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Do you really want to deal with mounting all that into your intake tube? The MAF is not needed with the Terminator X. All you need is an AIT sensor in the intake manifold or in the intake tube ahead of the throttle body.
It would be the easiest way to get everything to work for me, as if the calibration was the same as the regular AIT sensor, it would be a simple matter of making an extension harness for it. Definitely don’t care about the MAF side of things, just the AIT, it’s just currently a more convenient package. I’m using the factory airbox, and the MAF/IAT is already there, and I’ll be likely using an Airaid tube from the MAF to the throttle body as it would be a very simple, easy install.
It would be the easiest way to get everything to work for me, as if the calibration was the same as the regular AIT sensor, it would be a simple matter of making an extension harness for it. Definitely don’t care about the MAF side of things, just the AIT, it’s just currently a more convenient package. I’m using the factory airbox, and the MAF/IAT is already there, and I’ll be likely using an Airaid tube from the MAF to the throttle body as it would be a very simple, easy install.
In that case, I would try to do some research about the technical details of the sensor that's there. If you know the output curve, you can program a custom sensor.
That’s what I was asking, if the MAF/IAT and regular IAT would read the same, or if they have different values or scale.
Odds are they are different. Temperature sensors are thermistors and operate by changing resistance as temperature changes. To make it even more complicated, their output slopes tend to not be linear.
A simple way to test would be to see if your cts and ait sensor read the same when exposed to ambient temperature. In other words, hook up what you have and test it. If they are close at ambient, then chances are they have a similar output curve.
I did this exact thing on my car this summer when I switched from a stock 0411 ECU to terminator x. My intake was already plumbed and I had the truck maf in place already. I tapped into the two wires for the integrated IAT and it worked flawlessly. Not sure what your application is but it worked for a 85mm truck maf.
Just purchased the Terminator X Max. LS1/4L60E: I figured as long as I'm changing heads, cam, lifters, springs, rockers, etc and
would need a new tune anyway I would go with the X Max upon reassembly and save a trip to the tuners.
Have been reading through the posts looking for a few answers:
- Alternator connection
- Do I need a speed signal? (I'm using GPS speedo)
- fans control
Not going to touch it until the weather is above 50, but I'm enjoying buying everything I'll need and searching for answers.
Just purchased the Terminator X Max. LS1/4L60E: I figured as long as I'm changing heads, cam, lifters, springs, rockers, etc and
would need a new tune anyway I would go with the X Max upon reassembly and save a trip to the tuners.
Have been reading through the posts looking for a few answers:
- Alternator connection
- Do I need a speed signal? (I'm using GPS speedo)
- fans control
Not going to touch it until the weather is above 50, but I'm enjoying buying everything I'll need and searching for answers.
Assuming you are using a 4 pin alternator, you can use this: https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/572-103
It gets wired to a switched 12+ source and doesn't need to have anything to do with the Terminator X. I also strongly encourage you to add a pin to the S terminal of the alternator plug and wire that to the point in the electrical system that will see the greatest voltage drop. This will vary from vehicle to vehicle.
A speed signal is not mandatory, but I always recommend to my customers to have one because it opens up a few tuning options that really help drivability with manual transmission cars. Details vary, depending on your transmission...
You can implement binary (on/off) fan control for one or two fans, however I strongly encourage my customers to use PWM can control. This can be done several ways, I can elaborate if you're interested.
Thanks, Andrew. I'm hiding out in the house until it gets warmer and when I get closer to installation (after the physical upgrades) I'm hoping to
have a smooth install. I'll keep your answers.
(I also read through this thread and THANK YOU for all the other answers I've gleaned from you and others)
Duff
Thanks, Andrew. I'm hiding out in the house until it gets warmer and when I get closer to installation (after the physical upgrades) I'm hoping to
have a smooth install. I'll keep your answers.
(I also read through this thread and THANK YOU for all the other answers I've gleaned from you and others)
Duff
Duff,
I am hiding in the house as well...This morning it was -8 degrees...
Question for the experts:. I am deciding on Holley HP EFI vs Terminator X. Car is a Datsun 280z with a 5.3 single turbo with T56 manual. I saw on the Holley comparison sheet that both are similar but have some notable differences. Can anyone please comment on the differences and which are actually meaningful? This is my first foray into a standalone and I don't know what I should be worried about. It's also my first turbo build. I have posted the comparison below
Terminator X: high impedance injectors only
HP: both high and low impedance injectors
On the face of it this seems trivial, but good high flow, high impedance injectors are very expensive. Low impedance high flow injectors are relatively cheap. For a turbo car, this alone can make it worth while to do an HP...
Terminator X: Bosch LSU 4.9 wideband only
HP: Bosch LSU 4.2 or NTK
The NTK can tolerate leaded race fuel, the Bosch will die a quick death with leaded fuels
Inputs and Outputs:
Terminator X is limited in the kind of inputs and only has ground side or PWM- outputs
HP has a bigger selection of inputs and can output positive (and PWM+) or ground side (and PWM-)
Terminator X uses USB to CAN for laptop connectivity, while the HP has a dedicated USB port for laptop connectivity.
Terminator X does not have any internal datalogging, only to laptop or SD card. HP has huge internal memory for logging (use a laptop to retrieve).
Terminator X can't do a system log but uses external LED lights for diagnostics. HP can run a system log for diagnostics.
There are some differences in the software, such as the HP having the ability for more advanced tables, but this is not an issue for most people.
Those are the biggies.
That said, I would still go with a Terminator X Max, even with a manual car, because of DBW and the ability to use the stock VSS from a T56 as a speed input. The HP has no DBW and it takes extra effort to add a VSS input from a stock T56 sensor.
Andrew
Last edited by Project GatTagO; 02-16-2021 at 09:48 PM.
What an extremely informative and helpful post, thank you. I plan to run e85 so large injectors will be needed.
Can you elaborate on the different kinds of inputs that HP can do that Terminator cannot?
Also, I sort of understand the difference between negative vs positive inputs/outputs, but what is the real difference in that? Is it much easier to set up, or better for some reason?
What is the extra effort required to use VSS in the HP system?
What an extremely informative and helpful post, thank you. I plan to run e85 so large injectors will be needed.
Can you elaborate on the different kinds of inputs that HP can do that Terminator cannot?
Also, I sort of understand the difference between negative vs positive inputs/outputs, but what is the real difference in that? Is it much easier to set up, or better for some reason?
What is the extra effort required to use VSS in the HP system?
Thanks!
I have a customer using the Terminator X on a TT 5.3, on e85, making 1100rwhp, so it can be done. But again, injector selection is critical.
The input differences are minor. The HP can accommodate 20 volt sensors, while the Terminator X is limited to 5v sensors. Both are limited to Hall Effect style speed sensors, while the Dominator can use both Hall effect and VR style speed sensors.
On the output side, the HP can output 12 volt triggers, while the Terminator X only ground side. So for instance, if you wanted to use the HP to trigger a cooling fan, you can wire that relay either as a positive or negative trigger, while the Terminator X limits you to only ground side triggers. Functionally, there isn't a difference (although some engineer would probably argue that a ground side trigger is "safer"). In most cases it's just a matter of convenience.
The VSS on a T56 is VR style (two wire) sensor, so neither the HP or the Terminator X can accommodate it directly. There is a workaround if you are using the Terminator X Max because it has VR sensor capability for the automatic transmissions. So there are some tricks to making it work and requires some mathematical gymnastics, but it works. Again only with the Terminator X Max.
The slickest solution for HP and Terminator X T56 users to get a VSS input to the ECU is using this:
This solves the signaling issue, because it provides a Hall effect (2 actually) signals that can be wired directly to the HP or the Terminator X. The Bowler box also solves another issue that has to do with the reverse lock out solenoid (RLS). It will automatically trigger the RLS as the factory did, that being at any speed below 5 mph the RLS is energized, which makes shifting into reverse a lot easier.
If you look at all those things combined, it becomes really easy to talk yourself into a Dominator ECU and call it a day...LOL
Terminator X: high impedance injectors only
HP: both high and low impedance injectors
On the face of it this seems trivial, but good high flow, high impedance injectors are very expensive. Low impedance high flow injectors are relatively cheap. For a turbo car, this alone can make it worth while to do an HP.
The VSS on a T56 is VR style (two wire) sensor, so neither the HP or the Terminator X can accommodate it directly. There is a workaround if you are using the Terminator X Max because it has VR sensor capability for the automatic transmissions. So there are some tricks to making it work and requires some mathematical gymnastics, but it works. Again only with the Terminator X Max.
The slickest solution for HP and Terminator X T56 users to get a VSS input to the ECU is using this:
01-03-2021, 05:41 PM
