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Awesome, thanks for the help. I'll buy new return springs. UPDATE: I looked at my kit and it came with 3-4 clutch spring kit from Transgo HERE I ordered new GM springs for clutch pistons HERE, HERE, and HERE so hopefully should be all new.... Bit confused about these style return springs though, HERE that go on outside of input drum. That Transo Kit says not to use those style if you had them to leave them out... I watched a video from Performabuilt though. He said to always make sure to use those. However, I don't recall them being in the transmission when I tore it down. It's a 2005 4L60E from a 4x4 truck.
I have the ATSG book for 4L60E on order. Hopefully arrives soon
Just wrecked my reverse drum piston lip seal *sigh* dang that's harder than bleep to get in. Got a piece of plastic to try and work it down on the sides but blepin thing still broke. Is there a good "trick" to get the reverse drum clutch lip seal in?
Should I use this input shaft seals? My kit came with cut seals... so you don't have to use a sizing tool. Not sure what to think. I couldn't figure out what he meat when he said the kit comes with figure 8 seals that don't require resizing.
Last edited by weinerschizel; Jul 19, 2021 at 11:04 AM.
Question 1: I was able to answer all my questions from my previous post, minus the seals. Should I use those split seals? They make me a bit nervous... Dana said he'd never had issue with them, however... I'd always be second guessing myself.
Question 2: Curious, I wonder if I should buy a new flexplate? I have a stock 5.3L flex plate. Looking at this one HERE from GM performance, or perhaps there's one a bit cheaper that would work... My final engine power level should be no more than 500 HP / 500 Ft Lbs.
Question 3: Also my kit didn't come with a servo pin. Should I use a new servo pin? If so which one? Sonnax makes an resizable pin HERE... Not sure if I get that one?
Question 4: Should I get a new input drum orifice? I got the 7CS clutch spring kit, manual HERE. Pages one and two show the orifice. I have the 3rd type... Kit didn't come with the new one... Bit confused. Maybe Dana removed it because I didn't need it. No idea, he's really REALLY hard to reach. Question 5: Also page three middle of page shows the 3-4 return springs that go along outside of case. I'm really confused about those. Some people say to NEVER remove them from the build. Why? Instructions here say to remove them.
Generally the order of preference for sealing-rings would be:
-Solid.
-Stepped-Cut (the Input-Shaft Seals that I can see in the Image).
-Scarf-Cut (the light-blue Seals in the Image).
-Split-Cut (two parallel Seal edges meeting).
There are exceptions to this, but overall applies.
The Solid Sealing-Rings are the best if you can install them correctly.
People have had very good luck with the Stepped-Cut Seals.
An SFI Flex-Plate is always a good cheap investment.
Measure your Servo clearance... if you need a longer Servo Apply-Pin, then purchase one.
Test the original Orifice... if it is not sealing, purchase an OEM one.
There is more debate about those Springs than I care to mention...
I do not use them, but use Kolene-Steels... and that works for me.
Another builder may have the opposite experience... Sorry.
3-4 Return Springs: awesome thanks. The TransGo instructions say not to use the 3-4 return springs, and I'm also using Kolene-Steels so probably doubly covered... I'm not entirely sure what the function of those return springs are? They help disengage the 3-4 clutch pack?
Forward Sprag: I'm rebuilding my forward sprag. Curious is it okay to lightly polish the races? They are smooth as silk (to finger) but have a couple stains / marks on them. I'd the idea to polish with 1000 grit, then 1500 grit (I also have 2000 grit and 3000 grit in my shop). Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MKu...ew?usp=sharing
The Sprag races should be perfectly smooth... you can wet-sand/ polish with high-number grit emery-paper as needed.
Those "Load-Release" Springs are intended to keep the Backing-Plate off of the 3-4 Clutches...
This is protection from centrifugal forces that try to apply the Clutches at higher RPM.
In theory, the "Load-Release" Springs could be very helpful in preventing unwanted apply...
Especially with very tight Clutch clearances.
On paper, they are great... in reality, the jury is still out.
I feel that they get incorrectly blamed for 3-4 Clutch burn-up...
With all the 3-4 Clutch hydraulics done correctly (little to NO leaks) and proper Clutch clearance...
There should be no 3-4 Clutch issues regardless of using the "Load-Release" Springs.
I personally always replace the original 3-4 Clutch Piston Return-Springs (Spring-Cage Assembly) with the TransGo Springs...
To prevent centrifugal apply.
Years ago ATSG and ATRA were recommending removing the "Load-Release" Springs...
Now many sources recommend going back to using them.
All I know, is that they do not make any difference at all... the way I build/ set-up my 3-4 Clutch Packs.
The way I build my 3-4 Clutch.
Interesting, I'm reading the ATSG book now. It says to not install the springs. From the sound of what you are saying they were introduced in design to account for looser tolerances (easier build) at factory which from back in the day when I was an engineer makes perfect sense
Curious do you prefer to run on the low, middle, or high side of the tolerances for the clutch packs?
Interesting, I'm reading the ATSG book now. It says to not install the springs. From the sound of what you are saying they were introduced in design to account for looser tolerances (easier build) at factory which from back in the day when I was an engineer makes perfect sense
Curious do you prefer to run on the low, middle, or high side of the tolerances for the clutch packs?
There is no single answer to this question.
Different Clutch Packs of different Transmissions will have different clearances for different reasons.
Some Clutch Packs should be looser to reduce drag...
and some should be tight for a particular timed event in order to complete a Shift.
Lastly, some Clutch Packs, it will not make a difference.
I finished taking apart my input drum and noticed a couple things which concerned me.
Input Drum Case: First the teeth, locks for steels, are a bit chewed up. Not sure if that is bad? Can be sanded down a bit? How much is too much?
Everything above forward clutch piston: was lightly rusted, which was wild. I don't know if I can still use that stuff? Is it typical to be corroded / oxidized? Video HERE
Bearing Puller: I was curious, I wonder if this 3 jaw puller would work to get the bearings out so I can change them.
The Input-Drums often become chewed-up (like yours) after a bad 3-4 Clutch failure.
I won't use an Input-Drum that looks that bad, as the aluminum can flake apart and cause damage.
I would ask Dana of PBA to send you a good used replacement (they are cheap).
Light rust can be fine as long as it is not on a sealing-surface.
That transmission was most likely rebuilt with rusty Parts...
The Components usually do not rust inside a working Unit, full of ATF.
Cores that sit outside in the rain, are usually rusted...
But you would see water in the Unit, when you disassemble it.
In the Video, you were holding the steel separator for the Forward Clutch Piston.
I would replace it, or spend the time to remove the rust...
So that the Forward Piston has a clean sealing surface.
Most all of the Bushings and be knocked-out.
Which Bushings did you plan to use a Puller on?
The Input-Drums often become chewed-up (like yours) after a bad 3-4 Clutch failure.
I won't use an Input-Drum that looks that bad, as the aluminum can flake apart and cause damage.
I would ask Dana of PBA to send you a good used replacement (they are cheap).
Light rust can be fine as long as it is not on a sealing-surface.
That transmission was most likely rebuilt with rusty Parts...
The Components usually do not rust inside a working Unit, full of ATF.
Cores that sit outside in the rain, are usually rusted...
But you would see water in the Unit, when you disassemble it.
In the Video, you were holding the steel separator for the Forward Clutch Piston.
I would replace it, or spend the time to remove the rust...
So that the Forward Piston has a clean sealing surface.
Most all of the Bushings and be knocked-out.
Which Bushings did you plan to use a Puller on?
Awesome thanks for the tips. Got lucky and found an input drum on eBay with all the pistons in it. Hopefully this one is rusted.
Wasn't for sure on best way to remove bushings. I will knock them out. I have tutorials but all of them so far just seem to assume a person knows best way to remove them haha
Last edited by weinerschizel; Jul 24, 2021 at 11:29 PM.
Awesome thanks for the tips. Got lucky and found an input drum on eBay with all the pistons in it. Hopefully this one is rusted.
Wasn't for sure on best way to remove bushings. I will knock them out. I have tutorials but all of them so far just seem to assume a person knows best way to remove them haha
Knock and/or cut the bushings out. But press the new ones in. Do not knock them in.
Also, if you need good quality used OEM parts, call Teal Automotive in Dunkirk, Indiana. Ask for Sharyl. This was a recommendation from Dana and she helped me tremendously with cherry used parts.
My local machine shop will press things in for me relatively cheaply..
Otherwise I have a bench mounted arbor press and a cheater bar.. Fairly cheap from import tool shops.
I will figure out a way to not pound the bushings in Thanks for that tip as I was going to *ahem* pound them in per several tutorials I watched (lots of bad information out there).
I am dry building the reverse input drum right now. Some questions have arisen. I think I know the answers but want to double check...
Wave steel: my kit came with a Raybestos wave steel. I tore down the transmission and it had a coned steel at bottom of clutch stack (closest piston). I presume I use the waved steel? That it serves the same purpose as a coned / Beveled steel? The tutorial that came in my kit doesn't talk about waved steels.
Steel Installation Direction: I have notes that say I have to align my steels in a special direction. I'm just curious as to why? Is it those holes in the steels need to line up?
I don't have a press... what do you recommend? Could I use a C-Clamp as a press?
Harbor Freight. You can pick up a nice press for $125 approx if not on sale.
Regarding the waved and belleville steel, I was told to use the waved over belleville due to the belleville has a potential to chew up the splines on the input drum.
Regarding aligning the dots, if Dana marked them and said to align them. Align them.
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