Best Components To Complement a Torque Converter
12-28-2005, 07:57 PM
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Best Components To Complement a Torque Converter Trans go Shift kit, 24k BM Cooler, Valvoline ATF, anything else I'm missing?
PS... Would a 4000 stall be to much for a 2.73 on the street? I'll be driving w/out heads and cams for about a year.
PS... Would a 4000 stall be to much for a 2.73 on the street? I'll be driving w/out heads and cams for about a year.
12-29-2005, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NICKZ28
I'd leave the shift kit out, especially for the 4L60E. I'd suggest a cooler, gears, and slicks...nothing more.
yeah i was thinking about 3.42's at some point, what are the reasons for the shiftkit not going good with this setup?
12-29-2005, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by foxtrotter
yeah i was thinking about 3.42's at some point, what are the reasons for the shiftkit not going good with this setup?
12-29-2005, 05:32 PM
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12-29-2005, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Joel_SS
Careful with playing with the line pressure, it can svrew up the tranny..
12-29-2005, 10:12 PM
#9
Originally Posted by NICKZ28
I'd leave the shift kit out, especially for the 4L60E. I'd suggest a cooler, gears, and slicks...nothing more.
12-29-2005, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RevGTO
Have you ever heard this story: "Installed a converter and my 3-4 clutch pack burned up"? Or how about this one: "Installed a converter and I keep hitting the rev limiter on the 2-3 shift"? Some people skip the shift kit and have no problems. Many others who do could have avoided them, plus enjoyed nice crisp shifts, if they had installed the Transgo. Don't leave home without one.
12-29-2005, 11:08 PM
#11
Originally Posted by NICKZ28
All that can be taken care of w/ computer tuning. I have nice crisp shifts w/o a shift kit. My shift points are also set. All w/ LS1edit. You shouldnt put a shift kit in a computer controlled trans.
12-29-2005, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RevGTO
Wrong answer. There are some things computer tuning can do, there are others it cannot. That's why I used both tuning and a shift kit on my trans. The computer cannot make up for the smaller physical size of an aftermarket converter and the resultant reduction in fluid output - which impacts both shift quality and clutch life. It can't compensate completely for the smaller lock-up clutch. Electronics can do a lot, but they can't overcome all the effects of a smaller hi-stall converter.
12-30-2005, 12:20 AM
#13
Originally Posted by NICKZ28
Yeah, ok. I don't think you really understand what you're saying. Have you ever seen the tables you can edit through tuning? For just the transmission alone?
12-30-2005, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RevGTO
Or maybe you don't understand what I'm saying. Yes, although I have not edited in all the transmission tables by any means, HP Tuners has made as big of an improvement to my tranny performance as the shift kit. But for example, in the case of the lock-up clutch, messing with force motor tables can give you as much apply pressure as the PWM is capable of. The redesigned TCC valve in the Transgo kit by virtue of its design eliminates PWM and is capable of a more forceful direct application, resulting in less potential slippage. For another example, why does the Transgo kit call for increasing the diameter of the feed holes in the separator plate? To increase fluid flow to the clutch packs. Yes, tuning can do many things, but you're still dealing with a physical restriction that, in the case of an aftermarket converter, tuning alone may not be able to overcome. So bottom line: while a shift kit cannot do everything, the statement that "you shouldn't put a shift kit in an electronically controlled trans" is way off base.
12-30-2005, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RevGTO
Or maybe you don't understand what I'm saying. Yes, although I have not edited in all the transmission tables by any means, HP Tuners has made as big of an improvement to my tranny performance as the shift kit. But for example, in the case of the lock-up clutch, messing with force motor tables can give you as much apply pressure as the PWM is capable of. The redesigned TCC valve in the Transgo kit by virtue of its design eliminates PWM and is capable of a more forceful direct application, resulting in less potential slippage. For another example, why does the Transgo kit call for increasing the diameter of the feed holes in the separator plate? To increase fluid flow to the clutch packs. Yes, tuning can do many things, but you're still dealing with a physical restriction that, in the case of an aftermarket converter, tuning alone may not be able to overcome. So bottom line: while a shift kit cannot do everything, the statement that "you shouldn't put a shift kit in an electronically controlled trans" is way off base.
Are you saying this is the case with all TC's or just higher rpm stall TC's? ie 3800+ rpm
12-30-2005, 02:51 AM
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I have to agree you need a shift kit. I was hitting the rev limiter before I got mined.
The shifts are more firmer, it also in the long run will ad more years to the life of your transmission
The shifts are more firmer, it also in the long run will ad more years to the life of your transmission
12-30-2005, 08:50 AM
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You can deal with some things by tuning (shift points,
etc.) but others, you're better off buying a better built
converter. For example the TCC doesn't -have- to be
so small it can't hold 25% throttle, that's just the way
some are. A properly built one would let you not touch
the force motor table to get holding power. There is a
night & day difference between my old TCI clutch and
the larger one on the Fuddle "street performance" one
I have in there now, the larger one holds tight even with
the line backed off substantially (though I haven't taken
it all the way back down to stock yet).
This kind of thing is not discussed too much in the converter
mfr marketing material, TCC lockup (except as a drag feature)
is more about the mundane, non-performance, drivability. But
I'm sure you could get more detailed info from applications
people at your manufacturer of choice, and find out about
the TCC details (if said details are not forthcoming, or just
fishy, maybe they're not your mfr of choice after all).
The line% vs load profile is still not accessible to tuners
and if you're asking the trans clutches to hold against
large multiplied torque at low-moderate "load" then you
may need to adjust the "soft" line profile. Not so much
a matter of needing more mechanical line pressure, as
needing a sensible performance electronic regulation.
But you've got to get by with the tools that are to hand.
Shift kits give me the ******* for some reason even though
I've rebuilt a TH350 before. Too many little ***** and even
more mystery holes. I'd like a Stage 1, 1-hour install, no
additional grinding/drilling kit please....
etc.) but others, you're better off buying a better built
converter. For example the TCC doesn't -have- to be
so small it can't hold 25% throttle, that's just the way
some are. A properly built one would let you not touch
the force motor table to get holding power. There is a
night & day difference between my old TCI clutch and
the larger one on the Fuddle "street performance" one
I have in there now, the larger one holds tight even with
the line backed off substantially (though I haven't taken
it all the way back down to stock yet).
This kind of thing is not discussed too much in the converter
mfr marketing material, TCC lockup (except as a drag feature)
is more about the mundane, non-performance, drivability. But
I'm sure you could get more detailed info from applications
people at your manufacturer of choice, and find out about
the TCC details (if said details are not forthcoming, or just
fishy, maybe they're not your mfr of choice after all).
The line% vs load profile is still not accessible to tuners
and if you're asking the trans clutches to hold against
large multiplied torque at low-moderate "load" then you
may need to adjust the "soft" line profile. Not so much
a matter of needing more mechanical line pressure, as
needing a sensible performance electronic regulation.
But you've got to get by with the tools that are to hand.
Shift kits give me the ******* for some reason even though
I've rebuilt a TH350 before. Too many little ***** and even
more mystery holes. I'd like a Stage 1, 1-hour install, no
additional grinding/drilling kit please....
12-30-2005, 09:15 AM
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I never hit the limiter on mine on the 2-3 shift. And I have a 4000 stall converter. Like I said before, mine shifts firm enough and hits every gear w/o slippin' through. All w/o a shift kit.
12-30-2005, 09:18 AM
#19
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
You can deal with some things by tuning (shift points,
etc.) but others, you're better off buying a better built
converter. For example the TCC doesn't -have- to be
so small it can't hold 25% throttle, that's just the way
some are. A properly built one would let you not touch
the force motor table to get holding power. There is a
night & day difference between my old TCI clutch and
the larger one on the Fuddle "street performance" one
I have in there now, the larger one holds tight even with
the line backed off substantially (though I haven't taken
it all the way back down to stock yet).
etc.) but others, you're better off buying a better built
converter. For example the TCC doesn't -have- to be
so small it can't hold 25% throttle, that's just the way
some are. A properly built one would let you not touch
the force motor table to get holding power. There is a
night & day difference between my old TCI clutch and
the larger one on the Fuddle "street performance" one
I have in there now, the larger one holds tight even with
the line backed off substantially (though I haven't taken
it all the way back down to stock yet).