When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
is that a TG boost valve ? how do you feel about the sonnax BV ?
No the spring will not work with the TG and being its hardened steel to hard to turn down for spring seat, That particular one is new stock type but the sonnax valve also works fine with it ,And the Sonnax VB are fine In fact if i was a novice and did not know how to check the variuos issues of the VB aka vac test and or leak down test I would Likely use one if building my own with my additional mods of course.
I have tried to turn a spring seat on the TG boost valve but I think I need different bits as i cannot get a clean cut on it. Of course the stock and sonnax already have a suitable seat area for the spring.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Hey Frank, this spring is akin to just adding additional AFL pressure
Depending on spring rate, it will certainly add some pressure.
But boost valve diameter will still play a role in overall line pressure.
a stock boost vs a .490 or .500 will all yield different final line pressures.
Hey Frank, this spring is akin to just adding additional AFL pressure
Depending on spring rate, it will certainly add some pressure.
But boost valve diameter will still play a role in overall line pressure.
a stock boost vs a .490 or .500 will all yield different final line pressures.
Yes just raises AFL presure and yes varies with boost valve size but have found always over 200 psi max with any sized boost valve I have used, Just a cheap easy way to get higher WOT line thats pretty fool proof as they say . Works well in the 700r4 and 200r4 too just kinda pain to get valve back in with the spring in there, But some petrolium jelly and freezer makes that easy enough. But yes the max line will vary some by boost valve size i have found in a range of 210 to about 225 psi over the years but pretty good jump from 180 average without and generally yeilds about 80 psi at idle give or take.
But handy if in particular you are building for someone who does not have tuning available or capability along with readily avaiable. For instance finding anyone to tune LT1 93 94 95 96 cars is like pulling teeth "ASK ME HOW I KNOW" LOL .Course I have the software and can do my own trans end tuning no issue but my engine tuning capabilites and knowledge is extremely limited but most do not even have that.
Of course I am sure many other methods exist to do the same. Its just been an easy pretty consistent way to get what I was shooting for.
It is a pretty stiff little spring by the time fully compressed.
Just a simple little tip and trick.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; 01-15-2024 at 02:15 PM.
Hello
Excuse me, i have a 2007 1500 4.3 aut. silverado that broke because it ran with no oil and had it fixed since 6 months ago but now its making werid noises i don't like
the thing is that i friend of mine has a 2003 4.3 stick S10 that got impounded by police and planning not to get it back
That S10 used to be mine and has a rebuilt engine done in washington, very strong 5 gear pickup,
Would there be any issue or anything if i get it out just to change the engines between them?
I don't care about the S10 after, just want the engine and trans, and then throw everithing else away
This is a list of the min tools needed, Yes I know they are not all name brand high end but the list is for the do it yourselfer probably for a 1 time use . I get people who ask me what all is needed, So I located and makde a list with links. Some of the things I have used and use myself, Of course if you are a all the time builder some would want to be upgraded, But this is a good just starting out to see if i can starter list . You are going to need spring compressor tool this one works with everything
A set of picks from harbor freight, 15MM 13MM AND 10MM AND 8MM SOCKETS. t50plus bit i have these they are strong and work really well actually was pleasantly surprised
This IS about the absolute min level of tools you will require to do a build and these do not include reamer iF you have AFL issues or want to install SONNAX Converter regulator valve valve issues etc
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Checking conveter to flexplate gap ,
With converter fully seated and trans bolted up pry converter and flexplate away from each other , Measure the gap should be between 1/8th and 3/16th for 4L60E and min should be closer to 3/16 MAX of 4/16th 4L80E. But then you should make another measurement. With converter fully seated in trans pry flexplate towards trans and make sure still meets min gap. Engine thrust bearing travel does count in the numbers and should be considered.
If you find that you are under min you have two options, Correct thrust bearing issue or a bell shim like this one https://www.summitracing.com/parts/i...7gcWSdsY_n-llY to correct min spacing issue , they are rare but I have run into this a hand full of times over the years.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
you will get the "Performance" guy who is more worried about comfort and is anoyed by the downshift feel on the 3-2 coming to a stop which as mentioned while is ussually a moderate bump in some cases and conditions like I mentioned in my post can be a bit agressive.
re: the overrun mod.
I don't recall where i came across it, but, I read that the 'notching the servo cover' in the 2-4 servo, as instructed in the transgo shift kits, helps alleviate this. It allows much faster fluid exhaust and softens that bump. Is this a valid adjustment to address that bump?
I have one trans w/ the 2-3 shift valve with out the notching and the bump is quite aggressive and annoying. it has the sonnax shift kit.
My other truck I cut the cover and it certainly does feel less aggressive, however this is a whole separate transmission & truck, so it is not a back to back comparison. it has the transgo shift kit.
re: the overrun mod.
I don't recall where i came across it, but, I read that the 'notching the servo cover' in the 2-4 servo, as instructed in the transgo shift kits, helps alleviate this. It allows much faster fluid exhaust and softens that bump. Is this a valid adjustment to address that bump?
I have one trans w/ the 2-3 shift valve with out the notching and the bump is quite aggressive and annoying. it has the sonnax shift kit.
My other truck I cut the cover and it certainly does feel less aggressive, however this is a whole separate transmission & truck, so it is not a back to back comparison. it has the transgo shift kit.
The idea behind this is that it reduces the shock by eliminating hydro lock . However I have done a back to back comparison and honestly did not feel a difference either way.
I can tell you ways to help with the downshift feel however,
Many think its athe 2-1 it is not , It is the 3-2 you are feeling , Things you can do in tune are increase 3-2 SOLENOID duty cycle on the 0 throttle downshift. But best solution I have found is simply lower the 3-2 downshift point at 0 throttle. The lower it happens MPH wise the less you will feel it.
Also for me at least it seems the primary people who have uncomfortable downshift with this are using billet servos in particular ones with no accumulation." face/back size differential and or no cushion spring.
Some manufacturers of second servos claim accumulation because they keep the cushion spring but that is not true, The only accumulation they have is whatever little the return spring offers. So the sonnax or the vette servo preferred have the least shock of the servos I have seen. My preference is the corvette servo except in cars and trucks with extreme high HP.
Also using a 400/4l80e servo return spring from the intermediate band can help in place of the stock servo return , But with any equal sized face back servo (pancake style) with or without cushion you are going to get alot of that downshift clunk.
Additionally and I do not know enough about tuning to tell you how and the customer who did solve it did not share, But with super charged vehicals due to a vaccum drop to the map sensor they get a particulary harsh 3-2 with this mod or the sonnax valve.
The Vac drop happens during the downshift and causes a presure spike on the trans side. He did fix it . said was easy fix, Sadly though I did ask what he did, he did not respond with solution other than some change he made in the tune to do with the MAP sensor. But he did not go into detail.
Another thing I have considered is a weaker cushion spring. But you must be careful here as that travel and spring tension also figure in to your band clearance and servo travel.
Also a smaller 2nd feed hole can make a huge difference many people just make it way to big .092 to me is max for this one and .082 for a more compfortable upshift and to help mitigate this works well.
In my own car with .082 hole I still get a nice firm 1-2 but not tire chirping and the downshift with the mod is ony barley noticable. Of course I also have it happening at 5 mph at 0 throttle and am geared 3.08.
As for the notches they can not hurt but I do not do them in my own builds.
Hope some of this helps and sorry for any typos etc I did edit but I honestly Am not the best typist or Gramerist in the world by FAR LOL.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; 02-09-2024 at 11:02 AM.
Reason: attempt to fix errors
Just a little note, If you have a Triple disc converter and hear a semi rattling sound at idle that when under car or truck sounds like its coming from everywhere, This is NORMAL it is the plates in the converter. I remember when I first got my engine and trans back in my car, Thats noise freaked me out looking for it , Then I remembered this.
Just a note for anyone that hears this odd rattling noise.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
We have had endless discussions about the OEM 5-pinion versus 4-pinion planets. Some (many?) experienced builders have pointed out that the 5-pinion planets are unnecessary. I think that @vorteciroc is among those; perhaps he then can explain why GM even created the 5-pinion planets if they really have little benefit.
I've been in those discussions and to this day, the answer isn't clearly defined. @vorteciroc is quite adamant about the 5-pinions being not the way to go. I can appreciate his position on the subject. Others though have different opinions.
I for one spent the dollars and got 2 new 5-pinion planetaries from the General, and if they survived the fiasco that's the transmission currently (and still) on the bench, they'll go right back in the rotation. That said, at my modest power levels (sub 500 HP/TQ) it seems a non issue.
Decided to make this thread and see where it goes, This is open to all builders, Tech experts, engineers and anyone who just wants to learn and ask questions or disscuss various mods and ways of doing things.
Frank you've participated in my 4L60 thread. I'd posted a build sheet for that transmission. At the same time mine was getting built (and I use the term "built" loosely) we had a E version built as well.
That sheet is attached. It's not as in-depth as to the mods you get involved in but I'd appreciate your insight into that particular transmission spec. This list was created by the transmission owner.
Not all Transmission "Updates" are "Upgrades".
If you go through the Updates year by year in a Book like the ATSG Publishing...
Updates are done for multiple reasons:
-Changing a Design or Part to correcting a Problem/ Defect/ Issue.
-Changing a Design or Part to reduce the Cost of the Assembly.
-Changing a Design or Part for longer life or more power handling.
Not all Transmission "Updates" are "Upgrades".
If you go through the Updates year by year in a Book like the ATSG Publishing...
Updates are done for multiple reasons:
-Changing a Design or Part to correcting a Problem/ Defect/ Issue.
-Changing a Design or Part to reduce the Cost of the Assembly.
-Changing a Design or Part for longer life or more power handling.
The 5-pinion planets are a Cost reducing change.
I lived and breathed that ATSG Update book for months prior to putting together a spec.
The 5-pinion planetary thing caught me completely off guard though. One of my former racing buddies, who's a mechanical engineer, pushed the 5 pinion deal as, since he is a self declared "wise man", 5 is better than 4!
Anyway, as I mentioned, they're going back in to the new build unless they got mangled when the trans gave up.
If they 4 pinions are plenty strong, what was the sole reason for the 5's to be designed? Is the material for the 5's different than the 4?
Cost savings...
The materials used for the 5-pinion GM planets are inferior to the 4-pinion planets.
From older posts:
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
Regarding the Planetary gears:
-From a load distribution standpoint; if two planetary gears are being compared, with the only difference being the number of pinion gears (metallurgy, dimensions, and everything else is identical)...
then the planet with 5 pinion gears would be better at spreading/ distributing the load/ force placed upon it and be considered stronger.
-However the "4L60E family" 5 pinion planets are made of inferior metallurgy, and are over all weaker than the 4 pinion planets.
To try and compensate for the inferior metallurgy; we increased the mass/ material surrounding the pinion gears... However it was simply not enough.
Look at this image of a 4 pinion planet. Notice the space/ air/ open area around the pinion gears:
This is a good thing, as it better allows lubrication oil to move/ spread about.
Compare that to this image of a 5 pinion planet:
The open area (around the pinion gear) had to be reduced to try and bring back some strength over all to the planet.
This however slightly hurts the lubrication.
On the rear 5 pinion planetary gear; we were able to add some lube oil slots to slightly improve the lube to the pinion gears.
You will see the OEM 5 pinion planets crack/ break way before the 4 pinion models.
The aftermarket 5 pinion planets are even worse... Do NOT ever purchase these.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the 4 pinion planets... the only reason we actually made the 5 pinion gears was to save money (these parts were a cost cutting measure).
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
If everything else were identical... 5 pinion gears would be stronger.
But as I explained, the metallurgy/ casting is weaker... thus the planet as a whole is weaker.
You can use the 5 pinion planets... just not with high power.
I would switch to the 4 pinion planets in the 500 HP+ range... or if you have 4 pinion planets, just keep them.
The 4 pinion sets have survived over a year at 1,200+ rear wheel HP in one of my test vehicles... i can NOT say the same for the 5 pinion sets (I have broken the castings at less than half that power).
Last edited by vorteciroc; 02-11-2024 at 07:16 PM.
The only aspect of the 5-Pinion Rear Planet that I like...
Referred to here:
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
On the rear 5 pinion planetary gear; we were able to add some lube oil slots to slightly improve the lube to the pinion gears.
Shown in the Image below:
The other side:
Many of the Aftermarket Rear planets (Which are even worse quality) do NOT even have the Lubrication Windows:
But the Best Rear Planet was recently discussed in a Post by Maroonmonsterls1...
It started out in Late-1986 Corvettes, and went into Select-Performance Ordered 1987+ THM700-R4 Transmissions:
Originally Posted by MaroonMonsterLS1
Here's the best 4L60e rear planet ever produced
They're still available
Was working on a Corvette unit and reminded me of this old thread haha
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
That would be the "Hollow-Pin" and "Oil Slinger" Rear Planet!
But the Best Rear Planet was recently discussed in a Post by Maroonmonsterls1...
It started out in Late-1986 Corvettes, and went into Select-Performance Ordered 1987+ THM700-R4 Transmissions:
And to think the core that was mistakenly used for my 3rd gen f-body is a 91 Vette case. Could it be that those planetaries were tossed in favour of the 5-pinion that I spec'd?
Time and distance are the reasons why there's no recourse for me in that regard.
Great thread to all involved!
There have been people arguing back and forth about these Planets,and which were stronger... Yada,yada, yada.
So I Posted what I have Quoted below, just to aggravate People here (whom can't grasp that Less Pinion-Gears = More Power Handling in some situations):
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
If we are just going to be silly...
Here are Images of my 3-Pinion Planets:
So is everyone now going to tell me: "OMG no, don't use those... they will break so easily"?
Anyone want to take a guess at the estimated Power that those Planets deal with.
Note: Not one broken Part in this Transmission in over 10 Years.
There have been Engines making 5,000HP - 8,000HP moving Power through those Gear-Sets!
Well, I think we have all been thoroughly schooled now on the subject of 4-pinion versus 5-pinion planets. Thank you Vortec, MaroonMonster, Frank and others.
So, what are people thoughts on the Sonnax 2.84 ration planet? I have the earlier billet version and like the lower and closer ratios in my relatively light car.
(Speaking of planets, I still count Pluto as a planet, but this is the wrong forum for that discussion.)
01-07-2024, 12:08 PM
