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To you as well sir, pot meet kettle. If you have an argument then state facts as to what an LS swapped Porsche does better then a C6Z? I’ll wait... otherwise take your own advice.
Fact 1 - the OP IS swapping an LS3 into his Cayman.
Fact 2 - I think it’s a grand idea.
Fact 3 - I couldn’t care less if you think buying a 7.0L C6 is a better idea...your opinion is irrelevant given where the OP is already headed.
Why are you even in the thread?
Beauty of a public forum, to express an opinion of which you think someone else in the world will take interest in and respond. Same reason you login isn't it? I see you have no performance facts, only opinions so I'll leave you with them.
I agree its a good idea if the Cayman is cheap, already has a blown engine, etc.. They are fun cars but at the time I was looking all I could find was narrow body 911 crap with blown engines and don't prefer to own a narrow body car. So the next lightest, LS powered vehicle I could find was a C6 and fate played its course.
As for the OP, good luck! I've dealt with the Renegade kit on a 996, I'm hoping the 987 kit is a bit more complete. I also hope you don't let these guys deter you from revving the LS. I'm sure if you can complete a project like this, you can certainly refresh the engine in 200k miles when it needs it from enjoying the rev band outside of stock parameters.
Maybe I can help clarify something here. SLOW SEDAN, watch the video Michael posted above, if you haven't already. I did, and noticed how the car was driven under competitive conditions. For one, he hardly, if at all, shifted up or down. Also, that engine never sounded like it revved much over 5k RPM, if at all. Where he COULD have revved it or shifted, he did not NEED TO. I don't see the fun in winding an engine more than needed for the situation. If I can pass that guy quickly with out downshifting or overrevving, that is exactly how it will get done! You do what's needed for the situation. If you WANT to hear the engine turn 7k RPM, that's up to you, but it's even more insulting to the guy being passed if he knew you were NOT winding it up or downshifting. Pure torque in action! Have a good one, man!
Maybe I can help clarify something here. SLOW SEDAN, watch the video Michael posted above, if you haven't already. I did, and noticed how the car was driven under competitive conditions. For one, he hardly, if at all, shifted up or down. Also, that engine never sounded like it revved much over 5k RPM, if at all. Where he COULD have revved it or shifted, he did not NEED TO. I don't see the fun in winding an engine more than needed for the situation. If I can pass that guy quickly with out downshifting or overrevving, that is exactly how it will get done! You do what's needed for the situation. If you WANT to hear the engine turn 7k RPM, that's up to you, but it's even more insulting to the guy being passed if he knew you were NOT winding it up or downshifting. Pure torque in action! Have a good one, man!
Not every track is the same and in many situations revving a bit further will be faster. It also depends on gearing, if you shift early then you fall in a lower part of the powerband so again depends on the situation. Every shift takes time and every shift can upset the car, so it totally depends on the scenario. When you are racing you don't care how the other driver feels when you pass them, nor do they care about what RPM your engine is at so that's a non issue.
Sure in some cases you don't need to rev it, but I would much rather have the capability to rev it available then not. I would build it to rev and limit the power as needed as the driver learns both the car and the course. Most people get faster over time and want more power, enabling more revs is pretty cheap when already built for it and can extend the longevity of the setup pleasing the driver.
I DO agree that revving capability is a good thing. Better to have and not need, than to need and blow the motor! lol I agree with the other driver not mattering, I just kinda threw that in there. A little psych while racing just adds to it....
This particular car sounded like it was tuned for a lot of low end torque, as it got used to good advantage. An engine built to rev but not having to use it much will live to see a lot more races.
Maybe I can help clarify something here. SLOW SEDAN, watch the video Michael posted above, if you haven't already. I did, and noticed how the car was driven under competitive conditions. For one, he hardly, if at all, shifted up or down. Also, that engine never sounded like it revved much over 5k RPM, if at all. Where he COULD have revved it or shifted, he did not NEED TO. I don't see the fun in winding an engine more than needed for the situation. If I can pass that guy quickly with out downshifting or overrevving, that is exactly how it will get done! You do what's needed for the situation. If you WANT to hear the engine turn 7k RPM, that's up to you, but it's even more insulting to the guy being passed if he knew you were NOT winding it up or downshifting. Pure torque in action! Have a good one, man!
I don't have a dog in this fight (debate), but found a desire to comment on your post. In the video, this car was not driven under competitive conditions. It was clearly a track day (HPDE), with passing on wave-around, and I suspect it was not with the advanced group (Usually three groups, A, B, and C, i.e. Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner). It was not a "race." I offer no criticism of the driver. He was clearly taking it easy, as many do during these events (don't want to risk crashing a nice car). Most just want to have a fun day at the track under controlled conditions, with available medical resources. I've been to many of these kinds of events.
Cheers,
Andy1
I don't have a dog in this fight (debate), but found a desire to comment on your post. In the video, this car was not driven under competitive conditions. It was clearly a track day (HPDE), with passing on wave-around, and I suspect it was not with the advanced group (Usually three groups, A, B, and C, i.e. Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner). It was not a "race." I offer no criticism of the driver. He was clearly taking it easy, as many do during these events (don't want to risk crashing a nice car). Most just want to have a fun day at the track under controlled conditions, with available medical resources. I've been to many of these kinds of events.
Cheers,
Andy1
Thank you! That does explain a lot. I wasn't sure what a track day was, whether it was competitive or not. My ignorance! I did notice, though that he was driving it fairly quickly, and that the engine was not minding any of it a bit!
Thanks again for the clarification! It does explain some things to me.
I don't have a dog in this fight (debate), but found a desire to comment on your post. In the video, this car was not driven under competitive conditions. It was clearly a track day (HPDE), with passing on wave-around, and I suspect it was not with the advanced group (Usually three groups, A, B, and C, i.e. Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner). It was not a "race." I offer no criticism of the driver. He was clearly taking it easy, as many do during these events (don't want to risk crashing a nice car). Most just want to have a fun day at the track under controlled conditions, with available medical resources. I've been to many of these kinds of events.
Cheers,
Andy1
I agree with that summation, but admittedly didn't watch the video. I've done numerous HPDE's and passing has always been on the point/wave system until the advanced group and depending on the group sometimes not even then. I've seen more then a few wrecks on track days, almost always due to not enough driver and too much horsepower. I applaud guys that take it easy and learn the vehicle while increasing their skillset so they don't wad it up. I started with a 100hp beast and worked my way up, which I think most should do. Find a craigslist special Miata and learn how to drive before taking your fancy car out there and stuffing it into a tire wall or worse. I think most are shocked how quick a good driver in a slow car can be vs a bad driver with a fast car.
So I ordered the LS3 525 and the controller package. The combo is hard to beat price / value wise. I should be getting the adapters, engine to trans, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate tomorrow 5/10/19 and the rest soon after. I am going to use the LS3 water pump and need to get 3 new radiators. I think I can use the Porsche cooling fans and control them via the GM computer. I have used SPAL fans in the past and there are 12 inch unit that put out a true 1800 cfm each - killer units !!
These are the two SPAL fans I used on my old Porsche 914 LS1 car. Those fans aren't cheep but they create their own atmosphere.
Last edited by driveability; May 10, 2019 at 02:47 AM.
I’ve been using a dual 11” SPAL shrouded unit on mine for 17 years. First rate set up. Nice to have presents show up at the door!
Funny to talk about fans, but there are so many cheep units sold most don't realize a cooling fan isn't something to skimp on. They all seem to spin the blades fast but IMO SPAL high output units are fantastic. I also think the size / amp output of the alternator you choose and the relays you use are just as important. IMO again, for cooling fans, electric power-steering pumps you need a quality relay. Not one that cheats / eats amperage your fans require. OK I'll get off the soap-box ....
Agree with all -- except, I'm out of the relay business. I use a PWM controller that only spins the fans fast enough to keep the coolant temp at the set point - variable speed/current. Provides MUCH tighter/smaller operating temp spread, reduces wear/tear on the electrical system as the fans 'ramp' on and off, and is the most efficient in terms of not using any more power than it has to in order to keep the car at temp. I left the relays behind about 15 years ago - never again for big amp loads! BTW, some of the GM ecu's have the ability to control your fan that way...
Agree with all -- except, I'm out of the relay business. I use a PWM controller that only spins the fans fast enough to keep the coolant temp at the set point - variable speed/current. Provides MUCH tighter/smaller operating temp spread, reduces wear/tear on the electrical system as the fans 'ramp' on and off, and is the most efficient in terms of not using any more power than it has to in order to keep the car at temp. I left the relays behind about 15 years ago - never again for big amp loads! BTW, some of the GM ecu's have the ability to control your fan that way...
I have seen the trend going that way as you said long ago. I guess I'm a little old school there, maybe its time to look into something like "David Craig" system. I spent 25 years as a tune-up and driveablity tech at GM dealerships and most all cooling fan and fuel pumps are now speed & digitally controlled
Delta Current Control - DCC. Bought one of the first units the principle (Brian Baskin) designed/built back in '02-'03 or so. Still working beautifully. Drives the twin 11" Spals and for a time also a 7" fan on my oil cooler. But the LS3 heats the oil up a bit quicker than the cast iron 5.0L did -- so for this I put the oil cooler fan on a switch. Keeps it between 210F-230F.
Most guys use the P car fans from what I've seen. They do a good job of cooling and are sufficient for the majority of the swaps I've seen. I researched about 20 different LS and even a few Coyote P car swaps prior to starting mine and I only remember the air cooled cars with custom radiators having issues. An engine oil cooler would probably be the best addition instead of changing out the P car fans, IMO. In my Jeep LS swap I run a Griffin radiator with Volvo fan and relay which has been ridiculous for keeping it cool. Even with a less than stellar shroud design it keeps it cool and the GM ECU controls the factory Volvo relay (ground activated). I also run a huge Griffin trans cooler and will be adding an engine oil cooler in the winter which helps keep all the temps down. Even the steering has a giant cooler which helps take heat away from the steering pump. Just my two cents!
Looking forward to more progress as I am a big fan of the Cayman body design.
edit: Are you on the Facebook Porsche Swaps group? They have a K6 computer setup that will run your Porsche ECU and the LS ECU together to make the systems communicate well together. AEM also has a package that replaces the P car ECU and LS ECU with theirs for an easy swap but it's $4500. IIRC, the K6 computer is under $1000.
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