MoreToe Otta Vs GM Stuff
02-08-2008, 04:18 PM
#41
Thanks DD.
I don't know why the trolls such as Suprastars are such proponents of all that is foreign. I guess he's so busy trying to sell Chinese plastic beads to the natives (us) that he'll believe anything. Same type of attitude that sent the "help desks" to India, and we know what great great service we get there. Anyone can break out individual statistics trying to validate their points, while ignoring the numbers as a whole. Being an Automotive Engineer for most of my career I have seen how few higher level jobs (Engineering, Design, Management) the Foreigners actually provide to us.
And I did make a mistake above where I said GM employs more Americans than Toyota, Honda and Nissan combined. "GM by itself, employs more Americans directly than All Foreign automobile manufacturers combined".
Here's an excerpt on JPC(Jobs per car) ranking:
Source for above: Level Field Institute. Washington, DC.
I don't know why the trolls such as Suprastars are such proponents of all that is foreign. I guess he's so busy trying to sell Chinese plastic beads to the natives (us) that he'll believe anything. Same type of attitude that sent the "help desks" to India, and we know what great great service we get there. Anyone can break out individual statistics trying to validate their points, while ignoring the numbers as a whole. Being an Automotive Engineer for most of my career I have seen how few higher level jobs (Engineering, Design, Management) the Foreigners actually provide to us.
And I did make a mistake above where I said GM employs more Americans than Toyota, Honda and Nissan combined. "GM by itself, employs more Americans directly than All Foreign automobile manufacturers combined".
Here's an excerpt on JPC(Jobs per car) ranking:
Industry JPC Scores—at a glance.
Because Ford, GM and Chrysler conduct far more of their research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly work in the U.S. than foreign automakers do, buying a Ford, GM or Chrysler supports two to three times more jobs than buying the average foreign automobile. Some comparisons are even more striking. Buying a Ford supports more than six times more jobs than buying a Hyundai. Comparing a Honda and a Hyundai? The Honda supports over three times more jobs.
Our results may surprise some observers. First, historic buyouts at GM and Ford reduced domestic automakers' "jobs advantage" only modestly in 2007 — with domestic automakers supporting approximately 2.5 times more U.S. jobs per car than the average foreign automaker.
Even though Toyota added jobs by opening a new plant, it also relied more heavily on imports from Japan, so its JPC score dropped slightly. Honda remains the best jobs performer among major foreign automakers, employing over six times more workers per car than Hyundai and about two and a half times more workers per car than VW.
In some cases, autos assembled outside the U.S. by companies based here support significantly more U.S. jobs than autos assembled here by companies with most of their engineering, design and headquarter jobs located overseas. For example, a Ford assembled in Mexico this year will likely support approximately six times more U.S. jobs as a Hyundai assembled in Alabama.
Because Ford, GM and Chrysler conduct far more of their research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly work in the U.S. than foreign automakers do, buying a Ford, GM or Chrysler supports two to three times more jobs than buying the average foreign automobile. Some comparisons are even more striking. Buying a Ford supports more than six times more jobs than buying a Hyundai. Comparing a Honda and a Hyundai? The Honda supports over three times more jobs.
Our results may surprise some observers. First, historic buyouts at GM and Ford reduced domestic automakers' "jobs advantage" only modestly in 2007 — with domestic automakers supporting approximately 2.5 times more U.S. jobs per car than the average foreign automaker.
Even though Toyota added jobs by opening a new plant, it also relied more heavily on imports from Japan, so its JPC score dropped slightly. Honda remains the best jobs performer among major foreign automakers, employing over six times more workers per car than Hyundai and about two and a half times more workers per car than VW.
In some cases, autos assembled outside the U.S. by companies based here support significantly more U.S. jobs than autos assembled here by companies with most of their engineering, design and headquarter jobs located overseas. For example, a Ford assembled in Mexico this year will likely support approximately six times more U.S. jobs as a Hyundai assembled in Alabama.
Last edited by TT632; 02-08-2008 at 04:39 PM.
02-08-2008, 04:28 PM
#42
Heres another interesting factoid from the Level Field Institute on Direct employees per 2500 cars(JPC). This does not include Contract personal which GM employs in the thousands.
GM 72
Honda 45
Hyundai 12
Nissan 37
Toyota 32
Volkswagon 19
Hmm, didn't realize the little F&F cars supported more american jobs Than Nissan or Toyota.
GM 72
Honda 45
Hyundai 12
Nissan 37
Toyota 32
Volkswagon 19
Hmm, didn't realize the little F&F cars supported more american jobs Than Nissan or Toyota.
Last edited by TT632; 02-08-2008 at 05:03 PM.
02-09-2008, 07:58 AM
#43
This is purely propaganda. Heavy-duty manual tranny's made by Getrag for the big trucks came from Germany. The vast majority of Dodge tranny's come from Kokomo, Indiana. I grew up there and drove by one of their plants daily. It accounts for a huge percentage of the Kokomo workforce. Hell, I have friends that work there.
Last edited by 99Hawk262; 02-09-2008 at 08:07 AM.
02-09-2008, 09:13 AM
#44
Heres another interesting factoid from the Level Field Institute on Direct employees per 2500 cars(JPC). This does not include Contract personal which GM employs in the thousands.
GM 72
Honda 45
Hyundai 12
Nissan 37
Toyota 32
Volkswagon 19
Hmm, didn't realize the little F&F cars supported more american jobs Than Nissan or Toyota.
GM 72
Honda 45
Hyundai 12
Nissan 37
Toyota 32
Volkswagon 19
Hmm, didn't realize the little F&F cars supported more american jobs Than Nissan or Toyota.
02-09-2008, 10:38 AM
#45
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 886
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's no difference in the material used to make either a Japanese or Domestic timing belt. It is only wise for someone to change the belt before its recommended service anyways.
I dont understand the purpose of your post considering Ive had hell with my 2004 Tahoe's:
power window switch(twice)
power window motor(twice driver, once passenger)
transmisson x3 (replaced one under warranty twice and one at 104k)
brakes(worste brake problems Ive ever encountered)
All those listed should last longer than a timing belt, but does it? No! We can look at another scenario called oil changes. Manufactors recommend changing them at 3000 mile intervals. Again, do we? No!
I dont understand the purpose of your post considering Ive had hell with my 2004 Tahoe's:
power window switch(twice)
power window motor(twice driver, once passenger)
transmisson x3 (replaced one under warranty twice and one at 104k)
brakes(worste brake problems Ive ever encountered)
All those listed should last longer than a timing belt, but does it? No! We can look at another scenario called oil changes. Manufactors recommend changing them at 3000 mile intervals. Again, do we? No!
Couple of things:
I think the big difference is MOST Domestic use timing chains
MOST Imports use belts
Manufacturers Recommend changing oil every 3000. That general statement isn't true today. Owners manual, forget the sales a ssociates word, is the safest way to confirm. When I sold new 2005 Hondas the first oil change on the CR-V for example was $10,000
Oil is also different today
An old man and his dog - Jake
02-09-2008, 11:09 AM
#46
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 886
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now lets do the Tahoe:
We're associating a window switch and electric window motor in the same class as a timing belt? Agreeded, when they don't work it's a problem. If a timing belt goes often it results in serious Engine Damage. True or False
Tranny issues: Sorry you're having issues. All of my certified used GM cars and New have 5 yr. 100,000 tranny assistance. My guess is GM tracked how often they had tranny issues. They are either dumb asses or are looking for ways to run the company out of business. If they put a warranty on something unreliable.
I can't see from here but I'll bet you tow. Did your car come from GM with a trailer package? That's more than just a hitch. Do you have the correct gear ratio? Have you read the manual associated with auto transmissions and serviced accordingly? If you tow do you run O.D. In todays cars it's almost a necessity to buy, or think very seriously about, an extended warranty.
Tranny went in my Toe Otta mini van around 10K. The big shock was Road Sde Assistance was extra. Not part of the bumper to bumper from Toe Otta.
An old man and his dog - Jake
We're associating a window switch and electric window motor in the same class as a timing belt? Agreeded, when they don't work it's a problem. If a timing belt goes often it results in serious Engine Damage. True or False
Tranny issues: Sorry you're having issues. All of my certified used GM cars and New have 5 yr. 100,000 tranny assistance. My guess is GM tracked how often they had tranny issues. They are either dumb asses or are looking for ways to run the company out of business. If they put a warranty on something unreliable.
I can't see from here but I'll bet you tow. Did your car come from GM with a trailer package? That's more than just a hitch. Do you have the correct gear ratio? Have you read the manual associated with auto transmissions and serviced accordingly? If you tow do you run O.D. In todays cars it's almost a necessity to buy, or think very seriously about, an extended warranty.
Tranny went in my Toe Otta mini van around 10K. The big shock was Road Sde Assistance was extra. Not part of the bumper to bumper from Toe Otta.
An old man and his dog - Jake
02-09-2008, 11:24 AM
#47
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now lets do the Tahoe:
We're associating a window switch and electric window motor in the same class as a timing belt? Agreeded, when they don't work it's a problem. If a timing belt goes often it results in serious Engine Damage. True or False
Tranny issues: Sorry you're having issues. All of my certified used GM cars and New have 5 yr. 100,000 tranny assistance. My guess is GM tracked how often they had tranny issues. They are either dumb asses or are looking for ways to run the company out of business. If they put a warranty on something unreliable.
I can't see from here but I'll bet you tow. Did your car come from GM with a trailer package? That's more than just a hitch. Do you have the correct gear ratio? Have you read the manual associated with auto transmissions and serviced accordingly? If you tow do you run O.D. In todays cars it's almost a necessity to buy, or think very seriously about, an extended warranty.
Tranny went in my Toe Otta mini van around 10K. The big shock was Road Sde Assistance was extra. Not part of the bumper to bumper from Toe Otta.
An old man and his dog - Jake
We're associating a window switch and electric window motor in the same class as a timing belt? Agreeded, when they don't work it's a problem. If a timing belt goes often it results in serious Engine Damage. True or False
Tranny issues: Sorry you're having issues. All of my certified used GM cars and New have 5 yr. 100,000 tranny assistance. My guess is GM tracked how often they had tranny issues. They are either dumb asses or are looking for ways to run the company out of business. If they put a warranty on something unreliable.
I can't see from here but I'll bet you tow. Did your car come from GM with a trailer package? That's more than just a hitch. Do you have the correct gear ratio? Have you read the manual associated with auto transmissions and serviced accordingly? If you tow do you run O.D. In todays cars it's almost a necessity to buy, or think very seriously about, an extended warranty.
Tranny went in my Toe Otta mini van around 10K. The big shock was Road Sde Assistance was extra. Not part of the bumper to bumper from Toe Otta.
An old man and his dog - Jake
02-09-2008, 11:40 AM
#48
14 Second Truck Club
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I owned a Tundra for about 1 year, just got rid of it. It shook all over the place on the highway, had front end problems, buckled the tailgate, broke the camshafts, had the transmission replaced along with the torque convereter, the list goes on and on. And Im not the only one, check the site I listed. They all have the same problems as me. It also went through 3 window switches, 2 window motors, and all sorts of odds and ends. How is my story and less believable that yours?
Go troll somewhere where people might actually buy into your BS.
02-09-2008, 12:08 PM
#49
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go to tundrasolutions.com and you will find actual owners talking about all sorts of problems for pages and pages and pages, and most of them arent lying. You probably dont even own a Tahoe like I said already, and if you do I bet you didnt have 90% of those problems. Oh, thats right, you also own a SD Ford, 350Z, 03 Cobra, LS1 RX7.......You are so full of ****.
I owned a Tundra for about 1 year, just got rid of it. It shook all over the place on the highway, had front end problems, buckled the tailgate, broke the camshafts, had the transmission replaced along with the torque convereter, the list goes on and on. And Im not the only one, check the site I listed. They all have the same problems as me. It also went through 3 window switches, 2 window motors, and all sorts of odds and ends. How is my story and less believable that yours?
Go troll somewhere where people might actually buy into your BS.
I owned a Tundra for about 1 year, just got rid of it. It shook all over the place on the highway, had front end problems, buckled the tailgate, broke the camshafts, had the transmission replaced along with the torque convereter, the list goes on and on. And Im not the only one, check the site I listed. They all have the same problems as me. It also went through 3 window switches, 2 window motors, and all sorts of odds and ends. How is my story and less believable that yours?
Go troll somewhere where people might actually buy into your BS.
http://www.canadiantruckkingchallenge.ca/index.htm
Another magazine decided to do a Tundra vs desiel comparison(since no other 1/2 ton considered worthy) towing 7500lbs.
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Find it ironic that everyone downs the Tundra, but it keeps winning these types of comparisons. O well.
02-09-2008, 12:52 PM
#50
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.canadiantruckkingchallenge.ca/index.htm
Another magazine decided to do a Tundra vs desiel comparison(since no other 1/2 ton considered worthy) towing 7500lbs.
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Find it ironic that everyone downs the Tundra, but it keeps winning these types of comparisons. O well.
Another magazine decided to do a Tundra vs desiel comparison(since no other 1/2 ton considered worthy) towing 7500lbs.
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Find it ironic that everyone downs the Tundra, but it keeps winning these types of comparisons. O well.
Does anyone have that video of the Tundra losing like a bitch in a comparo at the Eaton testing grounds....being tested by Eaton themselves? It was funny and enlightening!
It's even more funny when you read the comments down below the vid where Tundra owners claim that the video is pretty accurate in it's depiction of the Toyota LSD under adverse conditions.Or how's about that Ford video showing the Tundra bed flop around like a fish out of water? The fanboys say "oh, well they just found a bad frequency for the Tundra's rear suspension...", but I say that the truck is ****-poor for even HAVING a frequency at which that can happen in the first place.
You know what, I take it back....I'd take a Nissan Titan over the Tundra any day of the week! I've driven both and the Titan is the best import full-size out there in my experience! I'd still take an F-150 or Silverado over the Titan, however, but I would rate the Nissan about on par with the old Dodg-1500, which is till quite a feat for Nissan, seeing as that was their first try at the market. It took Toyota THREE tries to get it anywhere near what it need to be. Explain that one to me.
It would have taken them only ONE try if they had done the smart thing and based the Tundra/T100 off of the Land Cruiser in the first place....dumbasses.
02-09-2008, 01:01 PM
#51
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Tundra is made of plastic. That's why it blows chunks, just like the Titan.
Does anyone have that video of the Tundra losing like a bitch in a comparo at the Eaton testing grounds....being tested by Eaton themselves? It was funny and enlightening! It's even more funny when you read the comments down below the vid where Tundra owners claim that the video is pretty accurate in it's depiction of the Toyota LSD under adverse conditions.
Or how's about that Ford video showing the Tundra bed flop around like a fish out of water? The fanboys say "oh, well they just found a bad frequency for the Tundra's rear suspension...", but I say that the truck is ****-poor for even HAVING a frequency at which that can happen in the first place.
You know what, I take it back....I'd take a Nissan Titan over the Tundra any day of the week! I've driven both and the Titan is the best import full-size out there in my experience! I'd still take an F-150 or Silverado over the Titan, however, but I would rate the Nissan about on par with the old Dodg-1500, which is till quite a feat for Nissan, seeing as that was their first try at the market. It took Toyota THREE tries to get it anywhere near what it need to be. Explain that one to me.
It would have taken them only ONE try if they had done the smart thing and based the Tundra/T100 off of the Land Cruiser in the first place....dumbasses.
Does anyone have that video of the Tundra losing like a bitch in a comparo at the Eaton testing grounds....being tested by Eaton themselves? It was funny and enlightening!
It's even more funny when you read the comments down below the vid where Tundra owners claim that the video is pretty accurate in it's depiction of the Toyota LSD under adverse conditions.Or how's about that Ford video showing the Tundra bed flop around like a fish out of water? The fanboys say "oh, well they just found a bad frequency for the Tundra's rear suspension...", but I say that the truck is ****-poor for even HAVING a frequency at which that can happen in the first place.
You know what, I take it back....I'd take a Nissan Titan over the Tundra any day of the week! I've driven both and the Titan is the best import full-size out there in my experience! I'd still take an F-150 or Silverado over the Titan, however, but I would rate the Nissan about on par with the old Dodg-1500, which is till quite a feat for Nissan, seeing as that was their first try at the market. It took Toyota THREE tries to get it anywhere near what it need to be. Explain that one to me.
It would have taken them only ONE try if they had done the smart thing and based the Tundra/T100 off of the Land Cruiser in the first place....dumbasses.
. This is also why the Tundra was the first Import truck to surpass the GMC Sierra as the #4 best selling pickup. There was no need for Toyota to make a full size pickup at the time. Their concentration was on small compact size cars, which by now you know they conquered. They decided to step up now, to show the big three what they can actually do. 198k vehicles sold in its first year is amazing considering slow sales of pickups.
Dodge and Ford havent won a single magazine test in over 5 years. Matter of fact, Dodge is last on everyones tests. Go figure!
02-09-2008, 02:17 PM
#53
12 Second Club
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bucks County, Pa.
Posts: 4,273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-09-2008, 04:03 PM
#54
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yea that is why the Tundra sold three times as many Titans last year . This is also why the Tundra was the first Import truck to surpass the GMC Sierra as the #4 best selling pickup.
There was no need for Toyota to make a full size pickup at the time. Their concentration was on small compact size cars, which by now you know they conquered. They decided to step up now, to show the big three what they can actually do. 198k vehicles sold in its first year is amazing considering slow sales of pickups.
Dodge and Ford havent won a single magazine test in over 5 years. Matter of fact, Dodge is last on everyones tests. Go figure!
. This is also why the Tundra was the first Import truck to surpass the GMC Sierra as the #4 best selling pickup. There was no need for Toyota to make a full size pickup at the time. Their concentration was on small compact size cars, which by now you know they conquered. They decided to step up now, to show the big three what they can actually do. 198k vehicles sold in its first year is amazing considering slow sales of pickups.
Dodge and Ford havent won a single magazine test in over 5 years. Matter of fact, Dodge is last on everyones tests. Go figure!
Just because Mustang has traditionally out-sold the Camaro does not make it the better car. Or how about how the Dodge Dakota regularly out-sells it's platform-mate and clone, the Mitsubishi Raider? The Raider is a nicer pickup, if just barely, but it tanked in sales.
Also, you really speak to Toyota's character with your second statement. No, Toyota really didn't need to enter the full-size truck arena, but they did anyway, because they are a GREEDY CORPORATION. Nissan did it because they NEEDED sales, not because it was one of the last "challenges" left on their list like Toyota. You've got to understand, Toyota doesn't care about a fair, competitive market, they just want everyone out of their way so that more money goes into their coffers. That is 100% true because they are a business, and a business is only a business if money is being made.
That is why they only send us their most boring and sterile cars. Trust me, we'd all think better of them if they brought us more cars like the old AE86 and MR2. Seriously,how many cars in the current Toyota lineup can genuinely get a person's blood moving?
The Corolla? pshhhh. How's about the Avalon? Yeah right. The Camry? Jelly-bean car of the year, 20 years running. Yaris? Should've kept the Vitz nameplate and brought the turbo model over here, but didn't, so for right now it is just a hardcore Echo. What about the Sequoia? You've gotta be kidding me. Tundra? Dodge clone with retarded interior two-tone setup. Rav4? Competes with the Escape for generic cute-ute of the year award. Land Cruiser? It's old and needs to die already. Tacoma? Decent pickup, but it feels like I'm driving a Corolla S with a lift kit....
Where are the fun-to-drive cars here? They don't exist! Scion doesn't have anything remotely interesting, driving-experience wise, and Lexus puts so many nannies into their cars that you might as well forget that cars that look good on paper, like the IS300, are RWD at all, because they drives like a FWD vehicle. Who wants to pay BMW prices for a car that drives like a Camry on steroids? Anyone?
Ohhhh that's right, the people who got burned on a Chevrolet Vega 25 years ago and still think that that car is indicative of the quality of domestic manufacturers...give me a break! That's what you get for being a cheap-*** anyway.
As for Ford and Dodge not winning any magazine awards lately, that's probably because they A)don't bribe journalists, B)could care less what some BMW-leg-humping journalist thinks, and C) people don't really need to see that the domestics win any awards because they KNOW that the product is good. Ford is the #1 in the truck world right now. Chevrolet is #2. It has been that way for twenty years, and people have grown up their entire lives knowing Ford and Chevy as 1 and 2, occasionally switching positions.
Toyota has had some good luck with its Tundra lately, but I think we can all attribute it to former Tundra and Toyota car buyers trading in on them because their favorite company finally built a REAL truck. The same thing is going to happen when the Camaro is finally realeased.
Also, a lot of Dodge's misfortunes are about to be corrected. The ALL NEW from the ground up Ram is about to debut. It has a lineup of entirely new engines and transmissions, a new frame and suspension, front and back, and the styling is reminiscent of the old 70's Mopars grafted onto the latest model's DNA. This thing is going to have a refined ride like the Ridgeline, but with actual hauling and towing capabilities due to its five-link coil spring rear suspension and a stiffer frame and chassis. The old Ram will look like a joke compared to the new one. Did I mention the interior is completely revamped? It's about like the F-150 and Ram had a bastard child(a good thing), with it's console and materials. I'd keep an eye out for it when it debuts.
Titan>Tundra.
02-09-2008, 05:30 PM
#55
14 Second Truck Club
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also love how Toyota claims to be a friend of the environment, but they produce the truck that gets almost the worst gas mileage, with 4.30 gears and one of the highest curb weights. They just made the truck look big soo people would buy into the "real truck" image. Too bad you cant load stuff in from the tailgate, hardly drive on concrete highways without vibration, have a decent trans that doesnt buck and jerk, a driveshaft that doesnt fall out, a camshaft that doesnt snap, the list just keeps going.
02-09-2008, 05:57 PM
#56
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ford has won plenty of comparisons, and the new F150 is barely 5 years old, and it did well its first 2 years out. Ford is behind on power, but I think the vast majority of these trucks dont need all the power they get anyway. The Ford frame, suspension and driveline are all top notch. And they arent having nearly the problems that Toyota is.
I also love how Toyota claims to be a friend of the environment, but they produce the truck that gets almost the worst gas mileage, with 4.30 gears and one of the highest curb weights. They just made the truck look big soo people would buy into the "real truck" image. Too bad you cant load stuff in from the tailgate, hardly drive on concrete highways without vibration, have a decent trans that doesnt buck and jerk, a driveshaft that doesnt fall out, a camshaft that doesnt snap, the list just keeps going.
I also love how Toyota claims to be a friend of the environment, but they produce the truck that gets almost the worst gas mileage, with 4.30 gears and one of the highest curb weights. They just made the truck look big soo people would buy into the "real truck" image. Too bad you cant load stuff in from the tailgate, hardly drive on concrete highways without vibration, have a decent trans that doesnt buck and jerk, a driveshaft that doesnt fall out, a camshaft that doesnt snap, the list just keeps going.
Show me where the Toyota places last in terms of fuel mileage and show me where Ford/Dodge has owned the Tundra in a comparison.
http://www.canadiantruckkingchallenge.ca/index.htm
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Yep another category the Tundra won in. How come it keeps beating these desiels and every other 1/2 truck in towing?
02-09-2008, 06:17 PM
#57
14 Second Truck Club
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You love bringing up the 20 or so camshaft issues. Its getting pathetic, since the last camshaft issue was almost a year ago.
Show me where the Toyota places last in terms of fuel mileage and show me where Ford/Dodge has owned the Tundra in a comparison.
http://www.canadiantruckkingchallenge.ca/index.htm
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Yep another category the Tundra won in. How come it keeps beating these desiels and every other 1/2 truck in towing?
Show me where the Toyota places last in terms of fuel mileage and show me where Ford/Dodge has owned the Tundra in a comparison.
http://www.canadiantruckkingchallenge.ca/index.htm
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Yep another category the Tundra won in. How come it keeps beating these desiels and every other 1/2 truck in towing?
02-09-2008, 06:26 PM
#58
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ford has won plenty of comparisons, and the new F150 is barely 5 years old, and it did well its first 2 years out. Ford is behind on power, but I think the vast majority of these trucks dont need all the power they get anyway. The Ford frame, suspension and driveline are all top notch. And they arent having nearly the problems that Toyota is.
I also love how Toyota claims to be a friend of the environment, but they produce the truck that gets almost the worst gas mileage, with 4.30 gears and one of the highest curb weights. They just made the truck look big soo people would buy into the "real truck" image. Too bad you cant load stuff in from the tailgate, hardly drive on concrete highways without vibration, have a decent trans that doesnt buck and jerk, a driveshaft that doesnt fall out, a camshaft that doesnt snap, the list just keeps going.
I also love how Toyota claims to be a friend of the environment, but they produce the truck that gets almost the worst gas mileage, with 4.30 gears and one of the highest curb weights. They just made the truck look big soo people would buy into the "real truck" image. Too bad you cant load stuff in from the tailgate, hardly drive on concrete highways without vibration, have a decent trans that doesnt buck and jerk, a driveshaft that doesnt fall out, a camshaft that doesnt snap, the list just keeps going.
^ best gas mileage
"It comes down to utility, though, and the 1st-place 2007 Toyota Tundra simply offers more of it. No matter what we threw at it, the Tundra never blinked. It's almost as though Toyota built a 3/4-ton truck and honed it for half-ton duty, such is its unburstable nature. You pay for the Toyota's proficiency with a stiffer ride than the Silverado, but the payoff is the most capable half-ton truck on the market"
"Now I know there are plenty of GM flag wavers out there who will say there's no way the Tundra is a better truck than the Silverado. They'll start talking about duallies and diesels and the six-speed automatic that doesn't come until the 2009 model year. Well, this test wasn't about those trucks, it was about regular old half-tons in 2007. And the baddest half-ton in 2007 is the Toyota Tundra."
^smart editor!
http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html
You say the Tundra gets worse gas mileage but here they say otherwise:
"Fuel-economy monitoring provided interesting results. Although the Silverado has higher EPA ratings (better even than the base V-6) with the high-tech Active Fuel Management system, it didn't offer the all-around benefits we would've predicted. It was the clear winner on our downhill sections, but the Toyota transmission's extra gears gave the bigger and heavier Tundra the fuel-economy edge--and we worked both trucks hard. On level highway, the Tundra's drivetrain delivered better efficiency, averaging 1.0 mpg better than the Silverado's."
02-09-2008, 06:27 PM
#59
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You love bringing up the 20 or so camshaft issues. Its getting pathetic, since the last camshaft issue was almost a year ago.
Show me where the Toyota places last in terms of fuel mileage and show me where Ford/Dodge has owned the Tundra in a comparison.
http://www.canadiantruckkingchallenge.ca/index.htm
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Yep another category the Tundra won in. How come it keeps beating these desiels and every other 1/2 truck in towing?
Show me where the Toyota places last in terms of fuel mileage and show me where Ford/Dodge has owned the Tundra in a comparison.
http://www.canadiantruckkingchallenge.ca/index.htm
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Yep another category the Tundra won in. How come it keeps beating these desiels and every other 1/2 truck in towing?
02-09-2008, 06:29 PM
#60
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You love bringing up the 20 or so camshaft issues. Its getting pathetic, since the last camshaft issue was almost a year ago.
Show me where the Toyota places last in terms of fuel mileage and show me where Ford/Dodge has owned the Tundra in a comparison.
http://www.canadiantruckkingchallenge.ca/index.htm
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Yep another category the Tundra won in. How come it keeps beating these desiels and every other 1/2 truck in towing?
Show me where the Toyota places last in terms of fuel mileage and show me where Ford/Dodge has owned the Tundra in a comparison.
http://www.canadiantruckkingchallenge.ca/index.htm
http://www.trucktrend.com/index.html
Yep another category the Tundra won in. How come it keeps beating these desiels and every other 1/2 truck in towing?
When is the last time you heard of a brand new Chevrolet or Ford truck EVER snapping a camshaft? It doesn't happen because they test their engines to the nth degree before ANYONE gets them. With Toyota, it's trial and error. I haven't heard anything about critical engine failures from Nissan or Honda trucks either, so that kinda makes Toyota a little shady looking....
You've got to understand, people who buy trucks to USE them usually go with what fits them best, what can get the job done for the best VALUE. With the amount of recalls, erm, sorry, service programs the Tundra has had lately, I wouldn't want to buy one, plain and simple. Not to mention the degradation in quality Toyotas have shown in the last few years, not just truck-exclusive either. The way I see it, Toyota is nothing but a producer of bland, relatively below-average designed vehicles that touts itself as the messiah of automakers. Since they killed all their sporting entries(MR2, Celica, Supra, Cressida, RWD Corolla, etc.) that particular status has pretty much been carved in stone.
On a side note, I seem to recall that even in the 80's and 90's Toyota seemed to have mechanical issues with several of their cars....head gaskets going bad after 20k miles on MK 3 Supras comes to mind...
Also, I've talked to real-world Tundra owners, and they keep telling me how surprised they were at discovering what abysmal gas mileage their ~5000 lb, 4wd, 4.30 geared, DOHC 5.7L V8, barn-door aero coefficient Tundras get. What surprises me is that they were expecting better somehow! Do the math and the Tundra looks bad on paper, even worse in real life!