88 Fiero Formula LS4/F40 6 speed swap
06-23-2013, 10:58 AM
#141
Been slacking on updates...
The car finally has every exterior panel/trim piece installed... Put the PS rocker panel back on as well the missing sections of round molding. The exterior is pretty much done with the exception of buffing the old paint to make it look as good as possible until I find time/$$ to get it painted.
I also fabbed up the passenger side seat mounts. Like the driver side, they are 16ga sheet metal bent into a tapered "C" shape so I could pickup the stock fiero seat studs and mount the C4 vette seats to the top side of the "C". The lower seat cushion comes out for mounting, so that makes it easy, especially since the seats are mounted in a fixed position vs. on sliders. Notice how dusty the PS seat is vs. the DS... I need to clean it or take some buddies for a ride.
While I was painting, I went ahead and painted the Laptop stand, once it was dry installed it as well as the rest of the console interior stuff:
Also went ahead and installed the aluminum faces for the pedals. These were originally installed on the Blue SBC car (so they say Fiero GT). They need a cleaning as well, but when you drive the car daily stuff will get dirty.
Snapped the belt tensioner last week... been pretty easy on the car the last several days and was just starting/idling/stopping the engine doing some more idle refinement on the tune when I hear a snap/crash/cling type sound when I turned the key... This was the cause:
Already have a new tensioner installed... I will watch it a little closer for the next month of two to see if it shows any signs of a similar type failure.
Did the front spring upgrade as well. I had been running the stock 88 front springs with 1 coil removed, but much prefer a slightly stiffer setup and have done the 84-86 GT spring upgrade a couple times before to get the needed rate improvement. Since I pulled home an 86 GT a few weeks back, it lost its springs today for the LS4/F40 car. It took about 2 hrs to get them off the car with the vast majority of that time dealing with the wheel lock lug nuts that I didn't have a key for. Ended up welding a nut to the lug nuts and then removing them. It was a trial/error type deal and took 3-4 times of trying to finally get them free... not looking forward to doing the rears...
So with the 86 FJF springs free on the bench, it took about 20 minutes to have the ones of the LS4 car out as well. Here they are laying next to each other. The long one is the 86 spring:
I cut 1 3/4 coils off the FJF spring, so it should have a rate of about 275lb/in and match the 275lb/in coilover springs in the rear. 1 1/2 coils makes the two springs have the same free length, but with the higher rate it will compress less. With the extra 1/4 coil removed it will be slightly shorter and should keep the car close to its current ride height, but with a higher spring rate.
Springs ready to go back in:
The springs are back in and I did another bleed of the front brakes, and added the front ground wire from the battery to the chassis (now I have two 2ga grounds to the chassis, + a 2ga + & - going right to the engine).
Last project for the day was to weld up some lateral link relocation brackets for the LS4/F40 car. I am planning on installing them on Sunday and then redoing the alignment.
Lateral link relocation brackets are now installed. I had to make a slight clearance mod for them to clear the 16" wheels, but now they fit. You can also see the rod end lateral links as well.
Alignment is done and I took it out and put another 25 miles on it.
Here is a picture of the slight notch I made on the lateral link to fit the 16" wheel (they fit w/o issue on 17's and larger). There is about 1/8" clearance. Yes, I need to get some new rubber bushings, but waiting for Rodney's to come out.
Between the lateral links and the 13" brake kit shoehorned inside the 16" wheels, I can't use lip mounted wheel weights for balancing. only stick on ones in the center of the wheel.
With the spring change, the ride height is still within about 1/8" of where it was before:
Buffed the car and it is now ready to travel to the 30th Fiero Anniversary at Indy. Its a good 20' car, much closer than that you start to see all the issues with the paint.
The car finally has every exterior panel/trim piece installed... Put the PS rocker panel back on as well the missing sections of round molding. The exterior is pretty much done with the exception of buffing the old paint to make it look as good as possible until I find time/$$ to get it painted.
I also fabbed up the passenger side seat mounts. Like the driver side, they are 16ga sheet metal bent into a tapered "C" shape so I could pickup the stock fiero seat studs and mount the C4 vette seats to the top side of the "C". The lower seat cushion comes out for mounting, so that makes it easy, especially since the seats are mounted in a fixed position vs. on sliders. Notice how dusty the PS seat is vs. the DS... I need to clean it or take some buddies for a ride.
While I was painting, I went ahead and painted the Laptop stand, once it was dry installed it as well as the rest of the console interior stuff:
Also went ahead and installed the aluminum faces for the pedals. These were originally installed on the Blue SBC car (so they say Fiero GT). They need a cleaning as well, but when you drive the car daily stuff will get dirty.
Snapped the belt tensioner last week... been pretty easy on the car the last several days and was just starting/idling/stopping the engine doing some more idle refinement on the tune when I hear a snap/crash/cling type sound when I turned the key... This was the cause:
Already have a new tensioner installed... I will watch it a little closer for the next month of two to see if it shows any signs of a similar type failure.
Did the front spring upgrade as well. I had been running the stock 88 front springs with 1 coil removed, but much prefer a slightly stiffer setup and have done the 84-86 GT spring upgrade a couple times before to get the needed rate improvement. Since I pulled home an 86 GT a few weeks back, it lost its springs today for the LS4/F40 car. It took about 2 hrs to get them off the car with the vast majority of that time dealing with the wheel lock lug nuts that I didn't have a key for. Ended up welding a nut to the lug nuts and then removing them. It was a trial/error type deal and took 3-4 times of trying to finally get them free... not looking forward to doing the rears...
So with the 86 FJF springs free on the bench, it took about 20 minutes to have the ones of the LS4 car out as well. Here they are laying next to each other. The long one is the 86 spring:
I cut 1 3/4 coils off the FJF spring, so it should have a rate of about 275lb/in and match the 275lb/in coilover springs in the rear. 1 1/2 coils makes the two springs have the same free length, but with the higher rate it will compress less. With the extra 1/4 coil removed it will be slightly shorter and should keep the car close to its current ride height, but with a higher spring rate.
Springs ready to go back in:
The springs are back in and I did another bleed of the front brakes, and added the front ground wire from the battery to the chassis (now I have two 2ga grounds to the chassis, + a 2ga + & - going right to the engine).
Last project for the day was to weld up some lateral link relocation brackets for the LS4/F40 car. I am planning on installing them on Sunday and then redoing the alignment.
Lateral link relocation brackets are now installed. I had to make a slight clearance mod for them to clear the 16" wheels, but now they fit. You can also see the rod end lateral links as well.
Alignment is done and I took it out and put another 25 miles on it.
Here is a picture of the slight notch I made on the lateral link to fit the 16" wheel (they fit w/o issue on 17's and larger). There is about 1/8" clearance. Yes, I need to get some new rubber bushings, but waiting for Rodney's to come out.
Between the lateral links and the 13" brake kit shoehorned inside the 16" wheels, I can't use lip mounted wheel weights for balancing. only stick on ones in the center of the wheel.
With the spring change, the ride height is still within about 1/8" of where it was before:
Buffed the car and it is now ready to travel to the 30th Fiero Anniversary at Indy. Its a good 20' car, much closer than that you start to see all the issues with the paint.
06-23-2013, 11:24 AM
#142
Teching In
I'll bet even as hard as you're driving and enjoying it, it's probably getting low to mid 20s for mileage at least. Can't wait to see more progress. Don't forget to check the highway mileage on the Indy trip, it'll probably shock us all 30+...
06-23-2013, 08:14 PM
#143
The last interstate mpg test was at 70-75mph on a 60ish degree day and it pulled down 27mpg over 200+miles. With the temps in the 80+ and the additional timing I added in the interstate cruise range, I am hoping to see 30mpg running in V8 mode. Then if I ever get DoD working, I am hoping it will push me up to 33-35mpg range for interstate cruising... that will be a huge accomplishment.
06-26-2013, 08:36 AM
#146
Teching In
So...2.8 and a 5-speed and you get this:
With nearly double the displacement, two additional cylinders, and one more gear, you get three times the horsepower, verified BETTER mileage, and California still probably wouldn't approve it for smog purposes even though the engine is at least 17 years newer.
This is really f'n cool to see come to life!
With nearly double the displacement, two additional cylinders, and one more gear, you get three times the horsepower, verified BETTER mileage, and California still probably wouldn't approve it for smog purposes even though the engine is at least 17 years newer.
This is really f'n cool to see come to life!
07-01-2013, 06:23 AM
#147
While at the 30th I was able to put the car on some race scales to check the overall weight. When I started this project the main goals were 100+ hp (than my SBC/getrag swap = 283whp), 100lbs less weight (SBC/Getrag was 2960 lbs) and 30+ mpg.
I easily met the weight target with the car weighing in at:
Total: 2807lb
LF 608 RF 609
LR 794 RR 796
43.3% Front/56.7% rear (my SBC/Getrag swap was 41.9% front/58.1% rear)
Depending on the weather, I might try to get on the dyno this week to see how close I am to that goal.
I easily met the weight target with the car weighing in at:
Total: 2807lb
LF 608 RF 609
LR 794 RR 796
43.3% Front/56.7% rear (my SBC/Getrag swap was 41.9% front/58.1% rear)
Depending on the weather, I might try to get on the dyno this week to see how close I am to that goal.
07-01-2013, 07:56 AM
#148
Teching In
More proof an LS swap can and should be done anywhere an SBC swap has been.
I got the wife interested in letting me get something unique to do an LS swap in.
Rear drive candidates (for any random truck 4.8 or 5.3) include several 1957 model Ford and Chevy post sedans, a black '60 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan (post), and a copper and cream '58 Edsel Corsair hardtop sedan. What's funny is the Edsel still runs/drives and the others don't. Those are $1500 or less. I'm also considering a black '56 Buick Special coupe, but it's almost $3K.
Front drive candidates (for specifically an LS4 of course) include a white '95 Lumina sedan with a blown DOHC 3.4, a pearl white 1999 Seville SLS with a blown 275hp N*, a blue 1995 Silhouette minivan with a good 3800 I could put in my Ciera, a silver 2002 Chevy Malibu sedan with a blown 3100, a red 2003 Chevy Venture Warner Brothers Edition van with a blown 3400, and a pearl pink Mary Kay Edition 2003 DeVille.
I got the wife interested in letting me get something unique to do an LS swap in.
Rear drive candidates (for any random truck 4.8 or 5.3) include several 1957 model Ford and Chevy post sedans, a black '60 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan (post), and a copper and cream '58 Edsel Corsair hardtop sedan. What's funny is the Edsel still runs/drives and the others don't. Those are $1500 or less. I'm also considering a black '56 Buick Special coupe, but it's almost $3K.
Front drive candidates (for specifically an LS4 of course) include a white '95 Lumina sedan with a blown DOHC 3.4, a pearl white 1999 Seville SLS with a blown 275hp N*, a blue 1995 Silhouette minivan with a good 3800 I could put in my Ciera, a silver 2002 Chevy Malibu sedan with a blown 3100, a red 2003 Chevy Venture Warner Brothers Edition van with a blown 3400, and a pearl pink Mary Kay Edition 2003 DeVille.
07-06-2013, 01:33 PM
#149
Put the car on a DynoJet Dyno today and pretty much met my goal of 100 more HP than the old SBC/Getrag swap!
382 wph @ about 6600 rpm
List of mods:
5.3L LS4 - stock heads and lower end
224/232 New Era DoD camshaft with pushrods/springs
Stock LS2 intake, injectors, Throttle body
Stock LS7 MAF and exhaust manifolds
4" cold air intake
Magnaflow 3" in dual 2.5 out exhaust
382 wph @ about 6600 rpm
List of mods:
5.3L LS4 - stock heads and lower end
224/232 New Era DoD camshaft with pushrods/springs
Stock LS2 intake, injectors, Throttle body
Stock LS7 MAF and exhaust manifolds
4" cold air intake
Magnaflow 3" in dual 2.5 out exhaust
07-06-2013, 05:17 PM
#152
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More proof an LS swap can and should be done anywhere an SBC swap has been.
I got the wife interested in letting me get something unique to do an LS swap in.
Rear drive candidates (for any random truck 4.8 or 5.3) include several 1957 model Ford and Chevy post sedans, a black '60 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan (post), and a copper and cream '58 Edsel Corsair hardtop sedan. What's funny is the Edsel still runs/drives and the others don't. Those are $1500 or less. I'm also considering a black '56 Buick Special coupe, but it's almost $3K.
Front drive candidates (for specifically an LS4 of course) include a white '95 Lumina sedan with a blown DOHC 3.4, a pearl white 1999 Seville SLS with a blown 275hp N*, a blue 1995 Silhouette minivan with a good 3800 I could put in my Ciera, a silver 2002 Chevy Malibu sedan with a blown 3100, a red 2003 Chevy Venture Warner Brothers Edition van with a blown 3400, and a pearl pink Mary Kay Edition 2003 DeVille.
I got the wife interested in letting me get something unique to do an LS swap in.
Rear drive candidates (for any random truck 4.8 or 5.3) include several 1957 model Ford and Chevy post sedans, a black '60 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan (post), and a copper and cream '58 Edsel Corsair hardtop sedan. What's funny is the Edsel still runs/drives and the others don't. Those are $1500 or less. I'm also considering a black '56 Buick Special coupe, but it's almost $3K.
Front drive candidates (for specifically an LS4 of course) include a white '95 Lumina sedan with a blown DOHC 3.4, a pearl white 1999 Seville SLS with a blown 275hp N*, a blue 1995 Silhouette minivan with a good 3800 I could put in my Ciera, a silver 2002 Chevy Malibu sedan with a blown 3100, a red 2003 Chevy Venture Warner Brothers Edition van with a blown 3400, and a pearl pink Mary Kay Edition 2003 DeVille.
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07-06-2013, 06:31 PM
#153
Thanks guys! It has been a fun swap!
wildcamaro: yes, my undergrad degree is in Mechanical Engineering.
I will probably have the car at the LS Fest in Bowling Green since its only a couple hours away. Then I should have an opportunity to run it down the 1/4 mile.
wildcamaro: yes, my undergrad degree is in Mechanical Engineering.
I will probably have the car at the LS Fest in Bowling Green since its only a couple hours away. Then I should have an opportunity to run it down the 1/4 mile.
08-04-2013, 07:22 AM
#155
Bump for some people looking for the thread.
Nothing major to update, had to replace a weak coil (random misfire on cyl 5 on cool damp mornings), swapped out the wobbly balancer with a new one, and cleaned the terminals on the used LS2 throttle body (occasional idle learn DTC)... other than that its been doing the daily driver routine.
Nothing major to update, had to replace a weak coil (random misfire on cyl 5 on cool damp mornings), swapped out the wobbly balancer with a new one, and cleaned the terminals on the used LS2 throttle body (occasional idle learn DTC)... other than that its been doing the daily driver routine.
Last edited by fieroguru; 08-04-2013 at 10:45 AM.
08-12-2013, 02:56 PM
#158
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Damn, dude. I love the Fiero and after seeing some great LS4 swap performance vids on youtube, have always wanted to do this swap. Thanks for scaring the crap out of me!! Not going there...
You're tenacity for meeting the challenges is very inspiring. Love the fab work!!
You're tenacity for meeting the challenges is very inspiring. Love the fab work!!
08-15-2013, 04:54 PM
#159
Damn, dude. I love the Fiero and after seeing some great LS4 swap performance vids on youtube, have always wanted to do this swap. Thanks for scaring the crap out of me!! Not going there...
You're tenacity for meeting the challenges is very inspiring. Love the fab work!!
You're tenacity for meeting the challenges is very inspiring. Love the fab work!!
Thanks!
Registered for LS Fest today an booked the hotel. I went with the all access pass so I can do everything and see how the car does.
