Why arent the muscle cars priced cheaper?
#81
#82
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Just look at the price of a 350Z-
http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/model...3?modelId=5266
That is the same basic market as a new Camaro. There arent many sporty new coupes out there, and the ones that do exist arent cheap. You can get a base Mustang GT for $25k but the new Z28 will probably kill it in power. The new G8 GT is $29,995 for a more powerful, better equipped car than the Mustang. Different target markets, but the pricing is competitive.
I dont consider myself well to do, but I do make decent money. I try to be financially responsible as far as saving, retirement, college funds, etc. I could buy a C6 Z06, but I wouldnt commit that much of my income to a car. The money that I expect the new Camaro to cost is well within what I am willing to spend and probably wont be much more than the sticker price of my truck or my wifes car.
Last edited by mzoomora; 02-20-2008 at 09:55 PM.
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And there are plenty of Gen III's surpassing 1000rwhp, I would bet many times more than there are 350Z's.
But you go ahead and compare a supercharged off the shelf car to a shop built, custom parts, race gas, twin turbo car.
#84
#85
Are you serious? A shop car gets a lot more tuning time, build time and specialty parts as well as a "no cost spared" budget. Comparing a shop car to all but the most expensive customer cars is ridiculous, so I kind of expect it from you.
And there are plenty of Gen III's surpassing 1000rwhp, I would bet many times more than there are 350Z's.
But you go ahead and compare a supercharged off the shelf car to a shop built, custom parts, race gas, twin turbo car.
And there are plenty of Gen III's surpassing 1000rwhp, I would bet many times more than there are 350Z's.
But you go ahead and compare a supercharged off the shelf car to a shop built, custom parts, race gas, twin turbo car.
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It doesnt matter anyway, because that video proves nothing. How do you know that those are the real outputs? From a guy who is nothing more than a troll who will say anything to TRY to prove his point. Ignore his posts and you will be better off. Half the **** he says is made up, the other half if exaggerated.
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I made 680rwhp and 710lbft in my 350z with 17psi. On the same dyno, with similar turbokits, this same 350z made:
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...ts/855rwhp.jpg
^ that was 21psi
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...whpoverlay.jpg
^19psi
350z heads flow more than the Ls1. This is why they're able to produce so much power with little boost compared to most cars.
This is on this forum in the FI section:
This is one of our customer cars. It is equipped with the following mods:
-Speed Inc 382"
-03 Z06 Cam
-RGR stage 2 heads
-M6
-Moser 12 bolt
-Speed Inc Fuel system
-ATI D1SC w/8 rib conversion
-Speed Inc/Griffin custom front mount intercooler conversion
-3"-2.5" True duals to the bumper
- 60# Injectors
-Stock PCM
14lbs of boost
http://www.ls1speed.com/pictures/dynorun040.jpg
Compared to a 350z at 14psi same car as above.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...sports/658.jpg
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...ts/855rwhp.jpg
^ that was 21psi
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...whpoverlay.jpg
^19psi
350z heads flow more than the Ls1. This is why they're able to produce so much power with little boost compared to most cars.
This is on this forum in the FI section:
This is one of our customer cars. It is equipped with the following mods:
-Speed Inc 382"
-03 Z06 Cam
-RGR stage 2 heads
-M6
-Moser 12 bolt
-Speed Inc Fuel system
-ATI D1SC w/8 rib conversion
-Speed Inc/Griffin custom front mount intercooler conversion
-3"-2.5" True duals to the bumper
- 60# Injectors
-Stock PCM
14lbs of boost
http://www.ls1speed.com/pictures/dynorun040.jpg
Compared to a 350z at 14psi same car as above.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...sports/658.jpg
#88
I can show you several Honda's that would monkeystomp a Camaro with an STS kit. You can't use what one car has to decide who will win a race. Anything can be made fast it all depends on how dedicated the owner is and how deep his pockets are. Doesn't mean you can't go fast cheaply but it is a lot harder than people think.
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http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...33#post3335620
It gets better. So it is a 4.2l stroker, twin turbo shop car with custom prototype cams that you are comparing to a supercharged customer car with a factory stock grind.
Edit- I forgot to add that the 350Z is also on 105 octane.
It gets better. So it is a 4.2l stroker, twin turbo shop car with custom prototype cams that you are comparing to a supercharged customer car with a factory stock grind.
Edit- I forgot to add that the 350Z is also on 105 octane.
#90
Why is he still not banned? (suprastars)
Funny how steadfastly he ignores simple logic and fact (like P:W is what matters and that more displacement always allows for more power, all else being equal). He even admitted to being a troll and still isn't banned.
He should build a 1 cyl lawn mower engine swapped into a Japanese car pushing 1000rwhp and smoking Z06's.
.....or, just admit he's wrong and
Funny how steadfastly he ignores simple logic and fact (like P:W is what matters and that more displacement always allows for more power, all else being equal). He even admitted to being a troll and still isn't banned.
He should build a 1 cyl lawn mower engine swapped into a Japanese car pushing 1000rwhp and smoking Z06's.
.....or, just admit he's wrong and
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I can show you several Honda's that would monkeystomp a Camaro with an STS kit. You can't use what one car has to decide who will win a race. Anything can be made fast it all depends on how dedicated the owner is and how deep his pockets are. Doesn't mean you can't go fast cheaply but it is a lot harder than people think.
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Why is he still not banned? (suprastars)
Funny how steadfastly he ignores simple logic and fact (like P:W is what matters and that more displacement always allows for more power, all else being equal). He even admitted to being a troll and still isn't banned.
He should build a 1 cyl lawn mower engine swapped into a Japanese car pushing 1000rwhp and smoking Z06's.
.....or, just admit he's wrong and
Funny how steadfastly he ignores simple logic and fact (like P:W is what matters and that more displacement always allows for more power, all else being equal). He even admitted to being a troll and still isn't banned.
He should build a 1 cyl lawn mower engine swapped into a Japanese car pushing 1000rwhp and smoking Z06's.
.....or, just admit he's wrong and
#93
dude this is so ******* irritating.....this thread should of died ten years ago the fact that it comes down to simple ******* math......
you boost 2.0 of engine you get x amount of horepower
you boost 5.7 you get more as easy as that........
...going back to the subject..im sure there going to have a regular 5.7 version of the challenger and a 6 .....they just have to.....that hemi engine is awsome i love it...those dodge guys sure have and exellent powerplant...they just needed a car to put it in....challenger is cool but that quarter panel is so ugly nothing like the concept
you boost 2.0 of engine you get x amount of horepower
you boost 5.7 you get more as easy as that........
...going back to the subject..im sure there going to have a regular 5.7 version of the challenger and a 6 .....they just have to.....that hemi engine is awsome i love it...those dodge guys sure have and exellent powerplant...they just needed a car to put it in....challenger is cool but that quarter panel is so ugly nothing like the concept
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dude this is so ******* irritating.....this thread should of died ten years ago the fact that it comes down to simple ******* math......
you boost 2.0 of engine you get x amount of horepower
you boost 5.7 you get more as easy as that........
...going back to the subject..im sure there going to have a regular 5.7 version of the challenger and a 6 .....they just have to.....that hemi engine is awsome i love it...those dodge guys sure have and exellent powerplant...they just needed a car to put it in....challenger is cool but that quarter panel is so ugly nothing like the concept
you boost 2.0 of engine you get x amount of horepower
you boost 5.7 you get more as easy as that........
...going back to the subject..im sure there going to have a regular 5.7 version of the challenger and a 6 .....they just have to.....that hemi engine is awsome i love it...those dodge guys sure have and exellent powerplant...they just needed a car to put it in....challenger is cool but that quarter panel is so ugly nothing like the concept
#95
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Most shop cars I have seen take a back seat to their customers if the shop is worth a damn. I have never been to a reputable shop that even worked on their car during the normal business day. They may have some access to parts a normal customer doesn't but they are typical experimental parts that are still being tested not of the shelf proven parts. Thats just been my experience but if a shop places their own car over mine they won't have my business.
Last night I decided to pull a 24 hour shift and begin tuning our beast. The engine had almost 1,000 miles on it and I felt was ready for some dyno time (breaking in the engine properly is VERY important for any built high performance engine!) I started at 12psi (waste gate pressure on APS Extreme kit) and ended the tune SEVERAL hours and countless dyno pulls later at 20 PSI, all the way to dawn
#96
Most high profile shops use their shop cars as a showcase. It a moving, driving ad for them, it is their name on the line. And if it isnt the shops car it is usually teh shop owners car. Look at AMS and their shop EVO. Just read the thread link, they spent all night tuning an the car. Most shops are not going to stay over night to work on a customers car.
How many customer cars do you think get countless dyno pulls, a 24 hour tuning session, etc. Many shop cars get multiple cams, different cylinder heads, misc parts looking for that next 10 hp.
How many customer cars do you think get countless dyno pulls, a 24 hour tuning session, etc. Many shop cars get multiple cams, different cylinder heads, misc parts looking for that next 10 hp.
Look at the company for instance. They produce their on rods(GTM rods) there are able to support 2000hp for 6cyl motors. They have all the equipment to manufactor their on cams. They install all their pistons/rods, sleeving, etc... in house. These arent a fly by night performance shop. They tuned my car for 5 hours and had countless runs.
On another note, that is a customers car who drives it on a daily basis.
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If you have a reputable tuning/performance shop, then yes I would expect them to take their time on something so important as tuning.
Look at the company for instance. They produce their on rods(GTM rods) there are able to support 2000hp for 6cyl motors. They have all the equipment to manufactor their on cams. They install all their pistons/rods, sleeving, etc... in house. These arent a fly by night performance shop. They tuned my car for 5 hours and had countless runs.
On another note, that is a customers car who drives it on a daily basis.
Look at the company for instance. They produce their on rods(GTM rods) there are able to support 2000hp for 6cyl motors. They have all the equipment to manufactor their on cams. They install all their pistons/rods, sleeving, etc... in house. These arent a fly by night performance shop. They tuned my car for 5 hours and had countless runs.
On another note, that is a customers car who drives it on a daily basis.
#98
Your acting as if taking a long time to tune a negative. I wish more companies would provide extensive tuning efforts to please their customers. I couldnt tell you how many graphs Ive seen where the A/F ratio's where off the charts, timing was to high etc....
There is a reason why they are the largest 350z/g35 performance shop. I would rather have someone who took their time tuning, than someone who's rushing just to make more money!
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That car is much more extensive than my setup. All you need is a base map to work off of and the tuning will come much cheaper.
Your acting as if taking a long time to tune a negative. I wish more companies would provide extensive tuning efforts to please their customers. I couldnt tell you how many graphs Ive seen where the A/F ratio's where off the charts, timing was to high etc....
There is a reason why they are the largest 350z/g35 performance shop. I would rather have someone who took their time tuning, than someone who's rushing just to make more money!
Your acting as if taking a long time to tune a negative. I wish more companies would provide extensive tuning efforts to please their customers. I couldnt tell you how many graphs Ive seen where the A/F ratio's where off the charts, timing was to high etc....
There is a reason why they are the largest 350z/g35 performance shop. I would rather have someone who took their time tuning, than someone who's rushing just to make more money!
One of the reasons they are the largest G35/350Z shop is that people see what their shop cars does and it builds confidence, that is the purpose of the shop car and why it gets top notch parts and so much time invested. And again, this wasnt done to a customers car because very few are going to be willing to pay for that type of labor, and the shop isnt going to spend that kind of time on a $500 customer tune.
Keep trying to put a spin on it all you want. First you are comparing a STS to a conventional turbo, and a STS is a less that ideal setup for all out power and response. Then you are comparing a supercharged, stock cammed, pump gas customers car to a custom built, custom cammed, turbo shop car on race gas. But you dont want to give all the real info because then people would know how full of **** you are.
I tell you what, supras may be fast, but how many how gone mid 4's at 330mph? Because Hemi's do that **** all the time and I can get one in the new Challenger or Charger, that makes domestics better and Supras pieces of **** because they cant hang.
Sounds like one of your completely off topic, totally useless and utterly ridiculous comparisons.
#100
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We are pleased to announce our latest accomplishment, As many of you know we have a 4.24L Z shop car that you have all been anxiously waiting to see what we do with it. Last night I decided to pull a 24 hour shift and begin tuning our beast. The engine had almost 1,000 miles on it and I felt was ready for some dyno time (breaking in the engine properly is VERY important for any built high performance engine!) I started at 12psi (waste gate pressure on APS Extreme kit) and ended the tune SEVERAL hours and countless dyno pulls later at 20 PSI, all the way to dawn.
Sounds like a shop car to me.