I know a lot of forums with different information in the swaps but have a few specific questions hoping someone already experienced can assist with. I currently have a 4.6 2v with a full turbo setup that I'm selling everything except the turbo. I'm going for around 750-850 hp so after pricing it out LS is the obvious smarter choice. I'm parting my current setup for most of the budget on this build so trying to spend my money wisely.

I'm going with a gen 4 5.3 with a 4l80e.

I already have a tubular k member, so i know the obvious, need motor mounts, cross member, ecu, etc.

I have read someone using the stock ford driveshaft on a 4l60. I have a aluminium ford racing driveshaft and wonder if i can use it on this setup or should i get one built.

I think one of the things I'm going to spend a lot of money on will be the holley efi domimator for the simplicity and being able to tune it myself.

I really want to use my gauges, its a bullitt and the cluster is nice and want to keep it, what are my options on that?

This will be a turbo build, can anyone direct me on manifolds they've used or will I have to get some made.

As far as the lights and ignition read a few forums that it'll work like it used to. Any pointers on that?

Still in the process of pulling everything out, will post pictures as I go along. Any advice or other similar post would be greatly appreciated.

 

So I'll just go down the list of what you've rattled off, and give my input along the way.

4l80e will absolutely work, and depending on the K-Member and the mounts being used will depend on how much hammer you use for the trans tunnel. Stock K member, holley engine mount plates and 4.6 motor mounts will fit the 4l80e just fine in the OEM trans tunnel.

Stifflers makes a crossmember that uses the OEM trans crossmember mounts that is listed as a t56 crossmember, but I've seen someone use it for the 4l80e, just cannot recall the member.

I have heard the mustang driveshaft will work and is the correct length, it just needs the proper yoke and u joint. I believe the mustang drive shaft uses a 1330 u joint just like the driveshaft behind the 4l80e/4l60e. Research this as the u joint size I listed may or may not be wrong.

Holley EFI dominator is a great looking product, but if you are comfy with computers and numbers, you can get the HP Tuners pro suite for less than half and do it yourself with the OEM PCM. You cannot go wrong with either, just depends on what your wallet will allow. Also, re-wiring the OEM LS harness to stand alone isn't terribly difficult, but should definitely be taken seriously and slowly. I see so many people pulling the wrong pins or swapping the wrong wires entirely too often. Just take your time and read, read, read. http://lt1swap.com/wiringharness.htm will be your bible for the stand alone harness creation.

Gauges: You can use the stock stuff, but depending on the year of your mustang, the canbus system will need to be wired in parallel to your 5.3 PCM/dominator PCM. The GEM, PCM, CCRM and FPDM all are connected. The GEM controls alot of the extras like multifunction switch on the column for blinkers, windows, locks, lights, etc. CCRM controls power to the FPDM, and the FPDM controls the voltage to the fuel pump based on the fuel pressure. eliminating only one could cause issues, eliminating all will just be a headache. (I eliminated all, kept everything super simple like late 70's early 80's wiring. Just the necessities.)

Some guys use the stock manifolds flipped, cut the OEM flange off the collector and weld a v-band flange on. You can also buy super cheap forward facing turbo headers off ebay, but spark plug clearance is **** from what I've seen, and eliminates the possibility of using stock accessory drive. This just adds to the overall cost of the swap, moderately annoying, but can be easily fixed with new accessory mounts from multiple manufacturers.

Referring back to Gauges, if you have the canbus setup and you remove the GEM, ECM, Etc. you will lose the ability to control the windshield wiper switch as it works on specific OHM readings going into the GEM. Turn signals, lights, etc. all have signal wires that allow them to be powered once the GEM sees power and the correct key. GEM houses the anti theft garbage.

I've come to find that I'm into this swap on my 03 mustang for alot more money than expected. Which is fine, but unexpected. I also did too much too soon. Wiring in my case has been troublesome as I'm deleting all of the modules and going back to good ole' switches and relays for everything.

If you want to get it done fast, change/update the things that are absolutely necessary first, add fun stuff next.

If you don't care about time to completion, then do whatever you want. Just realize there are so many hidden costs and extras that you will always want and if you take your eyes off the prize, you'll end up on jackstands for the next year or so like me lol

 

Andler2008 had a lot of good info. I'm working on my second new edge swap right now so I can touch on some of this. I've got a lq4/4l80 and working on a 5.3/4l80.


If you want that kind of power please don't even consider a 4l60 just go right to the 4l80e. I hammered my tunnel in a little bit but nothing excessive, just a few spots like the shift linkage and electrical connector. I gave a few wacks around the rest but that was just for safe measure it actually fit like it was meant to be there. I used a 1330 slip yoke from denny's driveshaft and used my stock drive shaft it fit perfect. I used stock 4.6 motor mounts and made a set of adapter plates. If you google it you can buy some but for the cost I just made my own. I think UPR has a set. My trans crossmemeber I used my stock gt one and cut the mounts off the body and just welded them a little farther back and drilled out the crossmember. Fit very well.

To get the gauges like Andler2008 said youll have to strip your ford harness and basically feed the ecu everything it needs to think the engine is running. You'll need converter boxes for the speedo and tach to get the right signal. Fuel and voltage works regardless. Oil is actually a dummy 6psi switch from ford so that's not difficult. And coolant temp you can use your old sensor and just install it in the rear passenger head with an adapter or tap it. If your looking for budget friendly this can get very costly and I abandoned this after a few months of driving with no gauges. I installed a set of 2000 Camaro gauges. They look decent and work perfect.

I don't know much about the holley system but I think that hptuners and a stock computer with a reworked harness is the way to go. It'll control your trans instead of having to look for a separate controller which will add up for cost. The investment of hptuners was a big expense for me but I'm glad I did it because I've used it on my 2 cars and a few friends.

I'm running an ebay gt45 turbo with stock manifolds cut with 2.5" vbands installed. Turbo placement and exhaust routing was a pain. There isn't a ton of room on these cars and I have a stock K member so that didn't help. I planned most of my exhaust without my cooling system in so I had to redesign a lot after so I wont make that mistake again. As far as cooling goes I'm using the stock gt radiator and fans. No cooling issues so far. I've got a ls2 intake manifold, stock truck throttle body, decapped truck injectors, stock truck water pump, stock truck alternator. I used my GT powersteering pump with a bracket I made but I keep throwing the belt so I'm probably going to go electric that's my new project right now.

Everything works on my car as if it was just key on engine off. Lights, signals, heat (a/c is disconnected), wipers etc. If you want anymore info I'm happy to let you know what I've done or tried or what didn't work. I love the new edges so I love seeing them get repowered!

 

Did you ever make any progress on the electric power steering you mentioned here ??

 

holley plates and a 80e here. still needed a good deal of hammering for the shift selector, the electrical connector and the cooler lines. it DOES fit but its a BIG trans.

honestly i sort of wish i did a TH350/400 instead since i am not goign to be street driving mine at all the OD isnt really needed.


im thinking about hitting up a junkyard this weekend and looking for an electric power steering pump that i can use to keep power steering without the pulley driven pump.

 

Got it up and running shortly after this post. Works great didn't even have to change any hoses at all. Mounted it inside radius of the bumper on the drivers side. Couldn't be happier.

 

​​​​​​​Pics and part numbers?

 

 

I had one terrible pic when I was mocking it up. Next time the bumper is off I'll take better pics of it. Not sure of a part numbers it's an 05 Volvo pump. Google will probably get you the part number.

 

So if I run Fbody gages, how do I keep all the GEM and subsystems happy so that I still have wipers/lights/signals/etc? Does each of the modules (GEM) just get a const power, acc power, and ground? Also, if the security is still on the ford stuff and I lose a key, how do I re-key the car without the 4.6 ECM on it anymore???

 

Just feed power back into the stock mustang fuse block on the driver side fender and everything will work as it did as long as you didn't unplug anything except the engine harness. The key is just a key after the swap, so just get a regular $3 copy made. Since there isn't a ford computer running a ford engine the PATS system is useless. If you leave everything in place I believe even a key fob will work to lock and unlock the doors since that goes through the body module. The only thing I've noticed I lost function of is my rear defrost. I'm not positive but I think it somehow runs through the gauge cluster wiring. I can live without it though and worst case scenario is I rewire it to a separate relay. IF you've unplugged or removed more than just an engine harness you will have to do more research. Good luck.

 

So I leave the Ford ECM and everything still connected?

 

At least on the '99-04 models, everything is fairly independent. The main body control module is inside the dash, above the driver's left knee. It is a plastic box with a "DO NOT DROP" sticker on it. So long as that box is there and connected, it can run the power locks, windows, dome light, and so on. I don't know offhand whether the windshield wipers go through it or not. Probably. The airbag control module is in the center stack, and sits right on top of the transmission tunnel. I haven't been able to find any impact sensors elsewhere in the car, so I can only surmise that it just has its own accelerometer. You'll want to leave that plugged in and connected, otherwise the main BCM will make a lot of beeping noises every time you start the car. Factory ECU integration with the BCM is minimal at best. As far as I can tell, PATS is handled mostly by the ECU. Other noteworthy boxes/modules include the constant control relay module (CCRM), which is under the passenger's side front fender. I think that's used for some stuff like AC.

The lazy/easy way to swap a '99-04 Mustang is to just unbolt and remove the main engine wiring harness, disconnect and remove the instrument cluster (which is integrated with the factory ECU) and just add wiring for your own instruments, etc. If you can find room, or drill your own holes to run your wiring harness, that will probably work fine.

The slightly more ambitious way is to just delete all of the wiring related to the factory ECU. On my own car, I deleted the CCRM, the Ford ECU, and the entire wiring harness that goes through the passenger's side fender area. I only have one wire passing through the grommet in the passenger's side fender--the right turn signal/parking lamp. I seem to recall having to do something to bypass a neutral safety switch on the transmission (which runs through either the main engine wiring harness or the CCRM, don't remember), but that was basically just shorting two wires together so the ignition switch just directly triggers the starter, rather than running through all that stuff.

 

I'll check what the ECU sell for, if they bring something I'll pull it. How do I make the ford ac work if I delete the ccrm?

 

Did you come up with a plan for how you want this to lay out? I personally wouldn't sell anything until you figured out exactly what you're looking to achieve. If you want those stock gauges you'll need the pcm. This is what I did. The A/C I'm pretty sure needs the stock computer to meet certain criteria if you want the ford CCRM to run it. Actually I'm not even sure the CCRM runs the A/C it may just run the fans for the a/c, I've haven't gotten that far yet. Pretty sure I'm going this route with the LS compressor, just let the ford stuff control it. Or you can wire it all in to the GM PCM.... or hook it right to a switch!

I'd definitely get a plan in place before you just sell stuff. The 50-100 bucks for the ford pcm shouldn't be make it or break it. Just my 2 cents though.

 

i have a few questions I’m doing a similar swap in my 99 newedge I would pm you but I can’t do that with my account yet.

So to be clear I can remove just my Ford engine control module/wiring harness and power the oem engine bay fuse box and not have any issues with vats only losing rear defrost (idc about stock gauge cluster).

also did you ever get a/c working? I’d like to get ac working controlled by the gm pcm, but still using factory ac controls. all I’d need to get this to work theoretically is a ac request signal/wire but can You even get that from the Ford bcm?

 

You can remove whatever you want, but depending on your goals you're going to want to do some research on what is needed for factory controls. I always leave my factory ford pcm, ccrm, and bcm. I fed my pcm all the info it needed and my gauges work perfect, even my rear defrost. On another car I put a camaro gauge cluster in and didn't use anything in the ford pcm.
As for the factory A/C, I think it goes through the CCRM and the PCM, I can't remember if the BCM did anything for it. I never got around to hooking it up but what I came up with was that the ford outputted 12v to trigger the A/c. You can use this to trigger whatever a/c unit you have but I believe you have to feed the same 12v to the GM PCM to let it know that the A/C is on.

 

Thanks for the reply, i know this is an older thread.

I think there is a bit of confusion due in my part to my wording, I don't plan on to use the ford pcm for anything. I want to use the gm pcm to control the A/C, but i didn't know if i could get 12v ac request from the bcm but if it works with the pcm it might be fruitless.

But i've had an idea to cut the ccrm and pcm out of the equation, I could use one of my 12v switches from my switch panel as the 12v request signal to the gm pcm to kick on the ac. Then just use the factory controls for blower and the blend doors, do you see any reason this would not work?

On a separate note what all is affected by removing the ford pcm and powering the factory fuse block and leaving everything else? I know you lose factory gauges (as said earlier idc about them) rear defrost, stock fuel pump control (not needed), the ac trigger stuff, and anti-theft. This is all i have been able to gather is there anything affected that i'm missing, i don't want to come across a major surprise lol.

I'm newer to swapping and trying to figure stuff out so thank you for letting me rack your brain.

 

if you’re pulling out all the factory for stuff I really have no idea what will work and what won’t. You could just unplug it, power the main fuse panel and see what works and what doesn’t. Then you could make the final decision about removing it. I always leave it in. I’m going to go out on a limb and say as long as you leave the bcm which would control body functions like power windows and locks, what you lose would be insignificant. I believe all the heater control are mechanical so those should be fine. If you hooked A/c request to its own 12v that would definitely work. You should let the GM pcm see that same request so it can make its own AC on adjustment. The Ford CCRM is pretty useless on these swaps anyways. You can’t use it to control the fuel pump because it’s a variable voltage setup. It bumps voltage as it demands more fuel on these return less setups. It’s actually really neat but the old school way works just fine. On a side note I believe the defrost works through your gauge cluster. If you remove it you will have to rewire to get it to work but it honestly shouldn’t be that bad. If you switch to a pre canbus sn95 mustang (97 I believe and earlier) the gauges fit in the same spot and can be made to work fine. Many have done it. I ran fbody gauges on one of mine. They looked ok but worked fine. Had to trim the inside of the dash to get it to fit though. Good luck feel free to ask any questions.

 

Worst case buy some Aeromotive or vdo or whatever gauges and replace the guts of the Mustang cluster.. ?? I've done small clusters in cars where the OEM wasn't available, was a fiddly project but I did it on a desk table while binge watching tv.. Long as they use needles your good, just swap the guts of the gauges and build a new harness on the back.