Cali vs Federal LS engines
03-05-2010, 11:13 PM
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Cali vs Federal LS engines Hi everyone, been lurking and was hoping i wouldnt need to start posting questions, but this one has proven difficult to find out:
What are the differences between california spec and federal spec LS engines, mainly in regard to the LS1? The reason I want to know is that I want to do a swap in the future into a car and get it reffed here in california to make it street legal. If all it took to make a federal engine pass as a california engine was a quick reflash of the ecu, then that would be one less thing to worry about.
On a side note, after days of researching, cali smog laws are pissing me off ...
What are the differences between california spec and federal spec LS engines, mainly in regard to the LS1? The reason I want to know is that I want to do a swap in the future into a car and get it reffed here in california to make it street legal. If all it took to make a federal engine pass as a california engine was a quick reflash of the ecu, then that would be one less thing to worry about.
On a side note, after days of researching, cali smog laws are pissing me off ...
03-06-2010, 11:13 AM
#2
move.
lol
lol
03-06-2010, 04:43 PM
#4
I second that motion. J/K One guy was asking about another states **** smog laws and the more I read the more depressed I got.
On the flip side, since I'm sure moving isn't an option. I know it can be done but I don't know how. Think positive... and good luck!
03-06-2010, 08:59 PM
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I'd sniff around this website, http://www.bar.ca.gov/, Pretty sure all it has to do is pass visual and smog testing for the VIN of the vehicle the enigne was pulled from.
03-06-2010, 09:27 PM
#7
Here is some more info on Calif Smog Law on swapping ...
California Engine Change Guidelines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a Guideline taken from the California DMV .GOV site. It is neither a comprehensive nor a step by step guideline to follow, but is a good starting point to understand what it would take to make a 1976 and newer Car/Truck Smog Compliant
Engine Change GuidelinesOverview
Engine changes continue to present problems and challenges to car owners and technicians. Here are some tips to keep you and your customers on the straight and narrow.
Our recommendation is to rebuild and reinstall the original engine, transmission, and emission control configuration.
When rebuilding an engine, it must be rebuilt to the original equipment specifications. However, if you do decide to change the engine, these guidelines must be observed to ensure that the vehicle will be eligible for smog certification or registration.
Remember, these are guidelines for performing engine changes – not certification procedures. All exhaust emission controlled vehicles with engine changes must be inspected by an official referee station and must have a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Vehicle Identification Label affixed to the doorpost.
Remember also, state and federal anti–tampering laws generally prohibit any modification to the vehicle's original emission control system configuration as certified by the manufacturer. And, Section 3362.1 of the California Code of Regulations prohibits any engine change that degrades the effectiveness of a vehicle's emission control system.
California Certification
A federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) certified (federal or 49–state) engine cannot be used in a vehicle that was originally certified for California.
Certification Standards
Make sure the engine and emission control configuration on exhaust – controlled vehicles are certified to the year of the vehicle or newer, and to the same or a more stringent new vehicle certification standard.
Classification
Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications which will degrade the emissions certification standards. For example, a heavy–duty engine cannot be installed in a light–duty exhaust–controlled chassis even if they have the same displacement. Non–emissions controlled power plants such as industrial or off–road–use–only engines may not be placed in any exhaust–controlled vehicle.
Computer Controls
If a computer–controlled engine is installed in a non–computerized vehicle, the "CHECK ENGINE" light, the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) diagnostic link, and all sensors, switches, and wiring harnesses needed to make the system fully functional must also be installed.
Emission Control Configuration
Mixing and matching emission control system components could cause problems and is generally not allowed. Engine and emission control systems must be in an engine–chassis configuration certified by the California Air Resources Board (ARB) or U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The engine must meet or exceed the requirements for the year and class of vehicle in which it is installed.
Emission Warranty
Voiding the vehicle manufacturer's emission warranty is not allowed.
Engine Modifications
No internal or external engine modifications (cams, pistons, intakes, etc.) may be performed unless the parts are ARB–exempted or EPA–certified for use in the installed engine. Use the database on this site to search for aftermarket parts covered by ARB Executive Orders.
Original Equipment
The installed engine and host chassis must retain all of their original emission control equipment. Diesel–to–gasoline conversions must have all gasoline engine and chassis emission control systems installed (such as fillpipe restrictor, catalytic converter and evaporative emission system).
Smog Inspection
These vehicles must pass a complete smog inspection (visual, functional, and tailpipe).
Be sure to check for updates on California's DMV and other gov site for your correct Be sure to check for updates on California's DMV and other gov site for your correct intruptation of the California Law or any other State Law.
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...uidelines.html
California Engine Change Guidelines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a Guideline taken from the California DMV .GOV site. It is neither a comprehensive nor a step by step guideline to follow, but is a good starting point to understand what it would take to make a 1976 and newer Car/Truck Smog Compliant
Engine Change GuidelinesOverview
Engine changes continue to present problems and challenges to car owners and technicians. Here are some tips to keep you and your customers on the straight and narrow.
Our recommendation is to rebuild and reinstall the original engine, transmission, and emission control configuration.
When rebuilding an engine, it must be rebuilt to the original equipment specifications. However, if you do decide to change the engine, these guidelines must be observed to ensure that the vehicle will be eligible for smog certification or registration.
Remember, these are guidelines for performing engine changes – not certification procedures. All exhaust emission controlled vehicles with engine changes must be inspected by an official referee station and must have a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Vehicle Identification Label affixed to the doorpost.
Remember also, state and federal anti–tampering laws generally prohibit any modification to the vehicle's original emission control system configuration as certified by the manufacturer. And, Section 3362.1 of the California Code of Regulations prohibits any engine change that degrades the effectiveness of a vehicle's emission control system.
California Certification
A federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) certified (federal or 49–state) engine cannot be used in a vehicle that was originally certified for California.
Certification Standards
Make sure the engine and emission control configuration on exhaust – controlled vehicles are certified to the year of the vehicle or newer, and to the same or a more stringent new vehicle certification standard.
Classification
Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications which will degrade the emissions certification standards. For example, a heavy–duty engine cannot be installed in a light–duty exhaust–controlled chassis even if they have the same displacement. Non–emissions controlled power plants such as industrial or off–road–use–only engines may not be placed in any exhaust–controlled vehicle.
Computer Controls
If a computer–controlled engine is installed in a non–computerized vehicle, the "CHECK ENGINE" light, the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) diagnostic link, and all sensors, switches, and wiring harnesses needed to make the system fully functional must also be installed.
Emission Control Configuration
Mixing and matching emission control system components could cause problems and is generally not allowed. Engine and emission control systems must be in an engine–chassis configuration certified by the California Air Resources Board (ARB) or U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The engine must meet or exceed the requirements for the year and class of vehicle in which it is installed.
Emission Warranty
Voiding the vehicle manufacturer's emission warranty is not allowed.
Engine Modifications
No internal or external engine modifications (cams, pistons, intakes, etc.) may be performed unless the parts are ARB–exempted or EPA–certified for use in the installed engine. Use the database on this site to search for aftermarket parts covered by ARB Executive Orders.
Original Equipment
The installed engine and host chassis must retain all of their original emission control equipment. Diesel–to–gasoline conversions must have all gasoline engine and chassis emission control systems installed (such as fillpipe restrictor, catalytic converter and evaporative emission system).
Smog Inspection
These vehicles must pass a complete smog inspection (visual, functional, and tailpipe).
Be sure to check for updates on California's DMV and other gov site for your correct Be sure to check for updates on California's DMV and other gov site for your correct intruptation of the California Law or any other State Law.
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...uidelines.html
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03-07-2010, 04:56 AM
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Thanks for the replies guys. I have become well acquainted with what the california DMV has to say about swaps and experiences from others as well. If I bought a california LS1 with computer and wires, I have no doubt that I can make it pass. What I am trying to find out is if i can look for motors nationwide or just california for the swap.
This is just what I am looking for. I have a hunch that all the motors are the same. It just occurred to me to search to see if 98 -2001 camaro's are 50 state emmissions legal or are split btw 49 fed and cali. I want the ref to think that the motor is from california or if the donor car is 50 state legal, then the point is moot.
This is just what I am looking for. I have a hunch that all the motors are the same. It just occurred to me to search to see if 98 -2001 camaro's are 50 state emmissions legal or are split btw 49 fed and cali. I want the ref to think that the motor is from california or if the donor car is 50 state legal, then the point is moot.
Last edited by akaryrye; 03-07-2010 at 05:05 AM.
03-07-2010, 11:18 AM
#9
Also check here: www.semasan.com. They have started a program in coordination with CA to retrofit modern engines into hot rods. They may be able to give you some advise.
Pat
Pat
07-27-2010, 03:08 AM
#10
fed cars vs. cali cars I bought my Florida 02 B4C and noticed right away that the under hood sticker says california emissions compliant. I'm glad cause iv'e moved from Dallas (where you can run no cats, slp loudmouth with no muffler and NOT get pulled over!!!) to living in Berkeley where there are tree huggers on ever corner crawling outta the woodwork!!
07-27-2010, 05:05 AM
#11
Most vehicles are 50 State compliant or CA compliant so you shouldn't have to worry about that. As far as the swap, as long as all the emissions components are present and in working order for that model/year vehicle that engine came out of, you will have no issues. ie. if you use a 2000 and older engine from a Camaro you will need HO2s(4), Cats, EGR, AIR, etc. On a 01-up you won't need EGR. Just my .02
Btw I am a Licensed Smog Tech so let me know if you have any more questions
Btw I am a Licensed Smog Tech so let me know if you have any more questions
07-27-2010, 07:48 PM
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Classification
Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications which will degrade the emissions certification standards. For example, a heavy–duty engine cannot be installed in a light–duty exhaust–controlled chassis even if they have the same displacement. Non–emissions controlled power plants such as industrial or off–road–use–only engines may not be placed in any exhaust–controlled vehicle.
Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications which will degrade the emissions certification standards. For example, a heavy–duty engine cannot be installed in a light–duty exhaust–controlled chassis even if they have the same displacement. Non–emissions controlled power plants such as industrial or off–road–use–only engines may not be placed in any exhaust–controlled vehicle.
07-27-2010, 07:57 PM
#14
I am going to defer to BlueMagicSS, as he is a smog tech.. but from my understanding of the Calif DMV engine swap rules. your not supose to swap truck to car and car to truck. but I have had people say it is ok for light Duty truck engines to be used or swap in place of a car or car into truck.. but I will defer to the tech on this.
p.s. I am going to keep bluemagicss on file. I might have question in the future to ask, (not going to illegally pass anything tho, LOL)
p.s. I am going to keep bluemagicss on file. I might have question in the future to ask, (not going to illegally pass anything tho, LOL)
07-27-2010, 09:32 PM
#15
I am going to defer to BlueMagicSS, as he is a smog tech.. but from my understanding of the Calif DMV engine swap rules. your not supose to swap truck to car and car to truck. but I have had people say it is ok for light Duty truck engines to be used or swap in place of a car or car into truck.. but I will defer to the tech on this.
p.s. I am going to keep bluemagicss on file. I might have question in the future to ask, (not going to illegally pass anything tho, LOL)
p.s. I am going to keep bluemagicss on file. I might have question in the future to ask, (not going to illegally pass anything tho, LOL)
Since this has come up a few times recently, let me break out with my book and look for the ACTUAL law and I'll get back to you. In the meantime check out the link below about engine swap guidelines. It doesn't say light-duty truck to car or vice versa so I'm not EXACTLY sure but I don't think that would be an issue as long as all the emission controls are there and working.
Matt
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResource...uidelines.html
07-28-2010, 09:02 AM
#16
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from what i found when i was doing my swap back in 06. You cant swap a truck motor into a car but you could put a car motor into a truck. Must have every smog stuff that year car came with. Cats have to be in the factory location of that same year. So this what i was told back then. Not sure if the rules changed. What type of car are you planning of putting this into?
07-28-2010, 10:05 AM
#17
Matt. Yeah. I've read that and posted that link before for others in the past. that part about the Classification... is the part of interest
Classification
Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications which will degrade the emissions certification standards.
Classification
Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications which will degrade the emissions certification standards.
07-28-2010, 04:58 PM
#19
Ok.... I was on the phone with the BAR and this is what I got. You CANNOT swap a Heavy Duty Truck engine into a Light Duty Truck/Car ie. an F250 Engine into a Ranger. Basically no diesel into a gasoline car. BUT you CAN swap a Light Duty Truck engine into a Car because the emissions controls are the same. This is directly from a Technical Adviser at the BAR.
Matt
Matt
