Just another Miata swap - building a race car with a V8Roadsters kit
01-30-2009, 11:04 AM
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Just another Miata swap - building a race car with a V8Roadsters kit Hey Gang,
I've just started ordering parts for my very own LSx based miata race car. I'm going with the V8Roadsters kit and will be using their brand new Ford 8.8 rear end option with their series 2 axles. Most of the parts should be on their way next week. Shandelle from V8Roadsters has been a huge help already.
The car will be based on an early miata (NA) chassis and will have a full cage and a track-only car.
I'm picking up an LS6 + T56 this coming weekend, and we're going to start stripping the car for the cage to go in.
My target is for the car to be on the track no later than mid April. Optimistically, March, but we'll see...
I'm anticipating doing endurance racing with the car, so it'll eventually get airjacks, a big-*** fuel cell with a dry break, etc. Right now, my worries are fitting brakes that will be adequate (without breaking the bank) and making the bearings/hubs last. Thoughts and suggestions appreciated!
I'll try to post updates here along the way, along with a thousand questions for those who have come before me, too!
Cheers,
Dean
I've just started ordering parts for my very own LSx based miata race car. I'm going with the V8Roadsters kit and will be using their brand new Ford 8.8 rear end option with their series 2 axles. Most of the parts should be on their way next week. Shandelle from V8Roadsters has been a huge help already.
The car will be based on an early miata (NA) chassis and will have a full cage and a track-only car.
I'm picking up an LS6 + T56 this coming weekend, and we're going to start stripping the car for the cage to go in.
My target is for the car to be on the track no later than mid April. Optimistically, March, but we'll see...
I'm anticipating doing endurance racing with the car, so it'll eventually get airjacks, a big-*** fuel cell with a dry break, etc. Right now, my worries are fitting brakes that will be adequate (without breaking the bank) and making the bearings/hubs last. Thoughts and suggestions appreciated!
I'll try to post updates here along the way, along with a thousand questions for those who have come before me, too!
Cheers,
Dean
01-30-2009, 05:31 PM
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So far I can only post pictures of my cancelled checks, credit card receipts and a sad looking donor car... But isn't that how every good car project starts?
Check back in two weeks - we'll have made some real progress.
Cheers,
Dean
Check back in two weeks - we'll have made some real progress.
Cheers,
Dean
03-06-2009, 02:14 PM
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We've made a bunch of progress! I'll have more pictures next week of all the fabrication the Evil Genius Racing team did under the hood and under the car. We're taking a lot of extra time to stiffen the chassis wherever possible because this car will live on the race track. Here's what we've got and where we're headed:
- The donor is a 91.
- We've already got a full cage in the car (75% complete), thanks to John Pagel and Clint at Evil Genius Racing. The cage is beautiful. We're tying it in to the A pillars, windshield cross member, tranny tunnel, front frame rails and the seatbelt towers. Even with all the torque of the LS1, this car will have a fighting chance when it comes to rigidity!
- We're going with the full V8Roadsters kit, including the Ford 8.8 rear end option with the uprated axles and CV's. Since the plans are to go endurance racing with the car, we bit the bullet and went for the "good stuff" right away. We contemplated using the CTS diff for our "first car" but in the end decided the proven reliability and widely available diff options for the 8.8 were the way to go.
- The car's interior, including the dash and ALL of the crap behind it (heating, ventilation, etc.) is all gone. Aaron Braverman of Marin Sound Werks in San Rafael is going to be working some of his high-end custom electronics fabrication magic to make us something light, minimalistic but beautiful for a dash/console.
- The engine is from a 2002 Camaro. The T56 is from a 2001 Camaro.
- John Pagel, owner of Evil Genius Racing, is going to build the diff (already have an aluminum case, going with a Detroit Locker and 3.55 RP, I think) and go through the tranny, as these are his specialties.
- We're already talking about fitting an accusump, as nothing sucks more than grenading a V8 and dumping 7-10 quarts of oil on the track for your racing buddies to slide through... Your thoughts on this are appreciated!
- We're going to start with a pretty basic spec miata suspension with stiffer front springs. We've got some options of where to go from there, as we have adjustable Koni's and JRZ's sitting around from previous ITA efforts.
- Brakes! Still not sure what exactly we're going to do. We're contemplating everything from bbundy's Mini set up to something custom that EGR has put toegether using 3rd (2nd?) gen RX7 calipers and an E30 rotor in the front and the 2001+ MX-5 sport option brakes in the back, as they bolt right up. To get the car rolling on the track, we'll probably just use 1.8 stock brakes or a set of early Wilwood "big brakes" from another miata that we have.
Current Status:
- Cage is mostly in the car as noted above.
- Engine and tranny have been in and out of the car several times to get all the fab work done correctly before welding it all back up and painting it.
- Frame rail reinforcements are welded in place.
- I've got the wiring harness and will be sending the PCM off to PoconoJoe (from LS1Tech) for a computer reflash to get rid of the stuff we don't need.
- Front subframe is back in the car
- Sanderson compact headers acquired and on the engine for fitment in the engine compartment.
- Shandelle has promised delivery of the diff mounting kit and axles in the next two weeks, which will be just in time for us.
Progress will be sort of slow as the Spec Miata racing season is just getting underway, and that takes up a lot of time for all the players involved. I'm shooting for a May track debut, but if we get a couple solid weekends in, it could happen in April. By June, I promise!!
Shandelle has already proven to be a big help to us and has delivered exactly what he's promised! I am very confident that we hitched our wagon to the right vendor for this endeavor.
Here are a few quick videos. Nothing particularly interesting except the walkaround of the cage, which is impressive.
Engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1nPw8geTdg
V8Roadsters Subframe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0eF2ZHw31E
Evil Genius Racing cage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-41PdDRPK74
Sanderson headers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYVslQpc6e4
At Texas World Speedway this weekend doing some driver coaching and then several weekends of Spec Miata racing in California. Progress will be slow for the next month, but April will be a big month!
Cheers,
Dean
- The donor is a 91.
- We've already got a full cage in the car (75% complete), thanks to John Pagel and Clint at Evil Genius Racing. The cage is beautiful. We're tying it in to the A pillars, windshield cross member, tranny tunnel, front frame rails and the seatbelt towers. Even with all the torque of the LS1, this car will have a fighting chance when it comes to rigidity!
- We're going with the full V8Roadsters kit, including the Ford 8.8 rear end option with the uprated axles and CV's. Since the plans are to go endurance racing with the car, we bit the bullet and went for the "good stuff" right away. We contemplated using the CTS diff for our "first car" but in the end decided the proven reliability and widely available diff options for the 8.8 were the way to go.
- The car's interior, including the dash and ALL of the crap behind it (heating, ventilation, etc.) is all gone. Aaron Braverman of Marin Sound Werks in San Rafael is going to be working some of his high-end custom electronics fabrication magic to make us something light, minimalistic but beautiful for a dash/console.
- The engine is from a 2002 Camaro. The T56 is from a 2001 Camaro.
- John Pagel, owner of Evil Genius Racing, is going to build the diff (already have an aluminum case, going with a Detroit Locker and 3.55 RP, I think) and go through the tranny, as these are his specialties.
- We're already talking about fitting an accusump, as nothing sucks more than grenading a V8 and dumping 7-10 quarts of oil on the track for your racing buddies to slide through... Your thoughts on this are appreciated!
- We're going to start with a pretty basic spec miata suspension with stiffer front springs. We've got some options of where to go from there, as we have adjustable Koni's and JRZ's sitting around from previous ITA efforts.
- Brakes! Still not sure what exactly we're going to do. We're contemplating everything from bbundy's Mini set up to something custom that EGR has put toegether using 3rd (2nd?) gen RX7 calipers and an E30 rotor in the front and the 2001+ MX-5 sport option brakes in the back, as they bolt right up. To get the car rolling on the track, we'll probably just use 1.8 stock brakes or a set of early Wilwood "big brakes" from another miata that we have.
Current Status:
- Cage is mostly in the car as noted above.
- Engine and tranny have been in and out of the car several times to get all the fab work done correctly before welding it all back up and painting it.
- Frame rail reinforcements are welded in place.
- I've got the wiring harness and will be sending the PCM off to PoconoJoe (from LS1Tech) for a computer reflash to get rid of the stuff we don't need.
- Front subframe is back in the car
- Sanderson compact headers acquired and on the engine for fitment in the engine compartment.
- Shandelle has promised delivery of the diff mounting kit and axles in the next two weeks, which will be just in time for us.
Progress will be sort of slow as the Spec Miata racing season is just getting underway, and that takes up a lot of time for all the players involved. I'm shooting for a May track debut, but if we get a couple solid weekends in, it could happen in April. By June, I promise!!
Shandelle has already proven to be a big help to us and has delivered exactly what he's promised! I am very confident that we hitched our wagon to the right vendor for this endeavor.
Here are a few quick videos. Nothing particularly interesting except the walkaround of the cage, which is impressive.
Engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1nPw8geTdg
V8Roadsters Subframe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0eF2ZHw31E
Evil Genius Racing cage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-41PdDRPK74
Sanderson headers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYVslQpc6e4
At Texas World Speedway this weekend doing some driver coaching and then several weekends of Spec Miata racing in California. Progress will be slow for the next month, but April will be a big month!
Cheers,
Dean
03-06-2009, 05:20 PM
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I was thinking about ordering those headers too, but read quite a few bad things about them. Mainly people just saying they are poor quality for the price. I hope they work out for you though.
Glad to see some updates. Now where is the car?!? haha
Glad to see some updates. Now where is the car?!? haha
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03-14-2009, 11:06 AM
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Car isn't even done and it's getting some press 
I'm heading up to the shop tomorrow to get some work done on it. In the mean time, here's evidence that it actually exists:
http://jalopnik.com/5169926/which-wo...ed-mazda-miata
Feel free to vote so the LS1 miata beats the 928 in the poll!
Cheers,
Dean
I'm heading up to the shop tomorrow to get some work done on it. In the mean time, here's evidence that it actually exists:http://jalopnik.com/5169926/which-wo...ed-mazda-miata
Feel free to vote so the LS1 miata beats the 928 in the poll!
Cheers,
Dean
03-16-2009, 05:07 PM
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Making some progress I finally have some photographic evidence of progress!
In particular, I'd like to point out the really nice work that John and Clint from Evil Genius Racing have done in the fabrication work under the hood. See the 3rd and 4th pics attached. In other builds that I've seen, folks have cut out the flat section of the frame rails to make room for the engine but haven't reinforced those corners. The engineer in me thinks that could severly weaken the rigidity of those front frame rails, especially when you see how thick the metal is that you're cutting out. The EGR guys have done a nice job at radius'ing (not sure that's the right term) those corners and reinforcing them with some additional metal.
We also reinforced the transmission crossmember with a vertical piece of metal (you can see this in the last photo) to add a LOT of rigidity to this piece.
Another one of the attached photos shows how we've attached the front of cage to the tranny tunnel. This tunnel is one of the strongest parts of the car, so it should add a lot of torsional rigidity to the car - necessary with all the torque we intend to send through the chassis!
Also installed most of a spec miata suspension this weekend (but with different spring rates) and the Walbro 255 fuel pump. That was easy!
I also learned that not all LS2 waterpumps are the same. Apparently, only the one from the vette has the shorter snout. So, I've got one of those on order.
There will be a two week hiatus as we go spec miata racing the next two weekends.
Cheers,
Dean
In particular, I'd like to point out the really nice work that John and Clint from Evil Genius Racing have done in the fabrication work under the hood. See the 3rd and 4th pics attached. In other builds that I've seen, folks have cut out the flat section of the frame rails to make room for the engine but haven't reinforced those corners. The engineer in me thinks that could severly weaken the rigidity of those front frame rails, especially when you see how thick the metal is that you're cutting out. The EGR guys have done a nice job at radius'ing (not sure that's the right term) those corners and reinforcing them with some additional metal.
We also reinforced the transmission crossmember with a vertical piece of metal (you can see this in the last photo) to add a LOT of rigidity to this piece.
Another one of the attached photos shows how we've attached the front of cage to the tranny tunnel. This tunnel is one of the strongest parts of the car, so it should add a lot of torsional rigidity to the car - necessary with all the torque we intend to send through the chassis!
Also installed most of a spec miata suspension this weekend (but with different spring rates) and the Walbro 255 fuel pump. That was easy!
I also learned that not all LS2 waterpumps are the same. Apparently, only the one from the vette has the shorter snout. So, I've got one of those on order.
There will be a two week hiatus as we go spec miata racing the next two weekends.
Cheers,
Dean
03-25-2009, 10:10 PM
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Dang, somehow i didn't see these updates. Mainly because i was working on my Miata i guess. haha Glad to see some progress, and yes i agree that it only makes sense to add some metal back where you cut it out in the engine bay. So far so good!
03-26-2009, 10:16 AM
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Thanks, Dark! We have one more weekend of racing before a lull, then we'll really get some work done on the car. All of the rear-end pieces shipped from V8Roadsters last week, so there is nothing really standing in our way from making this thing move under its own power.
Does anyone have a favorite thread/resource for attacking the wiring? It's the ONLY thing left on the car that gives me a lot of anxiety... I've looked at Nathan's website and the Flyin' Miata Elvis build sites, but neither provide the level of detail I'd like to make it *easy* for me... which is what it's all about, right?
I've got my PCM out to poconoJoe for a reflash right now and I think I've got my LS1 harness all figured out, but I'm still not completely sure what hooks up to what, and the thought of spending 600-1200 for a custom harness kills me.
Nathan's instructions are good, but I'm a little confused by which connectors he's referring to when he says: The LS1 wiring harness has 5 main connectors besides the 2 PCM connectors. 3 big connectors and 2 small connectors. Locate the 3 big connectors and cut the 5 pink wires (note: one of the wires might be pink/black). These wires need to go to a 12V switched source that is fused (only gets power when in the run and start positions). We recommend using white/red wire that can be found under the hood of the Miata on an 8-pin gray connector. This wire is a fused 30amp circuit that previously powered the Miata engine.
Any insight is appreciated!
Cheers,
Dean
Does anyone have a favorite thread/resource for attacking the wiring? It's the ONLY thing left on the car that gives me a lot of anxiety... I've looked at Nathan's website and the Flyin' Miata Elvis build sites, but neither provide the level of detail I'd like to make it *easy* for me... which is what it's all about, right?
I've got my PCM out to poconoJoe for a reflash right now and I think I've got my LS1 harness all figured out, but I'm still not completely sure what hooks up to what, and the thought of spending 600-1200 for a custom harness kills me.
Nathan's instructions are good, but I'm a little confused by which connectors he's referring to when he says: The LS1 wiring harness has 5 main connectors besides the 2 PCM connectors. 3 big connectors and 2 small connectors. Locate the 3 big connectors and cut the 5 pink wires (note: one of the wires might be pink/black). These wires need to go to a 12V switched source that is fused (only gets power when in the run and start positions). We recommend using white/red wire that can be found under the hood of the Miata on an 8-pin gray connector. This wire is a fused 30amp circuit that previously powered the Miata engine.
Any insight is appreciated!
Cheers,
Dean
03-26-2009, 12:12 PM
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The 3 big connectors are the ones that go to the factory F-Body fuse box, the 2 small ones are the ones that have an extra length to go towards the dash. They are all located close to where the PCM plugs in. The dash wires extend about 2' out though. Just look at the plugs, and it shouldn't be hard to find the 5 pink wires and 2 orange wires. (I only have 1 orange wire since i have a 99 harness) Just look up the pinouts in the FAQ section. That should help out a lot. Wiring in the LS1 harness is a breeze.
Hopefully that helps out a little.
Hopefully that helps out a little.
03-26-2009, 12:27 PM
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Ah, ok. I guess once I have all the connectors that connect to the ENGINE actually connected to the engine, there will only be a few left over...
Would the connectors you're referring to be some of those listed as "F-Body Specific" in this picture/list?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...ification.html
Thanks for all the help!
Dean
Would the connectors you're referring to be some of those listed as "F-Body Specific" in this picture/list?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...ification.html
Thanks for all the help!
Dean
03-26-2009, 01:53 PM
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Yes, those are the plugs. You will find your pink and orange wires that need switched and constant power in numbers 43, 44, and 45. Numbers 36 and 37 are the ones that lead toward the dash where you will find your other wires necessary to hook up to gauges and such.
03-26-2009, 02:48 PM
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You're the man!! Thanks, Brother.
Now I'm looking forward to the wiring instead of dreading it...
The weekend of April 4/5th will be a big one for us. Fuel system, entire driveline, clutch slave and master, wiring, new waterpump and pulleys. We're going to change out the bearings in the existing motor just as a precautionary measure, and as I've mentioned before, the car will have a 3qt accusump from day one.
Thanks again for the detailed answers.
Cheers,
Dean
Now I'm looking forward to the wiring instead of dreading it...
The weekend of April 4/5th will be a big one for us. Fuel system, entire driveline, clutch slave and master, wiring, new waterpump and pulleys. We're going to change out the bearings in the existing motor just as a precautionary measure, and as I've mentioned before, the car will have a 3qt accusump from day one.
Thanks again for the detailed answers.
Cheers,
Dean
04-12-2009, 12:31 PM
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Slow progress, but progress.
The 8.8 is mounted in the car. Actually, it's just a spare diff in for fitment there until we build the limited slip unit that we'll actually be running in the car.
The axles are a thing of beauty. The V8 Roadsters guys did a VERY nice job with them. Here's one of the axles next to a stock miata axle.
We've used stock rear brakes from a 2001 Miata with the sport suspension.
Front brakes are going on in another week or so.
We've also installed the wilwood clutch master cylinder and the remote bleed line. Everything bolted up nicely, but we haven't filled it and tested it yet, As I'm sure the engine and tranny will come out again a couple more times before we're all finished. We've gotten pretty good at dropping the engine/tranny/subframe combo...
We've run into a few stumbling blocks on the front of the engine. The Corvette LS6 water pump interferes with the steam lines on the top of the block and the throttle body "warming" nipples. So, we're bypassing the throttle body and had to bend the other nipple out of the way. I'm also trying to figure out the right thermostat/inlet combo.
Next week, the axles, diff and driveshaft are going in. Electrical and cooling are also on the list. The fuel system is complete (no pics of that, though).
Cheers,
Dean
The 8.8 is mounted in the car. Actually, it's just a spare diff in for fitment there until we build the limited slip unit that we'll actually be running in the car.
The axles are a thing of beauty. The V8 Roadsters guys did a VERY nice job with them. Here's one of the axles next to a stock miata axle.
We've used stock rear brakes from a 2001 Miata with the sport suspension.
Front brakes are going on in another week or so.
We've also installed the wilwood clutch master cylinder and the remote bleed line. Everything bolted up nicely, but we haven't filled it and tested it yet, As I'm sure the engine and tranny will come out again a couple more times before we're all finished. We've gotten pretty good at dropping the engine/tranny/subframe combo...
We've run into a few stumbling blocks on the front of the engine. The Corvette LS6 water pump interferes with the steam lines on the top of the block and the throttle body "warming" nipples. So, we're bypassing the throttle body and had to bend the other nipple out of the way. I'm also trying to figure out the right thermostat/inlet combo.
Next week, the axles, diff and driveshaft are going in. Electrical and cooling are also on the list. The fuel system is complete (no pics of that, though).
Cheers,
Dean
04-12-2009, 01:15 PM
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Hey are the steam lines you are refering to the ones that are on the front of the engine going from head to head? If so you can just take them and place them on the rear of the engine and extend the coolant line.
04-20-2009, 07:39 PM
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Come on! Where are the updates?!? haha Keep up the hard work. Just got mine cranked up yesterday, and i'm getting the rear end situated over the next couple weeks.
04-20-2009, 07:47 PM
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Seems like "progress" at this point is us circling the car for a couple hours every Saturday, realizing there are 6 more parts I need to buy...
Crown molding trumped V8 miata this past weekend, I'm crewing for my wife who's racing her Spec Miata this weekend and THEN we'll make some more progress!!
I think I finally have all the right corvette parts for the front end of the motor. The next time we're with the car we should be ready to wire it up and crank it for the first time.
John from Evil Genius is building the differential this week, so the final driveline can finally be installed.
I've got a high school auto shop painting the car, so we have to get it to them before school is out!!
Too much to do. Too little time.
Cheers,
Dean
Crown molding trumped V8 miata this past weekend, I'm crewing for my wife who's racing her Spec Miata this weekend and THEN we'll make some more progress!!
I think I finally have all the right corvette parts for the front end of the motor. The next time we're with the car we should be ready to wire it up and crank it for the first time.
John from Evil Genius is building the differential this week, so the final driveline can finally be installed.
I've got a high school auto shop painting the car, so we have to get it to them before school is out!!
Too much to do. Too little time.
Cheers,
Dean