fishcrazy

By the way here is the info I found on the bonded plate replacement gaskets from Transtec. It does state that the gaskets bonded to teh plate can be or should be removed and these installed with the snapin screens.

http://www.transtec.com/downloads/te.../gm/B94729.pdf

mrvedit

Good research Fishcrazy; so they are called bonded separator plates and started in some 2006 vehicles. Lets see what the dealer sends you. How much was it?

If you do go with separate plate and gaskets, we just use Transgel to keep it together during assembly. I check all the holes very carefully to make sure no gasket material is covering them, especially if I had drilled out the hole. The gaskets can shrink/expand a bit on the shelf. If needed, I make the gasket holes a bit bigger. That is probably why GM when to a bonded plate - to avoid any such hole alignment problems.

fishcrazy

I just picked it up and it is the bonded type plate that they sold me. Gaskets already bonded to it. It was $32 w/ tax. I am going to play with the other one to see how hard it is to get the gaskets off a little later on.

I have been thinking about rebuilding the transmission in the 95 Suburban after this one is finished. But I have been driving it while I am doing this rebuild and it runs fine. The only issue that it has is when you put it into reverse it takes about 2 or 3 seconds to actually engage. Thats a bit anoying but not that big a deal. Thing is it has 178000 miles on it. Gonna go sometime probably sooner rather than later.

mrvedit

Thanks Joecar.
And one more characteristic - taking your time. IMO a transmission rebuild is more error-prone than an engine rebuild because there are so many different parts including small and delicate ones. Just one cut seal, missing o-ring or upside down sprag will cause a failure. I don't think any of us ever forgot a connecting rod or tried to install it upside down when rebuilding an engine.

The beer was cooling in the fridge until I was done. I would suggest that order.

mrvedit

This is now mute, because I see you got the GM OEM bonded plate.

However, just for future or other people's reference...
In terms of whether to use the Transgo plate, you didn't answer my question of whether you have a 3-2 downshift solenoid. If you do, the Transgo plate will work; if not, it won't (without mods).

If desired, you can drill the GM plate to firm up the shifts. You DO NOT drill out the big holes with the check *****; its a few of the tiny holes, e.g. from .055 to .070. (You need the precision drill sizes.)

You are again overthinking this and its making you nervous.
Just give me a call if you are unsure of something.

fishcrazy

I do have the 3-2 solenoid in this valve body. I am sorry to have overlooked that response. I wa thinking more I guess of which plate may be better to use, the TransGo or the OEM. I am anxious to get this Escalade back in operation though and I saw the OEM availability as a bird in the hand and therefore went that way. It must not be a bad plate though as it has served me well in this 138k mile vehicle. I just wish I knew if I could have reused that plate. It looked pristine. Not a speck of the gasket on either side of the plate stuck to the VB or Case. I just dont want to take any chances since I dont know NOTHING!!!! hehe Thanks fo rthe help.... Jim

mrvedit

I'm not a trans pro, but I doubt any pro would reuse the gaskets after 138K miles. Look at how small some of the separator plate holes are - pin holes. If any part of the gasket had a pin hole leak, you would have very strange (crossleak) problems.
I didn't want you want you to take any chances either; hence the suggestion to get new parts.

What what I understand GM has about 50 different separator plates for the 4L60E. A shop would go crazy trying to stock that many. Hence they just use the Transgo Universal and redrill a few holes depending upon the application. So, the Transgo plate isn't any better, just more convenient for a shop.

fishcrazy

I am quite certain that this transmission has not seen the 138K that is on the odometer. I has been rebuilt since new and I have no idea when. I would like to know what the cause of the rebuild was though. But at any rate I would not reuse such an inexpensive part as this and risk having to remove the unit again to replace it.

TransGo does include language in their description of their product that says it is better than OEM. And that was something that got me wondering if I should go that route instead of OEM. I am not building a transmission to sit behind a lot of horsepower and I have some difficulty deciding what improvements are over the top for my needs. Hopefully this rebuild will give me many trouble free miles. At least I know for sure what is in there and that I have done everything that I could to determine what improvements I wanted to do with the help of you guys of coarse. You kept me pointed in the right direction. As I recall Ted, in one of your early posts (#28) before I got the transmission out of the vehicle you named the problem that I likely had and it was right. You may not clame to be a pro but you certainly know a lot about these GM transmissions.

mrvedit

The only way the Transgo plate is "better than OEM" is that it is a bit thicker and therefore should last longer when using steel check *****. Perhaps better than that is using Torlon ***** which greatly reduce the wear on the separator plate. I'm confident the OEM plate will last 100,000+ miles even with steel *****.

If you are inclined to experiment in this area, keep in mind that you DO NOT need to remove the trans to remove/fix/modify the valve body and related parts such as the accumulators.

Did you get new teflon rings installed on your stator shaft yet? I would not reuse the ones that came with the used pump you just bought.
BTW - I bought the non-ISS, newer-style non-O-ring pump from the same ebay vendor so that I have a spare, to study and answer future questions about. While also in excellent condition, the teflon rings were in bad shape.

fishcrazy

I have not had the teflon rings dealt with yet. Since I now have a spare stator shaft and a spare reverse input drum i was thinking of trying to do that myself. I have read that many are sucessful with the plastic wrap to slide them into place and to wrap them under band clamps to shrink them down. It doesnt seem hard to do. I have read that you need to soak them in warm water to help stretch them or that freezing them expands them enough that they just slip onto the shaft. Any truth to that.
The teflon rings on the new/old pump stator shaft looked fine but im going to replace them and the inner ones as well even though they look fine as well. I want all the life I can get out of this thing.

mrvedit

I would suggest getting new teflon rings on the input shaft too. If your local trans shop does it and lets you watch, you'll see how ridiculously easy it is with the right tools. Then use your spare stator shaft to keep it resized. For the stator shaft rings, you can use either use plastic wrap with band clamps or your spare reverse drum to keep it resized. IMO, it is more important to keep this one resized until the last few minutes.

Sorry, I have not tried to install the teflon rings myself yet; my local trans shop is too convenient.

fishcrazy

I just installed them. It was not too bad at all. I was terified all the time that i would break one which I found out is very possible when I removed the ones that were on the shaft. Bu tI didnt care as all I was attempting to do with them is to get a feel for the elasticity of the materal. I would say they are only elastic to the point of getting them on the diameter they are intended for and I would be afraid to go any larger. Here is how I did it. First I soaked them in some very hot water from the tap to make them more plyable. I used a very thin flexable cutting board(dont tell the wife I stole that). It was flexable enough that you could wrap it into a cylinder just thick enough to get the ID of the ring over the grove it is to live in. It looks like you have streched it too much after you get the cylinder out from behind it. But then I used a piece of harder plastic from a spray can top cut to the proper length so that when I tightened the band clamp on it it wold only tighten to but together at the proper fit that I wanted. It didnt take long to shrink them. I kept taking them off to see if they were ok and I put them on initially very loose and took them off and on to make sure thay were staying in their home. Seems to have worked out fine. Was not difficult at all. Hope the car runs when I am done! hehe

fishcrazy

I hoping to find the time to finish this rebuild off and install the unit back in the truck soon. I have yet to put the VB back on but that should not take long. I wonder is there any air testing I should do from the case side before I install the VB? Or should I just go ahead and install it after i get the pan back on it? How much fluid should I put in the torque converter prior to install if any. Is there an amount of fluid I should initially fill the pan with and what procedure should I use to make sure I dont damage the unit while it is starting its initial run. I would hate to ruin it at this point.

mrvedit

I assume you are doing an air test first of just the input drum, and then of the input drum, reverse drum and pump subassembly?

==> Remember the flat gasket between the pump and the case.

There really isn't much that can be tested on the case (without the VB) as there is no easy way to seal the case passages. There is something called an "air test plate" which is a thick plate that bolts to the case and has air test holes. It costs $75 on ebay. My local builder friend said he never felt a need for one; if the subassembly tests good, the flat gasket is new and the servo installed correctly, the trans should work.

After final assembly, if you have a way to turn the output shaft, e.g. with an old yoke, give it a test. It should turn fairly easily one way and about 3 times harder the other way. (In the hard direction, one of the sprags causes the entire input drum to turn and you feel the residual friction in the clutches.)

==> Remember the O-ring on the input shaft which seals the converter's TCC circuit.

You don't want to install the converter dry; pour ATF in slowly (let it sit), try to get at least half a quart in; a full quart is the recommended amount, but I find that much would slosh out when I install it.

Install the converter correctly! The converter tabs should be 1-1/8" below the edge of the bell housing. Measure it! Use a long rod or yard stick over the bell housing and make sure the converter tabs are 1-1/8" down from that. So many threads here about people obviously not measuring and ruining their trans.

Once you have the driveshaft and dipstick tube installed, you can add the first ATF. Since you did a complete rebuild, start with 8 quarts. That is enough for a safe start and warm up. After a minute, check the level; you will likely need to add 2 or 3 more quarts.

I always start and test with the wheels in the air, check the line pressure, etc. Note that the wheels will turn even in Neutral due to residual friction between the forward clutches.

Personally, I take it easy for the first fifty miles or so.

fishcrazy

I tested the input drum and reverse drum when I rebuilt them. I forgot to assemble them and test the assembly before I put them into the transmission so I do not have an air test of the teflon seals. Is there a way to test them at this point with the pump in? I am not overly concerned about them but hate that i dont have a air test on them. I did use the old pump stator shaft and old reverse input drum to resize them and they looked fine when I put them in the transmission housing. Maybe I am overworring again!

mrvedit

Assuming you installed new input shaft seals and kept them nicely resized, you should be good.
Did you rebuild the used pump you bought?
Remember the o-ring under the pump rotor?
Remember the yellow cone-shaped filter on the side of the pump?

I understand your worrying; its been a big project for you. It only takes me 2H to remove the trans and 3H to install it by myself; I know it took you much longer.

fishcrazy

I did rebuild the old pump I bought and remembered the filter. The veins all looked good so I did not replace them and the wear in the pump roter area was nill. The thing looked new. I put a vit of vaseline in the veins when I reinstalled but not much. I didnt think it would require that I fill it up with the stuff. Hope thats right. When I got all the mess back in the trans housing I turned the shaft and it does turn hard. Dont know if thats normal or not. Guess I will know soon enough though. If I hear a loud squeel when I crank it should I let it run a bit or shut it down. There I go preworring this again.

fishcrazy

Well I think today is the install day i fthe weather cooperates. Its been so long I hope I remember where all the electrical connections etc go and how they clamp up. Also going to have to get that exhaust pipe band clamp and figure out what if any goop that I should put on the connection under the band. Anyone have any experience with these? I guess what I am not looking forward to the most is getting those top bellhousing bolts. when I let the transmission jack down to tilt the unit down take them out I barely was able to get the deep socket on the bolt due to clearance. I picked up a shallower socket that may work better for getting it started back a bit easier. Any tips or tricks to keep the bolt in the socket so it doesnt fall out? I plan to try and hook up all the electrical I can before getting it jacked up so high so I have more room above it to work.

mantycarguy

To help you start the bellhousing bolts I use a piece of paper towel over the head of each bolt with a standard socket. This provides enough friction between the socket and the bolt to keep it from falling out as you fish the bolt into each opening. I have also made up a couple of alignment pins to help to get the trans into position. These are easy enough to make using a longer bolt of the same size,cutting the head off, and then cutting a slot into the end so that a screwdriver can be used to remove them when you are finished. Good luck on your project.

fishcrazy

Great ideas mantycarguy! Thats the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks a lot.