FranksCustomTrans

I still see this posted all over and the trans does get such a bad rap. Mostly undeserved. The 4L60E is likely the most used GM trans in history and certainly if you include The 700R4. I HAVE Built and seen them built for 1000 plus HP applications over the years and hold just fine. Today parts and tech exist to make them handle pretty much any street/strip race application. But even baring that a well cared for not abused stock 4L60E can go 200k miles and more I have torn down units with 300k on them that were actually in decent shape, My own IMPALA SS 1995 60E when I tore it down with over 200k miles original literally looked like new with the original friction's and the only notable wear was the 3-4 and no burning the friction material had just worn enough to open the clearance up considerable but in every other aspect it literally looked like brand new inside . Top to bottom bushings and all. I did not tear it down for any issue but rather as part of a total rebuild of the drive trans and engine when I bought the car.

Yet people still give it a bad rap , I think mostly because its in the car and they buy one build and engine with higher HP and fully expect that tired 60. Likely not even well serviced and expect it to just work or they throw a stall in and think all good then BOOM 4LSLIPPYE. And because they are so very many of them it seems they are junk which is far from the truth.

Then you get the just go to the Junk yard and get a 4L80E and put a shift kit in it and go. Man most all the 80E I see now days are worn slap out as they should be. They have been out of production since 2013 I think. They are generally from work vehicles that due to need and time are generally poorly serviced and almost all need a forward. direct drum and center support along with many times a pump. Always need bushings complete. Time you buy one build it and adapt this heavier power robbing and to me rather crappy gear ratio trans to your car or truck. You could have had a nicely built 4L60E.

You really would be amazed at the people I speak to who regret doing the swap when done. Not for durability reasons but the feel and performance of it they then find they need to regear, Rethink stalls everything to get back to where they were.

A guy I spoke to the other day had just completed the swap , He had purchase the same stall he had with the 60E and still had same rear ratio and was saying what a DOG his tuck had become. But he had to much money in it to turn back (Was a 4X4 ) and called me for advice (I didn't build his trans but he said was working fine) He told me he was running a 3000 stall triple disc like he had in the 60e and the same ratio I think he said 342s with some big wheels and tires and wanted me to suggest a gear ratio that would get him closer to the performance he felt with the 60E . I did some figuring and we determined to get the same off the line feel he was going to have to go to 456 gears and we also determined (its a daily driver) 20 miles each way to work and back , His fuel usage was going to double. (It was already a gas guzzler)
So all in all with the expense of the swap, the expense of the converter change, the expense of the rear end ratios, Then add in the extra fuel cost to drive it, He could have bought and installed a top line 60E and came out ahead in every way.

He also determined his fun to drive daily was now relegated to a Weekend warrior and driving it daily to and from work would not longer be cost wise practical so now he can not only not enjoy his "Baby" as he called it . But was going to have to purchase another vehicle to use for work travel yet another expense of this swap.

In summary of this Rant, People considering this swap should take all of this into consideration. The grass is not always greener and this swap is many times in the end more expensive all in considered than just having a high end 4l60/65/70 e Built to start with.

bbond105

I think a lot of the bad rap the 4L60 family gets is from internet Parrots just repeating what they had read somewhere that someone else is repeating what they had heard. Also, a lot of rebuilders would install a seal kit, frictions and steels and call it good. A cheap rebuild is just not going to work with this trans. It took me several tries to get the trans in my f-body to live before I figured out what it takes to make one last with 450 wheel hp.

Full Power

You have made the claim that a 4.56 ring and pinion ratio will "DOUBLE" your client's fuel consumption. I do not believe you.

gametech

iTrader: (1)

Last 4l80 swap I did was taking into account the 3 4l60 output shafts that snapped launching a 6000lb awd truck under boost.

Finkledbody

Agreed, 4l60e is a great transmission that has got a bad rep from parroting.

You read all that and that’s what you got out of it? Ya just had to find something to argue about. Lol

Y2K_Frenzy

What’s the price gap between a “built” 60e and a standard 80e swap?

TrendSetter

im just finishing my first 60e diy build and it seems like theres a never ending list of parts you need to buy compared to the several 80s ive done that basically need rollerized rear, rollerized/hardned forward hub and maybe hard input shaft and go.

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

No one cares.

Y2K_Frenzy

So if you were selling one you’d rather sell a “built” 60e? 😂

cadivette

iTrader: (1)

60e has its place. I use them in most of my swaps with little problems. Heavy vehicles and towing applications are another story. I've not had a lot of luck towing regularly with a 60e, never had them last much more than 50k miles. On the other hand the last 80e I rebuilt for a tow rig had 312k miles, still worked, just lost overdrive.

FranksCustomTrans

Believe what you like, And its not a claim its an estimate going from a low 3 something ratio to 4.56 is gonna increase the Rs alot and will make it drink a good but more, At least that is over the years been my own experience, I remember when I was attending school years ago 40 miles from home . During the school year I would swap to 2.73 but during the summer ran 4.11 and they was a huge difference in fuel consumption that much i do know, Though the car was much more fun with the 4.11s

FranksCustomTrans

Actually I only do the 80e locally and could care less on building ether The 80E is generally less expensive for me to build with a larger overall profit. I was just giving my thoughts and opinions based in this experience with this one person (not a customer) Just someone wanting advice on how to make his newly installed 80e feel more like his 60e used to in the truck which got me to thinking of previous interaction with people after the swap so made a post of my thoughts in the matter. He actually got the trans from a company I have beemn associated with. And it works just fine.
As a general rule the 80e is more profitable overall to build as people will automatically pay more with no questions and usually less actual work and mods to make of the two.
Each trans has its purpose and use. I was just commenting on the always popping in (swap to 4l80e people) when most cases it's not needed and many times all things are not considered when doing the swap. So I was giving people food for thought.

FranksCustomTrans

You would have to figure a few different things and it would vary Just for the swap. figure trans, rebuild, converter, wiring changes, segment swap and a bit more if 4x4 then if you want same overall feel down low either change first gear ratio 1k there alone of rear end ratio or ratios if 4x4. I would say all in most times a built 60e would be lower cost overall. But like I said would depend on your final goal.

FranksCustomTrans

They is always a place where the swap makes sense , 6000lbs and a high HP TORQUE boosted Application sure. Just saying for most it's not necessary when it comes to those always and forever parroting 4L80E SWAP over and over.
And was giving food for thought in all of the swap things to consider.

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

The reputation has been earned but there are many factors. The biggest one I saw was a simultaneous move from SBC, lower RPM engines, to higher HP/RPM engines (more heat) WHILE implementing cost cutting measures on the 60e. Specifically, GM stopped heat treating parts like the sun shells in the 60es as they were increasing power and weight. Combine this with customer abuse and the fact that most people never service or flush their transmissions, and you get what we got. Properly chosen and built for the app, they are fine...but most people don't do either.

Kfxguy

iTrader: (1)

The 4l60 has its place. It has a bad wrap mostly from tuners unknowingly disabling torque management completely and/or inept builders. I wouldn't specifically recommend one for a 1000hp build, especially a truck, but it can be made to hold a good amount of power.

Most people don't realize when going to an 80e, they now have to spin about 80lbs (i'm just guesstimating) more rotating mass from a trans thats a good bit heavier.

-I've never weighed either. I know a 4l80 is ALOT heavier when picking either up. I tried to look it up but I find conflicting info (internet as usual) one yahoo said the 80e was only 20-30lbs heavier which i know better than that!