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the vehicle is a 1952 Fiat Topolino Belvedere (wood sided wagon). originally born with a 35 cubic inch 16hp motor and a 4-speed transmission...... Its got 3 doors, 4 seats, a retractable soft top and will have a target weight between 2000 and 2200# with as close to a 50/50 weight distribution that I can get. currently the calcs are 50.5 front, 49.5 rear.
The car total length is just shy of 11 feet, and yes, I know that many altereds started life as early fiats and were stretched to fit a V8. this will remain the same length it left the factory, maybe even shorter as the bumpers were removed and I will be fitting a nerf bar style bumperettes.. that is shorter than 4 seater golf carts and literally the same length and currently the same width as an MG midget. currently its just a tick over 50" wide. and 54" tall.
current wheel base is 78", way too short, so that is getting stretched. rear axle is moving backwards, front axle is moving forward. the final wheel base will be between 88 and 90"
to literally fit the width of the transmission and the seats and keep the car a manual, which means the footwells need to go from what is now only 9" wide with the bellhousing and transmission to a minimum of 12"........ it needs to be widened. That is splitting the car down the middle and adding 6+ inches of width. because the proportions are wrong as it sits, and its taller than my daily whip, It will get a mild chop along with having the fenders widened 5-8" on each side
Since I could not find a 3D model of the 500C, I am currently using a model of the 500B - same dimensions, different grill and facia. I will be modeling the complete vehicle including the body sectioning while I am sourcing parts, validating fitment in 3D prior to validating in 2D. in the past I must have hoisted engines and transmissions into a chassis no less than 20 times per build. This build will be planned down to a complete model of the frame, cooling system, HVAC, etc.
the swap is an LS4 stripped down to block and heads, a custom 153 tooth billet steel flywheel with a 10.5" clutch, a dakota 2.5 liter AX-15 bellhousing and an AR5 trans. its all bolt together, no adapters. starter motor will be a ford variant mounted to a 4mm steel plate in the current pocket on the flywheel housing.
This is a luddite build, so knock-off victor intake, holley 830 CFM carb, and an MSD 6014. Heads will be either the 243's or 799's I have. probably the 799's as they are currently on the bench and I am currently porting them. Cam will be the summit 8702. going carb because I have been playing with EFI for nearly 40 years, and I am tired of parts that are NLA. plus I live in a state where the skyway bridge is the highest point at 210 ft above sea level, and the average temperature changes about 40 degrees year round.....so no choke.
the suspension is from an early C4 corvette, with coil overs and a 3.07:1 rear. may swap to 3.56:1. the car will either get air cups or bag riders to raise it up for speed bumps. Wheels are from a Z06
Everything that can not be sourced from various junkyards, ordered from various speed shops will be custom fabricated. That is pretty much everything but the basics of basics. that means custom fabricating the wiring harness, cooling water cross-over manifold, deareation tank, oil catch can, the adjustable custom reversed swing pedals (need the MC's angled upwards for room), the frame, exhaust, roll cage, tilt steering column, turn signal switch, HVAC ducting, air bag plumbing, etc. to save space, a portion of the roll cage will be the air tank. It also looks like I will be custom making a dropped base oval air cleaner to get the look I want as they do not make dropped base oval air cleaners.
This is not a catalog build where someone puts a swap kit in a catalog. this is a bit more intense than putting corvette suspension and a northstar V8 with a supercharger in an opel GT. I am not Chip Foose, or Dave Kindig, however I do my own sketches, designs, and fabrication and have the appropriate experience. I will also be doing my own bodywork and paint. this whole build will be built by me. and my target cost of build for the whole project is currently at $12k. with a bit of horse tradingand careful buying I do already have most of the motor, ignition system, driveline, suspension, wheels, fuel system, clutch, etc. in addition to the car itself and I am under the cost of a set of ported heads and an ECM
A while back I doodled my version of the crazy vs hot matrix for vehicle projects. its cool vs difficult this project is a solid 8-9 on the difficulty scale while being only a 4-5 on the cool scale currently.
Last edited by Scott Danforth; Apr 2, 2026 at 06:21 AM.
Awesome to see you start a thread on this build here. An LS-swapped ’52 Fiat is definitely not a typical swap, and we’re all about it.
Great choice going with the SUM-8702 cam too. It’ll have some attitude, but in a lightweight car like this, it should still be manageable. Excited to see this all come together!
not wanting to run duals, looking hard at beehive singles. singles have a smaller retainer. and at only 10 grams, no need to consider titanium which would not last the 100K-150k miles I am targeting
since the 8702 shares the lift and duration with the GM LSX 19166972 cam (Melling 22412). looking into the LSX, its running PAC springs.
working backwards...... looks like the 1219x springs which are similar to the Summit 174005 springs which are similar to the Melling VSK461219
I would step up to a PAC 1276x Beehive spring with that cam. I have run the Michigan stainless valves and they are made in Argentina. Question, why not fuel inject it? I see no advantage to carb in this particular situation. The powerband would be smoother across the board, with the longer intake runners. It's not that I'm against carbs, but injection is better in this case. I would go with a ported 706/862 head over the 243's or go big and get some Brodix 5.3's. Again, not because the 243's aren't great but a slightly smaller head would be better on this and/or big power I would aftermarket. FYI, I wouldn't run less than 11:1 in this if you shooting for that much overlap. 12:1 is even possible on pump gas, just have to make sure cooling is on point. 10:1 is for tow pigs around here, lol.
Edit: If you need them, I think I have a set C4 Vette rear half shafts and maybe some rear spindles.
Last edited by DualQuadDave; Mar 26, 2026 at 01:47 PM.
.... I have run the Michigan stainless valves and they are made in Argentina. Question, why not fuel inject it?.
how did the Michigan valves hold up?
regarding the induction. really tired of EFI components leaving me stranded. If I wanted to go EFI, I would just put an LNF in the car (original motor from the daily whip) with a large billet turbo from my buddy Matt at Turbo Bay and add a 5th injector to get over 400 WHP. Been playing with EFI since the 80's. no longer care about EFI. going simple, lightweight and bullet proof.
this is a luddite build. and if there was enough room with the LS4 damper to run a flathead distributor off the cam, that is what I would be running.
EFI manifolds are FUGLY and do not fit the hotrod aesthetic I am going for. this is a NA build, with a target of 400-450 hp and all upper RPM power because unless I bring along some fluffy folks, the thing will be tail happy enough at part throttle
Originally Posted by DualQuadDave
....I would go with a ported 706/862 head over the 243's or go big and get some Brodix 5.3's. Again, not because the 243's aren't great but a slightly smaller head would be better on this and/or big power I would aftermarket. FYI, I wouldn't run less than 11:1 in this if you shooting for that much overlap. 12:1 is even possible on pump gas, just have to make sure cooling is on point. 10:1 is for tow pigs around here, lol.
I have the 243's and 799's already that I am porting. the flow of the 243's ported outflow the 706's .. at 400+ hp and only 2200# max (really shooting for 1800#), I already am traction limited in first and second gear with a high probability of 3rd gear with the 3.07 rear which only gets worse at the 3.56 gears (dashed line is traction). adding more power wont fix traction so whats the point and running 10.4 or lower compression allows me to run 87 octane pump swill. This isnt a max effort build. This is a maximum performance in a vehicle smaller than a golf cart.... I went performance by simplifying and adding lightness (quoting Colin Chapman). I may skim cut the heads, but not by much. just enough to run stock MLS gaskets and get 1mm of S/Q vs running cometic
regarding the induction. really tired of EFI components leaving me stranded. If I wanted to go EFI, I would just put an LNF in the car (original motor from the daily whip) with a large billet turbo from my buddy Matt at Turbo Bay and add a 5th injector to get over 400 WHP. Been playing with EFI since the 80's. no longer care about EFI. going simple, lightweight and bullet proof.
this is a luddite build. and if there was enough room with the LS4 damper to run a flathead distributor off the cam, that is what I would be running.
EFI manifolds are FUGLY and do not fit the hotrod aesthetic I am going for. this is a NA build, with a target of 400-450 hp and all upper RPM power because unless I bring along some fluffy folks, the thing will be tail happy enough at part throttle
I have the 243's and 799's already that I am porting. the flow of the 243's ported outflow the 706's .. at 400+ hp and only 2200# max (really shooting for 1800#), I already am traction limited in first and second gear with a high probability of 3rd gear with the 3.07 rear which only gets worse at the 3.56 gears (dashed line is traction). adding more power wont fix traction so whats the point and running 10.4 or lower compression allows me to run 87 octane pump swill. This isnt a max effort build. This is a maximum performance in a vehicle smaller than a golf cart.... I went performance by simplifying and adding lightness (quoting Colin Chapman). I may skim cut the heads, but not by much. just enough to run stock MLS gaskets and get 1mm of S/Q vs running cometic
Ok, I'm following your plan more now. Yeah, given what you got vs what you want, I agree with your overall plan. If you have the room, All-star makes a LS dist conversion that runs off the front of the cam w/ a SBF dist and SBF mechanical fuel pump. Trust, me, I understand the simple principle. I'm considering all the same on my AMX build, but way bigger motor. I'm shooting for around 2800lbs wet.
Edit: The Michigan valves are holding up good so far, and I beat on my motors daily.
Last edited by DualQuadDave; Mar 26, 2026 at 06:14 PM.
Now, without moving the firewall, put a V8 with a 5-speed in it and keep it under the hood and keeping it a 4-seater
This build is 3D Tetris packaging at its finest.
The MSD ignition module will be under the driver's seat. The coil bank will be under the dash just above the trans tunnel and the master cylinder reservoirs will most likely be fabbed into the roll cage tube above the steering column, just forward of the wheel
Now, without moving the firewall, put a V8 with a 5-speed in it and keep it under the hood and keeping it a 4-seater
This build is 3D Tetris packaging at its finest.
The MSD ignition module will be under the driver's seat. The coil bank will be under the dash just above the trans tunnel and the master cylinder reservoirs will most likely be fabbed into the roll cage tube above the steering column, just forward of the wheel
I love it, like you said, it's a go cart with a body on it. I don't see why you can't put the coils under hood with some of the various relocation combo mounts(the ones that stack them are probably the way to go). Just a thought. Are you using the ls4 exh manifolds or going with a Vette manifold? The LS7 Vette manifolds would probably be best, given the space.
literally only using the long block of the LS4. Block, Heads (maybe), rotating assembly.
listed all the LS4 specific items for sale, as many are NLA. already sold the intake and belt tensioner, bringing the cost of my motor down to $130. If I can sell the NLA front water manifold and the exhaust manifolds, the motor becomes free.
Corvette oil pan, pickup, and baffle, custom flywheel
for exhaust, Speed engineering shorty headers. looks like I can use them as-is out of the box with only a minor tweak to clear the upper a-arm based on the emails back and forth with Speed Engineering.
the corvette manifolds are too heavy and actually hit the suspension. I looked at a set listed locally, and they stand-off the motor a bit more and were remarkably heavy.
Not sure what benefit it is to keep the coils under the hood? I have more room under the dash and behind the firewall than I do forward of the firewall. plus an extra long set of marine plug wires are cheap. It also keeps the engine bay clear of clutter.
the relocation brackets that move coils to the back of the cylinder head are along the lines of what I will be using. have a laser program ready, just need to mockup the fitment first in the event I need to tweak something. since the firewall is literally only 8mm behind the LH head, and I have to move a portion of it for the RH head, the spark plug wires are not any longer than most of the relocation kits.
Im currently re-evaluating the engine height. currently have the oil pan/bellhousing/trans only 3.5" off the ground which if I loose air in all 4 tires, means trouble. may need to raise it back up another 1/2" or so. then I risk running into the hood with the air cleaner.
1952 Fiat Topolino 
