reubone

Now that is cool...pun not intentional but now that I think about it, yeah pun intended hahaha. I still have the valve body off of mine so I am going to do this test. Thank you sir

FranksCustomTrans

Just be patient drilling , The case is pretty thick there and that bit is tiny cant use any force you just have to let it do its thing and have a steady hand. As I said that is the smallest bit size i have ever had sucess with, The hole would actualy be just as good a couple sizes smaller i just cant get any smaller to get through. Another method is to actually drill through with a larger bit the size of one of the orifice plugs from the pump or in my case the orifice useed for converter feed to solenoid and then brad case from inside and install that through hole from VB side works well of you have bare case and are not compfortable drilling a hole that tiny in case,
Also you want a light weight drill or better yet a drimel tool to drill the tiny hole is best.
I consider it a great mod as many do not realize even in the best of situations when a high RPM shift happens that drum spins a huge number of times while sliding on that band during apply and that equals alot of heat not to mention that due to way the band apply works it will also apply somewhat uneven tending to clamp first towards center.
Then add to that in 4th particularly towing the band can slip some at low throttle and presure with high weight and god forbid a WOT 4th shift with that huge ratio change all make for alot of heat which is why the drum and band have to deal with alot of heat.
Ideally I would love to see a band made with better support in apply and lug area to get a more even apply similar to the long bars the only C4 and C6 used back in the day but simply not enough room there.

FranksCustomTrans

Setting band clearance---
Ok I am not going to go into what that clearance should be as each builder has different ideas on that (I myself like it to be as close as possible but with no rubing pump installed)

But this is about methods, Ideally using the longer sonnax pin is IMO best and as I am noting more and more cases are leaking in the servo pin bore and they do address that with the teflon rings, Though I am looking for a better seal type because while they do improve the situation they do not totally seal it from observational test I have done, Or I may eventually get the sonnax boring tool and just start using the oversized pin they offer. "NOTE KEEP EYE OUT FOR THESE I FOUND ONE IN A CORE RECENTLY AND LUCKLY I AIR CHECK AS THE STOCK SIZE PIN REALLY REALLY LEAKS WITH THE OVERSIZED BORE"

But again this is about hows not whats,
Someone ask about flipping the stock 4th servo if they could not get the longer pin and yes this can be done , I have done it no issues in the past though not in any way a preferred method . But again theyre more to it. Using washers or flipping or even longer pin with the 4th servo still leaves something un-adressed (SECOND SERVO CLEARANCE/TRAVEL) Just setting the 4th travel does not mean the second will be correct even with the pin in particular with aftermarket servos.

You can have perfect 4th servo travel and still have way to much second this must be addressed separately. To do this leave 4th servo piston out and install servo assembly and check clearance with clip installed and ajust accordingly by adding washers between second servo and pin. Also before installing make sure cap. separator and second servo meet when placed together outside bore if needed use one of the transgo spacers or similar to take up any gap but not more than the gap. (this is with 4th servo still in place)

Again put all in bore and install clip and see what clearance you have and ajust accordingly (Again each has own ideas about this. Mine are based arround years of dyno time and tear down and the realization the band does indeed stretch a little and comform to the drum after a few applies and getting hot.)

This clearance has particular importance as the travel against the servo cushion spring plays into it also. So you have the Measured or observed clearance and the cushion spring travel to consider when figuring second servo travel to solid against band.

Once you have this set then you can reinstall the 4th servo and use spacers AKA washers if needed to ajust 4th travel which should IMO be 0 till hits the pin and washer but not more than.
Doing it this way will insure proper travel for both servos
As I stated each has own ideas on what that travel should be , To me it is as close as possible with 0 drag of band on drum.

Note with aftermarket 4th servos, the travel can be very critical and because they generally do not have the raised area under the 4th servo the actual travel they have before colliding with the spacer and second servo can be very very limited . I personally have always wondered why aftermarket servo manufacturers do not add or keep the raised area for this reason as it would make this setting much less critical. The superior servos are probaboly the worse offenders with this by design and any pancake style servo and its particularly bad with a superior / sonnax second/ fourth servo combination.

Just a tip for the day .

FranksCustomTrans

Good example today I was setting up band on a 700r4 with stock servo and original corvette GM servo, I started with the 4th servo got it perfect SONNAX 4TH then went to check the second had to add a 1/6th washer between it and the pin to make them equal in travel.
If you have ever watched the pin even with a pretty tight setup the travel when applied is a good distance. Then note how little actual travel for instance with the sonnax 4th servo or any flat backed servo. Again I wonder why they did / do not include the raised area of the stock servo to allow greater travel .

FranksCustomTrans

Not so much a tip or trick but I was messing arround I needed three rev input drums. One i had I was able to turn finish on lathe looks great just a couple 1000s but then I also bought a GM one and some aftermarket one as thats what supplier had, Of note the GM and the Aftermarket appear in every way to be identical just one says geniuine GM on the box,
But what I noticed also that the walls of both at least visually are thinner than the stock drum I turned? I will look for my inside mic later to get exact measurements.
Obviouisly they both work as I have used both in the past But just thought interesting the once from the trans was thicker and I cheched against some actually bad drums I have to and they also appear to be thicker. Never really seen any issues with rev drums unless they get hot just something I noted today.

67LSX454

I haven't followed this thread in it's entirety as a lot of it is well beyond anything I'd attempt (if only for the reason that I greatly dislike doing transmission changes on my back in the driveway).
That said, I came across this and I don't believe it's been mentioned. Although it would be no surprise if I missed it in discussion.
The Sonnax 6-pinion reduced 1st gear input carrier.

https://www.sonnax.com/parts/3734-2-...ut-carrier-kit

bbond105

It hasn't been mentioned because there is very little if any proof that the Sonnax 6 pinion gear set makes any improvement in transmission efficiency or ETs at the track. For the price most people want to be able to see and feel a difference.

FranksCustomTrans

I have never driven a car before and after the swap though I have installed many for people. responses have been mixed. Those with the lowest gear 4.11 seem to like them best cause they can hold out first a little longer , Others say they noticed little difference . I think it would be a more popular mod if it could make ratios more like the TH350 3.06 TO 2.84 Just is not that big a difference in my eyes. Always wondered why no one ever tried making TH350 ratios for the 60e since similar dsign for the front and rear planets , Probably not cost effective as to get those ratios you would have to change out both planets . Also woudl have dramatic effect on overdrive but I am not good enough at the math to figure out where you would end up.
But for higher geared cars like my impala ss with 3.08 rear the 60e stock ratios work out rather well to get a boat moving.

FranksCustomTrans

For any builders or do it yourselfers out there, I have recently gotten a few corvette servos that came with the rings. If you use these please check the gap as they have been cut wrong and actually have a gap. I replaced with ones from rebuild kit as I always use a full rebuild kit rather than pieces since in fact I compared and buying the whole kit is actually cheaper than buying all the little parts even if it means end up with many extra bits for different styles and years,
(ANYONE NEED A CRAP LOAD OF STOCK 3-4 STEELS AND FRICTIONS? )

reubone

(ANYONE NEED A CRAP LOAD OF STOCK 3-4 STEELS AND FRICTIONS? )[/QUOTE]

Yes

FranksCustomTrans

Little follow up on band clearance, For me ideally with the OD cap against "divider" of the servo the actual overdrive servo should contact but not press the pin washer clip. Some use the transgo spacer to take up the gap between the cap and Divider however that does not set the OD servo to pin gap and while will give impression of a solid servo set up , In fact it just leaves more travel distance on the second servo before it contacts pin.
In an ideal set you with all together, you want both servos contacting the pin with no gap between the 4th servo cap and the divider,
This is particularly important with any flat bottomed 4th servo as with these total travel is very limited before it collides with the second servo. I have even considered not using aftermarket 4th servos over this because over time as band stretches and wears, the pin travel will exceed the servos travel capability and ultimately start hitting the second servo and cause 4th gear slip and band burning.
Also note when using the superior second servo with the sonnax. While it can be set up to work with the right washer and tight band clearance . The only proper way to use this combo is to machine the divider center section down to provide more travel , This would be true of any flat bottom 4th servo.
Even with the stock 2nd servo it is problematic , Ideally the 4th servos should be made with the small rise like the stock 4th servo to deal with this issue but none do it for some reason. I actually have in some cases gone to the trouble of machining the stock second servo and divider to fix this and moving the second inner ring down a bit to accommodate.
The only actual reason I really even use the aftermarket 4th servos is people like them and they look nice otherwise unless someone plans to shift WOT to 4th (not the best idea with a 30 percent gear change) or is doing very heavy pulling / towing in OD 4TH GEAR they are basically IMO pointless.

Jamesv

What is the low reverse clutch mod that you mentioned on your build list for different stage trans?

FranksCustomTrans

It turns on the low/rev clutch in D3 position first gear. Can also be set up to do so in OD position but not advised except in plow vehicles as downshifts coming to a stop can be rather brutal.
But in very extreme power levels D3 racing and in plow vehicle's here constant R TO D TO R TO D happens it can help protect the low roller, I have only used it 2x in performance one was a 1200 rwho vet that kept exploding the low roller on launch and it did fix it . And one a few plow trucks as they are also well known to kill the low roller with the constant fwd/rev shifts usually without coming to complete stop. I have not posted method as it is really something anyone should do except in these type extreme situations as I said the downshift coming to a stop from coast is pretty brutal when accompanied with the ft overrun mod which logically would be used with it .

Jamesv

would this be of benefit for wot shifts into overdrive?

FranksCustomTrans

No as the weak link in that shift is the band and servo holding ability accompanied with the huge ratio jump. The best you can do there is WIDE BAND on a FLAT DRUM with a SONNAX DUAL 4TH SERVO , LARGE FEED HOLE, BLOCKED 4TH ACCUM and make sure in the tune the shift pressure for 4th is maxed.
The other weak link is the 3-4 clutch holding though not as much so as it is on the 2-3 shift but it does have to hold the pull. The 3-4 WOT shift is quite a strain on all because at very high speeds the force against the car or truck is similar to carrying an extremely heavy load do to wind resistance.
Very few reasons anyone would need to make this shift unless geared way to low in the rear of well extreme high speed road racing.

FranksCustomTrans

Follow up on this, Just did first change, Have say been overall happy with it, Light oil and debris float to top easily syphoned off from time to time, heavy stuff settles to bottom and magnets. Clean up easy, Hands cleaner, better skin, much less smell, After 6 months of use didn't have to add more rustlick but did have to add water and simple green a few times mostly due to evaporation
Highly suggest move .Note I still do not use it to clean planets , Though I did do some test with a couple old planets on bench and showed no issues , My only reasoning is how to get water out of pinion bearings of planets. Heating would work Im sure but to much hassle so they get the brake cleaner rinse, (miss the days of starting fluid being cheap I hate brake cleaner)
But overall good system way better than mineral spirits.

FranksCustomTrans

SOON some notes on chinnesum OD and Corvette servos with photos,
The short is the copy of the sonnax 4th servo is in some ways IMO better as the apply area aluminum is actually thicker but caution they come with wrong seals that swell in trans fluid (Not I don't use these servos just bought to see how they were made)

Now honestly the CORVETTE servo copy well seems to me a better part than GM its better machined and on my press took considerable more pressure to break than the GM corvette servo. Noted issues they also came with teflon rings cut to short left gap but stock rings from rebuild kit fixes that.

In both cases not enough difference in price really to consider changing but wanted to check them out.

And more to come , this thread will continue to grow and as always others contributions are greatly appreciated.

vorteciroc

Here is an Image Frank Posted...
Wow! The amount of stuff that my Brain simply does NOT register these days is just endless!


I very much like that Frank Cut/ Added a Top O-Ring Groove and O-ring to the Boost Valve Sleeve (Made from a GM Boost Valve and Sleeve) Shown below:



Sonnax Version for Comparison:



Also it looks as if Frank used Hydrogenated Viton O-Rings (HNBR/ Hydrogenated Nitrile ButadieneRubber) most often used in Automotive Air-Conditioning Systems.
Maybe He can Comment on the Material/ Use of, and Theory in this situation.

Frank often has all of these small very Interesting Ideas that He shows us!

vorteciroc

While I would not go about it in the same manor, I see where some applications would have a more constant, and higher elevated Boost Pressure Circuit.

I am interested in why He chose to do it this way instead of doing so with Hydraulic Pressure.
However the simple answer would be that this method (Spring on Opposite End of Valve)...
Is very easily reversible, and is done without any Permanent Modifications/ Drilling Etc.

So yet again,I Like It!

FranksCustomTrans

Yes I try and make all my mods easily reversable and not something others who might rebuild in the future would necessarily have to figure out or even understand ..