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Got the selector shaft out HERE. Ordered the deal and shaft was pretty cheap, even though maybe old one was fine.
New question, there's what appears to be a seal on the case side of where the pump sits. It looks to be pressed in with a metal ring on top. I cannot find anything in my ATSG manual nor searching the internet. I'd assume it should ideally be replaced?
Got the selector shaft out HERE. Ordered the deal and shaft was pretty cheap, even though maybe old one was fine.
New question, there's what appears to be a seal on the case side of where the pump sits. It looks to be pressed in with a metal ring on top. I cannot find anything in my ATSG manual nor searching the internet. I'd assume it should ideally be replaced?
that seal just pops out. If it’s not flattened and still pliable, you can reuse it. I do all the time and never had an issue. The last unit I delivered, which was two weeks ago, I reused it. It doesn’t leak. If you bought a master seal kit, it comes with it unless you bought an earlier model kit. You should have hit me up. I have shift shaft seals, shift shafts (there’s different lengths if you didn’t know) an those pump seals. You didn’t need to change the shift shaft unless it was bent or damaged. It’s time to start putting that thing together.
that seal just pops out. If it’s not flattened and still pliable, you can reuse it. I do all the time and never had an issue. The last unit I delivered, which was two weeks ago, I reused it. It doesn’t leak. If you bought a master seal kit, it comes with it unless you bought an earlier model kit. You should have hit me up. I have shift shaft seals, shift shafts (there’s different lengths if you didn’t know) an those pump seals. You didn’t need to change the shift shaft unless it was bent or damaged. It’s time to start putting that thing together.
Gosh I didn't even think about contacting you, I should have. I got dimensions on the seal and made sure to order same spec OEM one. Only thing with my shift shaft was somebody had ground it all up in a grinder or something but I don't think would affect anything (was near were linkage hooks up).
Slowly cleaning up the case. Need to get some more Dremel sanding attachments to get the old paint / grime off from the last build somebody did on that case. Then I have engine paint. I know I don't need to but really take pride in my work and enjoy making things look good too. I also want to do some light polishing / on the worm track. Then I can put together the inside of the case... and last module for rebuild is the valve body (which I've not touched yet).
I kind of putz on it when I get time in-between work but quickly find I need a tool or little part so sets my build back. Truck is my perpetual project but turning into a BEAST with all modifications I've done.
On another note, I could never find those 3/4 release springs to modify the factory springs for the 3/4 clutch pack. I have factory ones but Hillman part number to modify them was discontinued I searched all over the place but cannot find one of same spec / size.
I spoke with guy who spec'ed my kit. He said he has been building them w/o since 90's and never had an issue. Honestly, though I'd rest MUCH better having them installed, I can clearly see their purpose. If that check ball in case slides out of place it'll put pressure on that clutch pack and burn it up.
If you are talking about the boost/load springs, 10 per drum, Sonnax sells them, you can usually find them on ebay for around $12-$15/set. They pop out of the stamped steel holders. I'm assuming you have the old ones. Some sell them as a complete assembly with 2 springs, but they overcharge you for them, sometimes $5-$7 EACH (5 required)... go with just the springs if you still have the old ones.
After my case was clean (I used an assortment of wire brush wheels in a drill), I used a Fusion paint color that looks great, I think it's called Metallic Dark Metal...
It doesn't need a primer and bonds to everything, even plastic.
Bro, I’m slooow but I’ve built about 10 4l60’s since you started this project lol.
skip the polishing of the worm tracks. You are wasting your time. Plus you might get dust or compound in a crevice only to release it later in the fluid and wreck your bearings or bushings. It’s not needed.
If you are talking about the boost/load springs, 10 per drum, Sonnax sells them, you can usually find them on ebay for around $12-$15/set. They pop out of the stamped steel holders. I'm assuming you have the old ones. Some sell them as a complete assembly with 2 springs, but they overcharge you for them, sometimes $5-$7 EACH (5 required)... go with just the springs if you still have the old ones.
After my case was clean (I used an assortment of wire brush wheels in a drill), I used a Fusion paint color that looks great, I think it's called Metallic Dark Metal...
It doesn't need a primer and bonds to everything, even plastic.
I called sonnax, they said those are the same length as factory springs. my 3/4 clutch pack is taller. the factory spec springs wouldn't reach the pressure plate.
Bro, I’m slooow but I’ve built about 10 4l60’s since you started this project lol.
skip the polishing of the worm tracks. You are wasting your time. Plus you might get dust or compound in a crevice only to release it later in the fluid and wreck your bearings or bushings. It’s not needed.
Yeah, I bring a new meaning to slow haha... It is pretty well ready to throw together minus paint. I will leave worm track alone per your advice.
I called sonnax, they said those are the same length as factory springs. my 3/4 clutch pack is taller. the factory spec springs wouldn't reach the pressure plate.
Did they tell you that you need DIFFERENT springs? The only other springs may be the ones they include with their Smart-Tech drum. I installed them without comparing them to the originals and they were about an eighth of an inch proud of the drum, before screwing down the top plate. I don't know if this is because of the spring or the apply. Yes, they are the same but used springs are about an eighth shorter from use. Did they tell you what to buy?
Did they tell you that you need DIFFERENT springs? The only other springs may be the ones they include with their Smart-Tech drum. I installed them without comparing them to the originals and they were about an eighth of an inch proud of the drum, before screwing down the top plate. I don't know if this is because of the spring or the apply. Yes, they are the same but used springs are about an eighth shorter from use. Did they tell you what to buy?
This is a long thread (see previous replies on this topic quoted below). You can see below help I received as stock / factory springs are NOT long enough for my taller clutch stack up. I have BRAND new springs already. Frank suggested swapping out with a Hillman spring (they sell them at hardware stores). However, that part number is discontinued. I don't know what is a viable substitute and cannot find any springs that are same dimensions as discontinued part. I also called Sonnax, they don't make any springs longer than factory spec.
At this point, I'm going to just put it together unless somebody knows of another spring I can swap in those 3/4 clutch release retainers. Here's dimensions needed for spring 1-5/8" X 3/16"
Originally Posted by weinerschizel
Okay, moving on. I'm trying to final assemble the 3/4 clutch pack.
Clutches taller than 3/4 return springs
I ordered 3/4 return springs GM part number 8667424 HERE. The clutch / steel stack-up is taller than the springs (video HERE). They'll never do anything if installed. Is there a modification that needs done to these or different ones used?
PerformaBuilt video @ 28:00 HERE his clutch return springs are taller than mine. He mentions a mod to them, but not sure what mod?
After that he gets into clutch clearance when leads into my second question...
Clutch Clearancethis always throws me for a curve.
1. I am loading up the system when I push a feeler gauge in-between the lock ring and pressure plate. Is that a true measure? All the tutorials and manuals show to do it that way? I have no other way to measure the 3/4 clutch pack. With that spec is 20 to 35 thousands. I can squeeze 20 in there but not 35 so I presume that good?
2. I see a dummie check on clearance with PerformaBuilt video HERE @ 29:30. He spins a clutch, he also doesn't have any of them soaked in transmission fluid? I tried to spin one of mine, I'm not sure they spin quite as easily as in his video. I can spin one but if I try two it starts to spin the drum on my table.
Originally Posted by performabuilt
If one clutch tries to turn the drum your too tight it should not at all and should spin easy, One the springs that is a bit more complicated we actually use a taller spring, I can get you a hillman number for it but not till monday I am afraid, And no for the purposes of setting clearance IMO we do it dry.
I might get by shop this weekend sometime to check that number but I cannot say for sure ill be over that way,
As for your clearance the choices are a thinner steal, thinner plate or machine some off the plate on the lathe. Oter options are a thinner snap right, My preferred option is machine the top plate a little on the lathe but most don't have one of those around.
The clearance we use dry before installing the spring cages or air application is 20- 30 1/1000s It has worked very well for us for many years.
BTW I am not the guy in video that is Ryan I am Frank@PerformaBuilt
Originally Posted by weinerschizel
@performabuilt Hey Frank! Awesome to see you on here. We chatted (via email) before I started my build. You were referred to me by a several people over on YukonTahoeForm.com I have some build posts on there for the rest of my truck... Current 4L60E works but is bone stock 2001 w/ a mild cam in an LQ9. I think my band is going out (or an event concurrent with band apply) as I the knock sensor registers noise when it is applied. Hopefully can get this tuned up once I get a new transmission in. If you were in Arizona, I'd have paid you extra to watch you build this Building an automatic transmission has been on my bucket list since I was a kid so I didn't want to order one already done.
This has been REALLY interesting learning about these, with a little luck mine will at least turn when I'm done I've watched more build videos than I care to count, and Ryan's so much I nearly have it memorized. I read the ATSG manual and have another book I bought on the build. There's a LOT of stuff I notice isn't covered / questions I have had along the way all the generous builders on previous posts have helped out along the way. I also have no way without shop tools / vacuum system to completely validate my pump and valve body. Nor do I have a full test system minus putting in my truck so fingers crossed. Build has been awesome fun though.
I found this spring on the Hillman website HERE part #851515 Looks like their only 3/16" diameter compression spring (diameter of stock spring / pocket on retainer).
Did you use a thinner apply and pressure plate? Are you still using a #7 5-finger ring? Sorry I always mix up the names on these three...
I'm wondering the same.
If you're using a stock apply plate and stock pressure plate...I don't care if you have 6 or 10 clutches shoved in between...the distance between those 2 plates should work with stock springs
if you run a sonnax apply plate that is thinner or a thinner pressure plate...I can see you maybe having some issues
p.s. the springs aren't supposed to have a bunch of preload. They're just there to endure the apply plate moves with the apply fingers. so it doesn't "hang" and drag
Doesn't the Sonnax Smart-Tech drum require a longer spring? I thought that they increased the clutch count by moving the pressure plate closer to the end of the drum and that increased the distance between the apply plate and pressure plate. At least that was the way I did it when I modified my drum.
the apply plate is "stepped" to move the bottom clutch closer to the piston.
The pressure/reaction plate is actually thicker than stock options.
should be drop in...not requiring longer springs
the stock springs with 100k miles on them are usually clapp'd the heck out and not the correct length tho so they might appear too short
I am confused. We went over this above in the thread. Frank showed me how to modify the springs with a Hillman part number as I do not have a spec factory 3/4 clutch setup. I also have NEW clutch springs. I measured them and they didn't reach the top of the clutch pack. Maybe I'm doing something wrong measuring them but don't think so... I have a video of my stuff below:
Doesn't the Sonnax Smart-Tech drum require a longer spring? I thought that they increased the clutch count by moving the pressure plate closer to the end of the drum and that increased the distance between the apply plate and pressure plate. At least that was the way I did it when I modified my drum.
Maybe the guy I spoke to at Sonnax didn't know any better... So you used Sonnax 3/4 release springs and they were longer? They don't have specs for spring height on their website. Is partly why I called them.
you can't just measure the spring itself vs the distance between the apply and pressure plate.
Just install them and if you have to squeeze the pressure plate down against them just a tad to get the snap ring in...you'll know they're long enough
The calipers are a good tool but sometimes just a simple check like this is better
you can't just measure the spring itself vs the distance between the apply and pressure plate.
Just install them and if you have to squeeze the pressure plate down against them just a tad to get the snap ring in...you'll know they're long enough
The calipers are a good tool but sometimes just a simple check like this is better
So the springs float in the case between the apply and the pressure plates? I'd have thought they would reach both plates.
When I checked fitment the springs were not as tall as the clutch stackup.
Last edited by weinerschizel; Jan 5, 2022 at 10:37 AM.
I don't use the load release springs in my set ups.
I too am confused. We are talking about the 3-4 clutch set up in a Sonnax Smart-Tech Drum where the pressure/reaction plate bolts to the end of the drum aren’t we? Even with the stepped apply plate doesn’t that increase the distance between the two plates? I guess my confusion is, how you can add more clutches without going very thin with the clutches and steels, (which IIRC was one of Sonnax’s selling points with this drum) without increasing the distance between the two, thus requiring longer load springs.
I’m not questioning what is being said as true, just trying to understand what is going on. I have never used a Sonnax Smart-Tech Drum. My son has machined a few drums and made end caps for them that look like the Sonnax drum. We increased the distance between the two plates to add more clutch capacity and a stock length load release spring is not long enough.
you can't just measure the spring itself vs the distance between the apply and pressure plate.
Just install them and if you have to squeeze the pressure plate down against them just a tad to get the snap ring in...you'll know they're long enough
The calipers are a good tool but sometimes just a simple check like this is better
Sonnax Smart-Tech Drum does not use a snap ring, the plate bolts on.
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I searched all over the place but cannot find one of same spec / size.
Building an automatic transmission has been on my bucket list since I was a kid so I didn't want to order one already done.
I've watched more build videos than I care to count, and Ryan's so much I nearly have it memorized. I read the ATSG manual and have another book I bought on the build. There's a LOT of stuff I notice isn't covered / questions I have had along the way all the generous builders on previous posts have helped out along the way. I also have no way without shop tools / vacuum system to completely validate my pump and valve body. Nor do I have a full test system minus putting in my truck so fingers crossed. Build has been awesome fun though.
