Need opinions on TH400 w/gear vendor vs 4L80e
08-10-2013, 07:31 PM
#1
Need opinions on TH400 w/gear vendor vs 4L80e The important detail to note is that I already have the built TH400, gear vendor, convertor, etc. This is for my LS1 swapped BMW that is now turbocharged. I'm tired of the 6 speed and want to go automatic.
The question is: Would the 4L80 be that much of an improvement over what I already have? My convertor was specifically built for a turbo car and should stall around 3k. Im concerned about the inability to lock the convertor on the TH400, is it that big of a deal? The 3500.00+ cost factor is a huge concern. I will be changing the TH400 from its current state of reverse manual valve body to a normal type full auto shift valve body. Aside from that, the combo is ready to go.
I'm looking for ideas and experiences of others that may have been in a similar situation.
The question is: Would the 4L80 be that much of an improvement over what I already have? My convertor was specifically built for a turbo car and should stall around 3k. Im concerned about the inability to lock the convertor on the TH400, is it that big of a deal? The 3500.00+ cost factor is a huge concern. I will be changing the TH400 from its current state of reverse manual valve body to a normal type full auto shift valve body. Aside from that, the combo is ready to go.
I'm looking for ideas and experiences of others that may have been in a similar situation.
10-15-2013, 03:18 PM
#3
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I would suggest you consider how far you intend to drive it. If you might go 50 miles non stop on a freeway, you will really appreciate the lockup convertor, as will the tranny, due to so much less heat being generated. If this is an "around town" car, that you would trailer to an out of town event, the 400 will be fine. Overdrive ratios from 4l80e to G.V. are almost identical, but the GV will shift in fairly hard under power and is not adjustable, where the '80 is tuneable. Another aspect is, do you have the computer to run the 80 now? Or will that be another additional purchase? I vote 80 but it depends....
10-15-2013, 04:39 PM
#4
I intend on driving it on road trips, they could be several hundred miles or more. I don't have the controller or any associated parts for the 4L80e. I'm starting from scratch if I go that direction.
The only reason I was considering the Gear Vendors was the O/D for long trips. The guy who built my convertor told me it was probably going to be too tight for my liking, I'm taking that to mean it won't slip as much as it should for optimum performance in the 1/4 mile. He usually builds converters for drag cars. I can't decide if the stall will be an issue once I go into O/D with a 3.15 rear gear ratio.
The only reason I was considering the Gear Vendors was the O/D for long trips. The guy who built my convertor told me it was probably going to be too tight for my liking, I'm taking that to mean it won't slip as much as it should for optimum performance in the 1/4 mile. He usually builds converters for drag cars. I can't decide if the stall will be an issue once I go into O/D with a 3.15 rear gear ratio.
10-16-2013, 08:28 AM
#5
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How are you running the ls1 motor? If it's a carb, you're starting from scratch, but if you have a 411 gm computer, I believe it can be flashed to operate the 4l80e, and you can get the trans harness to complete your existing and pin it in. Obviously, you could run a standalone for the trans, like a PCS.
I think your application would need the convertor clutch to keep it cool on these long trips, as any convertor will slip like crazy in overdrive with a 3.15 gear. I had a 2004r with a loose convertor in my car years ago, non-lockup, 5.13 gears, 27" tire, and if I drove it any distance, the trans fluid temp would climb like crazy on long hills, even if they weren't steep. Had a super deep fabricated pan, and a huge 28,000 gvw cooler, too. Held around 18 quarts, iirc. Less numerical gear will make the problem worse, as the convertor will slip much more. Car will be faster with the lockup convertor also, at the track, maybe even half a second quicker.
I own a gear vendors, it is in my 06 Cummins, 900 rwhp, 1600 ft lbs... I absolutely love it, but the truck still has the lockup convertor, so heat and slippage are no concern.
I think yours is the ultimate case for a lockup convertor, just my $.02.
I think your application would need the convertor clutch to keep it cool on these long trips, as any convertor will slip like crazy in overdrive with a 3.15 gear. I had a 2004r with a loose convertor in my car years ago, non-lockup, 5.13 gears, 27" tire, and if I drove it any distance, the trans fluid temp would climb like crazy on long hills, even if they weren't steep. Had a super deep fabricated pan, and a huge 28,000 gvw cooler, too. Held around 18 quarts, iirc. Less numerical gear will make the problem worse, as the convertor will slip much more. Car will be faster with the lockup convertor also, at the track, maybe even half a second quicker.
I own a gear vendors, it is in my 06 Cummins, 900 rwhp, 1600 ft lbs... I absolutely love it, but the truck still has the lockup convertor, so heat and slippage are no concern.
I think yours is the ultimate case for a lockup convertor, just my $.02.
01-03-2014, 08:01 PM
#6
Bumping this thread...
I'm running an aftermarket EFI system. The 80e controller would have to be purchased as well as a good convertor. I do plan on driving the car once in a while on a ~200 mile road trip, but it's mostly around town/ local. If I take it to an event it's getting trailered.
I just swapped to a 3.64 differential gear. The 3.15 was horrible with the 6 speed. The car drives better with the new gear set. I'm still not in love with the manual trans. The clutch is very aggressive. The chatter is typical, but I hate it! I'm also getting to the point that I want to put the car in drive and go. My very first car had a mild small block with an auto & decent stall convertor. It was a blast.
I'm running an aftermarket EFI system. The 80e controller would have to be purchased as well as a good convertor. I do plan on driving the car once in a while on a ~200 mile road trip, but it's mostly around town/ local. If I take it to an event it's getting trailered.
I just swapped to a 3.64 differential gear. The 3.15 was horrible with the 6 speed. The car drives better with the new gear set. I'm still not in love with the manual trans. The clutch is very aggressive. The chatter is typical, but I hate it! I'm also getting to the point that I want to put the car in drive and go. My very first car had a mild small block with an auto & decent stall convertor. It was a blast.
01-03-2014, 08:15 PM
#7
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Is the BMW a 3 series (E36 or E46)?
I suspect a 4L80E would be difficult to fit and would require major tunnel cutting. These cars don't have a lot of "wasted" space.
I suspect a 4L80E would be difficult to fit and would require major tunnel cutting. These cars don't have a lot of "wasted" space.
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01-03-2014, 10:17 PM
#9
Moderator
I suspect getting an LS1 to fit an E36 was more than a "little fab" work. Since you plan to going automatic, I assume you are not planning on BMWCCA HP- Driving (road course racing) events. So, just a fun car?
01-04-2014, 07:49 AM
#11
I guess its sort of a toss up bet a GV's and 80E-you already have a 400 and GV's, so money wise your there
switching to an 80E can be expensive, depending on if you build it your self
minus the trans, you have $700-800 for a good converter, $600-1000 for a good controller (unless your current ECU can control it) then add in the trans
one of the main things I like about the 80E is the lockup feature-cooler running trans, lower RPM,s
locking up the converter can be tricky if you have a large cam, like a stick car, you need the RPM's for a smooth engine
switching to an 80E can be expensive, depending on if you build it your self
minus the trans, you have $700-800 for a good converter, $600-1000 for a good controller (unless your current ECU can control it) then add in the trans
one of the main things I like about the 80E is the lockup feature-cooler running trans, lower RPM,s
locking up the converter can be tricky if you have a large cam, like a stick car, you need the RPM's for a smooth engine
