ssmoov1

iTrader: (2)

To get a nice firm lockup in 4th (SS4000)would this be achieved by taking out the check ball at the end of the input shaft? I searched for for some info but couldn't find anything.Would this be a good or bad idea?Couldn't get it right with tuning so I am thinking of going with the trans-go kit while I already have the trans out.

Joe

2001 SS Convertible

Rock-On

iTrader: (-2)

Hey Joe , pull that plug out and you'll have a aggressive lock up ..one that you'll truely feel, adding a transgo kit will help this unit, you can't go wrong. I hope this helps ...Dave

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

Wondering about this checkball deal, we elected not
to go there last time the trans was out but I'm
wondering what the down side would be, whether
this nets you more holding pressure or just a more
abrupt apply, whether you can go back or is this
a "one way" mod, etc.?

Rock-On

iTrader: (-2)

Hey it doesn't increase pressure, it simply applys faster, Kinda like this. Fillin a bucket with a hose or a fire hose which one fills faster.....no brainer right.with the check ball and capsual both missing there is no restriction. There are two differant types of capsuals, one with two holes(early 700r4) and one with three(late 700r4/4l6oe)the three holes (leaving the capsual in and removing the ball) will fill faster than the two hole, and the capsual and ball removed will fill the fastest.The faster the fill the harder the apply (less slipping / cooler).As far as going back you can mix or match try it the three ways mentioned above, or just leave it alone. We run them without, it works well for us with very little complaints. I hope this helps... Dave

I was just reminded by one of my techs that there were three capsuales, the earliest had only one hole ...hummm was was Gm doing adding all these hole??? Think they were onto something??

ssmoov1

iTrader: (2)

Thanks fellas.That was the answer I was looking for and then some.

Joe

2001 SS Convertible

ramairws6

iTrader: (33)

I was just waundering why anyone would want such a aggressive hit on lockup?! This surely would destroy the clutch material in the convertor alot faster, would'nt you think? Not sure myself but a tranny builder that I have discussed this with thinks that by removing these components all the way your just looking for trouble. Instead of removing the parts mentioned,(ball and capsul, there is a machined grove in there to let the fluid drain off for faster apply, he just machines(or files) another grove in there(where the ball seats) for faster bleed off. He says this gives faster apply, yet not so aggressive. Just a thought? What do you think about this Dave? Traver

jxaxsxoxn

iTrader: (2)

I have a transgo kit, no tuning to apply pressure, it has the check ball untouched.
TCC apply on my car is more firm than the fourth gear shift. I even have the fourth accumulator blocked.

As far as taking it out completly I would say only for a converter designed to apply under power, in other words one that can take a beating.

TeamTripp

My rule of thumb has been stock 12" converters get the checkball left untouched. Small diamter converters such as the 9.5" get the checkball removed due to the smaller lock-up surface. Both examples get the updated TransGo valve eliminating the PWM feature.

Rock-On

iTrader: (-2)

Justs look at this, I agree with what Team tripp has said, were going from a 13" to a 9.5 inch apply area we want as little slip as we can get.

GM in there stock setting want these converters to slip as they lock up thus provide a long smooth apply, so it isn't noticeable to the daliy driver (they get less complaints).

We in the performance market want a defined apply, we at rock-on want a un restricted, aggressive, on/off apply. Your clutch life is longer. It'll also creates less heat.

I'd like to add that all torque converters are designed to lock up under power, and we are not a big fan of blocked accumulation, This transmission works a whole lot better with accumulation. (IMHO) I hope this helps Traver

jxaxsxoxn

iTrader: (2)

I was told by at least two big name (as in not local) builders that the 4th accumulator is the only one that can be blocked in this trans. I really didn't see much difference with it blocked. Is there any reason to not block it? I used the idea from a 700 2&3 kit.

So the TCC ball and capsule effects fluid flow to the tcc and not just apply feel?

TeamTripp

Its not changing the fluid flow TO the converter, but its controling how fast fluid from the other side of the lockup piston can exhaust. If you slow down the exhuast rate of release fluid, the piston will apply slowly. It operates similar to the 1-2 accumulator piston. We vary shift feel with engine load by changing the exhuast rate of accumulator fluid on the other side of the piston.

Rock-On

iTrader: (-2)

Hey , I guess it pretty much boils down to some guys block accumulation, others don't.(big name, small name, any name aside)... I'm not takeing a stand and saying it's not right, all I'm saying is we don't do it, there are several reasons for this most of which has to deal with apply feel and consistancy. We also use this for a pressure probe spot for the 3/4 clutch... and if we'd block it we couldn't test it! We like testing **** here, just something we do to continue our research..... Also we've found that the # 9 capsual acts as a restriction, slowing converter clutch apply... Again it's something that we do, we've had tremendous success with it... It's just a matter of choice....... you know,.......... what ever floats your boat thats all I'm saying....hope this helps ...Dave

ramairws6

iTrader: (33)

Thanks for everyone and anyone who chimmed in here! Always good to see a different angle from a different builder. Like Dave said, to each his own I guess. Let's here some more about this subject from some others. Traver

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

I think the clutch durability has two ends to it.
There is the wear durability, from repeated slow
apply & slip/scrub, and there is the "impact
toughness" from a sharp apply with some load
behind it. There are a bunch of clutch systems
out there as well as clutch sizes, and some are
chosen because they tolerate street-duty slip
well (but may not lock up under big power)
while others will take hard punishment but
squeal/chatter badly when treated gently.

How you'd know which one you've got, and
whether she wants wined and dined, or cut
right to the spanking, I guess is the trick.

1QUIKWS6

iTrader: (61)

I'm kinda partial to cutting right to the spanking myself

Good to see Dave from Rock-On here as a sponsor - members will definitely benefit from his extensive tranny knowledge and built 4L60E's - as well as his new 4L80E's!

-Jay-