2006_Superado

iTrader: (3)

hey guys,
i have a 73 nova that i bought a couple months ago when i decided i wanted to do this project.. i have a 06 silverado Vmax with a 6.0 LQ9/4L70E and it's only got 30k on it. the trucks ruff but is driveable and has a very strong drivetrain, it's complete afa all the mechanicals and electronics go.

i've been searching on here for info for a while on and off, but have realy started trying to peice together the puzzle now that i have some money to order enough parts to get started..
but i'm still going crazy on the details since no one has a one size fits all swap kit and i can't even find any particular car that has a proven combo that meets my needs that i could duplicate?.. either they have custom mounts, hacked up pan's or pricey aftermarket ones, custom steering, and so on... i'm ready to order parts for the swap, but i just don't know what to order yet?.

i know this has been said before and i'll say it again i'm on a tight budget for this project i dont want fancy i just want functional and reliable. there has to be some mount that will set the engine far enough back that a camaro or cts-v pan will work without having to spend more money to cut it and weld it up.. otherwise i might as well use my truck pan.. but it still hangs down a bit even after getting chopped 2" like frojoe did on his 72 nova. at that point i'd be better off with an lh8 pan.. so you could see where i'm getting confused i would think the hooker mounts (or edelbrocks) would be best since they set the engine the furthest back right? also i'm hoping that since i'm using the truck accessories that i wont have to notch the frame any right?.

anyway my goal right now is to get it mounted into the nova, and then worry about the wireing and fuel later.. so if i could get some help from you guys, if anyone has a combo that worked in a 67-69 fbody or 68-74 xbody that used a pan as-is without it hanging too low and cleared all the factory steering and crossmember it would be greatly appreciated.

on a side note i wouldn't even be atempting this swap if it wasn't for this site lots of great info and it builds my confidence knowing so many others have done this already.. thanks in advance for your input.

david.

2006_Superado

iTrader: (3)

nobody yet huh?... any input would be greatly appreciated.

and to correct what i said above about frojoe's pan, he actually chopped off 2-1/2" and it fits well with his carshop mounts and doesn't hang too low.. but i would still like to use the edelbrock or hooker mounts just so i know when i upgrade to long tubes i'll know which one's will fit my car's set up.

so the pan choice is still up in the air unless someone could confirm if the truck pan would work with either the edelbrock or hooker mounts.. another choice i might look into although pricey is the autokraft pan.. it allows you to keep the filter in the pan instead of using a remote filter like the other aftermarket pans.

i did call edelbrock today and they said they used the cts-v pan for mock up with there kit.
and hooker said they used the fbody pan with theres.. but he couldn't verify wheter it was sectioned or not.. i may have to call them back and speak to someone more knowledgeable.

if i did use the truck pan, would a camaro pickup work if i had it cut the same as frojoe's?... or would another pickup be better?. also could i keep my dipstick?.

Old Kid

Think positive! If that Nova was here in the northeast, you would start the project by replacing all the rusted sheetmetal! Your car looks clean. Lots of guys listing their early fbody and Nova swaps on this site. You should be able to find lots of good info and pictures. Also check out the vendor's sites for pics and info. Search the stickys for oil pan info. I would suggest not to order too many parts in advance. Things change! Start by sliding your engine and trans into place. Maybe buy just the engine mount plates to start. Don't worry about the small stuff like dipsticks yet. You may use a different pan later. It appears that even on a common swap like your's, guys sometimes change plans half way into the project. Go slow one step at a time. Search this forum for specific questions. Have fun!

2006_Superado

iTrader: (3)

we find our fair share of rust buckets out here as well, but i was lucky enough to find this one in great shape.. with only a couple of spots of rust in the lower corners.. but the rest is pristine. so yes i'm very happy about that.
i've looked at a lot of the f-body/nova swaps and not one of them is doing it the same as i want to.. i've searched the stickys and theres no clear answer on a perect pan and mount combo..
take all this into consideration.. i'm using a truck LQ9 engine with truck accessories, and a 4L70E. also i would like to use the stock pan or a stock pan that doesn't need to be moddified at the same time i dont want it to hang low and be a problem.. i'm using the stock manifolds for now but would like to be able to use an off the shelf header when i upgrade in the future so you see there is no straight answer for my goals.. so i think what i will do is buy the cheap plates or edelbrocks and just get it in there like you said and go from there. i'll probably leave the stock pan for now just for mock up and switch it out later once i can see exactly what i need... so i guess i'm going to have to stop procrastinating and just dive in.
so thanks anyway.

and if anyone has some answers or ideas anyway, feel free to post them up...

68 RS Convertible

iTrader: (1)

I used the hooker plates and headers with an f body oil pan on my first gen camaro. Did not have to cut up or modify the pan and everything cleared my suspension. The headers were kind of expensive, in my opinion, but in the end it was worth it because I didn't have to modify anything. I don't know if you were looking at headers or were just going to use the truck manifolds but even if you used the hooker mounting plates you should be able to use the stock f body oil pan without any modification (or at least I would hope so). Good Luck, if you want any pics let me know and I will try and get some to you.
Greg

2006_Superado

iTrader: (3)

hello greg,
i was going to call hooker and edelbrock on monday to see if i can confirm that there swaps were done without modding the pans.. if you have pics, and it isn't to much trouble then sure i would appreciate it.

also like i said in in my last post, i'm going to use the truck manifolds for now.. but i want whatever plate i go with to be compatible with some type of long tube headers when i do upgrade later. so this is why i'm interested in the hookers or edelbrocks more then anything.

also what drive train and accessorie combo did you use, and did you have to notch your frame for anything?.
thanks.

david.

68 RS Convertible

iTrader: (1)

I'd be happy to get you some pictures, what specifically are you looking for? Just so I can get you the most usefull pictures. I am running the truck accessories with an f body water pump. I had to swap the f body pulley for the truck pulley to make it work. I am not running the a/c (my cars a convertible so I just drop the top!!). I do know there are different frame mounts (tall and short). I don't know which ones I have but I just posted some pics of my frame mounts in another thread, https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...illing-me.html. Let me know what other pictures would be helpfull and I will post some for you.

Greg

2006_Superado

iTrader: (3)

hey greg,
first off thanks for being so helpful that other thread answers a few questions as well.. if i'm right it looks like you have about an 1"-1-1/2" of room between the heads and the firewall is that about right?...

also why did you go with the Fbody water pump over the truck one, was there a radiator clearance problem or was it just for looks?..

and as far as pictures go, i would like a couple angles of the clearances with the truck accessories from both sides to get an idea how it clears. because i'm going to need the A/C since mine is a hardtop which i plan on making a daily driver.. and living in the dessert it gets hot in the summer

and it was a little hard to tell how much clearance there was between the header and gearbox, if you can get a little wider shot of that from the front it would be great.
thanks again.

david.

68 RS Convertible

iTrader: (1)

I'd say I do have about 1 1/2 inch or so, I'll try to conform that for you. I went with the f body water pump mostly for the asthetics, I felt it gave a cleaner look than the truck water pump. I'll try and get you some pictures with a ruler in the shot for better referance.

Greg

2006_Superado

iTrader: (3)

thanks greg,
looking forward to the pics...

david.

68 RS Convertible

iTrader: (1)

I hope these help, it is was tough to get some good shots because there was so much crap in the way (radiator hoses, heater hoses, etc.). I couldn't get any front views, nothing of use came out. I couldn't get anything better for the headers either. I can tell you that the tube for cylinder 3 there is about 3/8 of an inch of clearance. For cylinder 5 there is well over an inch, maybe an inch and a half. I may have some pics of a mock up I did with the truck pan. I'll try and find them and will post them for you also. Let me know if you need anything else. Good Luck!

Greg

68 RS Convertible

iTrader: (1)

Here are the other pictures I was talking about David. I think if you wanted to save some money you could use your truck pan, as you can see from the picture it will clear the frame. Now how much movement are you going to see when this thing rolls from the torque? The only reason I didn't use the truck pan myself is because I am lazy and for me, the time it would have taken to cut the truck pan, then have it welded up, it was easier for me to go with the f body pan. That gamble paid off for me because my pan cleared everything, not everyone is as lucky as me. But if you wanted to I'm sure you could save some coin and make it work. Take a look at the sticky at the top that shows the dimensions of the oil pans. Looks to me like the middle part of the f body hangs a little lower than the truck, but the actual sump of the truck is much lower. I used the truck windage tray with the f body pick up. I had to midify the windage tray where the pick up bolts down as there was a clearance issue. So if you wanted to chop your truck pan, get an f body pick up, or modify your truck pick up you could make it work, probably for cheaper than a used f body pan.
Just my opinion.

Greg

2006_Superado

iTrader: (3)

hey greg,
thanks for the pics. it looks to me like the a/c is going to be a tight fit if it will even work?... if i decided to raise up the frame mounts lets say a 1/4" for pan clearance or for the a/c do you think that would cause a problem with your headers or would it increase clearance?.
also i don't see any of the steering components on your car under the truck pan, did you remove them for the install or replace them?.. either way do you know if your steering cleared the truck pan with the hooker mounts?.
and do you have a picture of the either the truck or Fbody pan with the steering installed.
and i know the ground clearance is good with the Fbody pan, but how bad was it with the truck pan as pictured for mock up?.
thanks again.

david.

68 RS Convertible

iTrader: (1)

The area of the header that runs under the floor boards sets down quite a bit so, there is quite a bit of clearance between the header and the floor boards. I would say you would have plenty of room to raise everything up a 1/4 inch. I think that most guys that use the factory a/c mount have to notch the frame to make it work.
Yeah the second set of pics is just a spare sub frame I had. Those are not the motor or frame mount I used, I used the ones that were actually on the car. So that sub frame I mocked up with had no suspension.
Like I said before if you look at the dimensions of the two pans in that sticky when you first get into the Conversions and Hybrids section it looks to me like the middle of the truck pan, where the suspension will be running, sets up pretty nicely so I would have to say there would be no problem. Again I was too lazy to do the fab work and it was easier for me just to buy the f body pan (not that I'm made of money, I was just trying to get it together quicker). But I did have the Hooker plates on there (obviously) for the mock up. I just wanted to see if the front of the truck pan was going to clear the frame, which it did.
I don't think I have a picture that showed how far down the truck pan set, but it was a couple of inchs below that center cross section of the frame, enough where it would have to be modified to be safely run.

Greg

Project Nova

iTrader: (1)

Hi David,

Are you planning to use the clam shell motor mounts original to the 73s and up? I was looking on all the message boards and haven't found anyone using the clamshell mounts for the 73 LSx/LQx conversion. Any idea if the 68-72 Nova motor mounts will fit and work with clearances for the accessories and oil pan?

Joey

frojoe

iTrader: (10)

The 68-72 SBC mounts should fit fine with the adapter plates. The truck power steering pump has enough clearance (roughly 3/4") to the driver-side upper control arm. The alternator on the truck accessory system fits underneath the stock hood. The only unsure part of the accessories would be the A/C compressor, but it seems like on all the 1st gen Camaro's the subframe has to be notched.

frojoe

iTrader: (10)

Hey David,

Sorry I just now noticed that you posted in my thread... Did I ever get back to you about your PM? If I didn't, sorry I must have just forgotten, my memory isn't so hot.

When I put my the LQ4 in for the first time, and using the Carshop/S&P adapter plates with SBC engine mounts, the engine sat ~1inch further forward from the bellhousing than the old small block did. The Hooker plates move the engine back 1 inch from where my mounts put it (to where it should be) because on my plates, one of the holes is shared between the mount and the adapter, so a single bolt goes all the way through this, forcing the mount to be at a certain location on the adapter plate. What the Hooker plates do is have completely separate holes for the mount-to-plate bolts and the plate-to-block bolts. This provides a lot of design freedom since the mount could essentially bolt onto the plate at any point desired, and in the Hooker case this allows the engine to be offset back so that the back of the engine is exactly where the back of a sbc would be.

You're Correct that ideally the engine would be as close to the firewall as possible to improve weight distribution. On my car, there is about 2" between the back of the block and the firewall. I went with the Carshop plates because 1) I could thread a decent bolt into the back of the heads to allow 2front and 2rear lifting points, 2) I wasn't using an F-body pan so I wasn't too concerned about draglink-oilpan clearance, and 3) I was re-using the truck intake manifold and it's got a protruding back that extends past the back of the block.

I am now thinking that I really don't like how my oil pan still hangs below the x-member, so I might get an F-body pan, make my own adapter plates to get the engine as close to the firewall (and pan as far from drag link) as possible, and just make myself a lifting plate that bolts-to/replaces the valley cover, so that I can still hoist the engine back out.

Hope this helps, don't hesitate to PM or whatever, I will actually respond!

Joe

2006_Superado

iTrader: (3)

hey joey,
i hate to sound like an idiot but i have no idea whats the difference between the mounts... i'm still learning all this stuff my self.. but i think frojoe already answered your question above..
hey joe,
you did answer my pm a couple months ago back, so don't sweat it.
and afa the answer to joeys question above.. what is the difference between the 68-72 sbc and 73-up mounts?.. and is it something i need to worry about or will either work when i get around to it?.. i can take pics of my frame mounts if it helps?.
i'm not sure what it cost to have the pan cut and welded, but it seems to me i'd be better off just giving the $200-$250 and getting the cts-v or Fbody pan and getting it done right the first time so i don't have to mess with it again in the future.
are you going to be making that engine lift plate anytime soon, if you can make me one i'd pay you for it.. i think i seen somewhere that they wanted like $60 bucks for one which is ridiculous. or if you know the dimensions needed i'll have a machine shop make one for me. either way let me know.
if i have any other questions i'll let you know.
thanks again.

david.

frojoe

iTrader: (10)

The the valley lift plate design work has already been figured out for us! Check https://ls1tech.com/forums/10804758-post15.html out, maybe just PM hookemdevils22 and get the dimensions from him, I might do that when I get around to making it, but can't say exactly when that'll be.

The '73+ mount is the "clamshell" type and looks like this:



and the '72-earlier mount (this one being short & wide) looks like this:



From the looks of it, the bolt that goes through either mount and then bolts onto the frame mounts would likely be held closer to the block with the clamshell mounts, thus lowering the engine, but I'm not positive on this since my car didn't come with clamshell mounts!

72VenturaII

iTrader: (32)

I believe the top picture is the clamshell frame mount and the stamped steel clamshell bolts to the motor. The bottom is the '72 and earlier motor mount (or at least one of them). Either system should leave the motor in the same place when all the correct parts are bolted together.