LS1 swap and emissions...
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From: Itasca, IL
LS1 swap and emissions... Well I am still a little unsure of what to do about emissions. I have thought about getting some sort of show car insurance and leave it at that, but it has restrictions I hear. Ive heard that if you swap a newer engine into an older car than that car has to follow the emissions standards for the car that the engine came from. So I would follow the emissions from a 98 Trans Am, or so I hear. But in Illinois I believe there is no sniffer test for OBD II vehicles, they just plug into the OBD II connector and check for codes, the emissions MIL command, and readiness standards. If I got a dyno tune, would it be possible for them to set it up so that I would pass those requirements? What have you guys done about it if you have emissions in your area? I dont think its as strict as california with the refferees and crap like that. Thanks for the imput.
Chris
Chris
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From: santa ana, ca
Originally Posted by 92CamaroReallySlow
Well I am still a little unsure of what to do about emissions. I have thought about getting some sort of show car insurance and leave it at that, but it has restrictions I hear. Ive heard that if you swap a newer engine into an older car than that car has to follow the emissions standards for the car that the engine came from. So I would follow the emissions from a 98 Trans Am, or so I hear. But in Illinois I believe there is no sniffer test for OBD II vehicles, they just plug into the OBD II connector and check for codes, the emissions MIL command, and readiness standards. If I got a dyno tune, would it be possible for them to set it up so that I would pass those requirements? What have you guys done about it if you have emissions in your area? I dont think its as strict as california with the refferees and crap like that. Thanks for the imput.
Chris
Chris
i hope we can get a hard answer to this thread.
dan
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From: Itasca, IL
Originally Posted by RXette
there are postings on this forum that say that if the error codes are set to "X", that a scanner will see a "ready" condition and there will be no history of any DTCs. then others infer that some scan tools can detect the scam. i am also confused, particularly about the emissions DTCs. tuners have told me that setting DTCs to "X" is undetectable. i do not want to go to the callifornia ref, only to find out that he uses ls1edit or hptuners. if so i will have to move to nevada because i will surely be on the **** list.
i hope we can get a hard answer to this thread.
dan
i hope we can get a hard answer to this thread.
dan
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From: Baltimore, MD.
Emissions is one of those funny topics that isn't real funny....
Here's the basic problem: There isn't a uniform set of rules. Every state (and sometimes even counties within states or areas within counties) play by different rules.
That boils down to YOU need to check with YOUR State and Local government / emissions testing place.
Typically, putting in a newer engine is a good thing, so that "should" be a legal swap. And depending upon where you're at, they may not even know that you've done the swap.
For instance, Maryland does a couple of different tests. Tailpipe for '78-'83 cars, IM240 dynamometer treadmill test for '84-'95 cars, and a OBDII test for '96 and up. If you've got a '92 with a swapped motor, how will they know? In MD, they don't check under the hood, you could be running a gas turbine and they wouldn't know. Unless your emissions were out of limits, at which point you'd fail (but they still wouldn't know you had a gas turbine).
As far as the OBDII test stuff goes, I can't say. I don't know what the hardware / software capabilities are. They don't use LS1Edit or HPTuners, that much you can bet on. Its much more expensive, and set up to be able to talk to ANY brand of car. That probably means that it can't talk to the LS1 well enough to determine if its programming has been modified. But the key there is "probably". I don't know for certain, I'm just guessing.
Hopefully somebody who has personal experience will post up his/her situation (with details of the tests, locations, modifications, whatever).
'Dreamin'
Here's the basic problem: There isn't a uniform set of rules. Every state (and sometimes even counties within states or areas within counties) play by different rules.
That boils down to YOU need to check with YOUR State and Local government / emissions testing place.
Typically, putting in a newer engine is a good thing, so that "should" be a legal swap. And depending upon where you're at, they may not even know that you've done the swap.
For instance, Maryland does a couple of different tests. Tailpipe for '78-'83 cars, IM240 dynamometer treadmill test for '84-'95 cars, and a OBDII test for '96 and up. If you've got a '92 with a swapped motor, how will they know? In MD, they don't check under the hood, you could be running a gas turbine and they wouldn't know. Unless your emissions were out of limits, at which point you'd fail (but they still wouldn't know you had a gas turbine).
As far as the OBDII test stuff goes, I can't say. I don't know what the hardware / software capabilities are. They don't use LS1Edit or HPTuners, that much you can bet on. Its much more expensive, and set up to be able to talk to ANY brand of car. That probably means that it can't talk to the LS1 well enough to determine if its programming has been modified. But the key there is "probably". I don't know for certain, I'm just guessing.
Hopefully somebody who has personal experience will post up his/her situation (with details of the tests, locations, modifications, whatever).
'Dreamin'
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From: Itasca, IL
Well if I went the route of trying to get it to pass and it was true that they would use the OBD II way of testing, then I would tell them that I have a newer engine in there. With an ls1 with a small cam no emissions stuff or cats (as of yet) then I doubt that I would be able to pass the dyno/sniffer type tests, although I dont know how an LS1 emissions are comparable to a 305 TBI, but I am assuming that I wouldnt pass. The other thing is if I got it to pass with the OBD II route and told them I had an LS1 in there, then wouldnt I have to tell my insurance that I have swapped in an ls1 and the insurance would probably be rediculous.
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From: Downers Grove, IL
In illinois obd II vehicles get read by the code reader, 1981 to OBD I get put on the roller dyno, and older than 81 are just a sniffer test. There are two ways that you could go about this, #1 you could put the LS1 in with at least a few emissions controls and not say that you put a LS1 in the car. they don`t make you pop the hood until after the second time you fail so as long as you put cats in the exhaust they won`t know the difference. Then just let them put the car on the roller dyno and test it same as if it had a tpi in it, the LS1 runs much cleaner so you don`t have to worry about failing. #2 you could also try to follow the emissions for a 98 TA and then you might be able to register with illinois and have them do the emissions through the obd port. I don`t know for sure if illinois will do this, if it were me I`d just go the first way. As far as deleting the DTC`s it is undetectable (only on OBD II engines, won`t work on OBD I LT1`s)as far as I know, theres people in the chicago area who have passed emissions with 98+ F-Bodies with no cats, longtubes, and they just deleted the rear 02`s, air injection, and any other codes that popped up. For more info on what program they deleted the codes check the board on www.mfba.org
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From: Itasca, IL
So you are saying with my mods if I put a cat on, I might be able to pass the roller dyno? What about with out EGR or AIR or any of that, because i dont have any of that. I might try that, Ive heard you can go somewhere and pay 20 bucks and have it tested to see if it passes but it doesnt go on record. I was also wondering, when I went to get tested before the motor swap, It was put on a roller dyno, but it also had the detectors put on the tailpipes, is that the sniffer part?...Im just wondering.
* Also what about my stall? Wouldnt that really kill the test?
* Also what about my stall? Wouldnt that really kill the test?
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From: Downers Grove, IL
You could probably pass with an LS1 with no emissions stuff in that car, I almost got my El Camino to pass with a 305 with 120 thousand on it and it wouldn`t idle smooth and the cat was hollowed out. You could probably get it to pass as long as it was tuned well. You will need a cat or at least the bottom half of a converter hoseclamped to the pipe since they look under the car to make sure it`s there. I haven`t heard of anywhere where you can have your car checked for a fee but it might be possible might want to ask speed inc, powerhouse performance or finnishline performance they all tune cars for people in the midwest F-Body Association and know how illinois emission tests work.
*yes the thing that they put in the tailpipe on the dyno is the sniffer.
*I don`t know it the higher stall would hurt you or not, I know that when the idiot ran my car in second gear it didn`t pass but then again it also had a hollow cat.
*yes the thing that they put in the tailpipe on the dyno is the sniffer.
*I don`t know it the higher stall would hurt you or not, I know that when the idiot ran my car in second gear it didn`t pass but then again it also had a hollow cat.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
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From: Itasca, IL
Well if I did go and try to get it tested I would put a cat in. I havent had a y pipe made yet so I would have him make a test pipe that I can swap in and out a cat if I decided to go that route. I am not even sure when my next emissions test are. My last one was a little over a year ago, but I failed the first time (bad cat) and passed the second time; ive heard (more 3rd hand information) that if you fail it it all, then they are on your *** every year about it, instead of every 2 years. I havent recieved any notices yet so I hope that it wont be for a while seeing as the car isnt driving yet 
.
. Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Downers Grove, IL
I heard that it has more to do with your driving record than if your car fails. Took mine in failed first time, did a tune up failed second time, removed hollow converter put good one in and passed on the third try 
And I didn`t get another notice for 3 years.
And I didn`t get another notice for 3 years. Teching In
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From: santa ana, ca
Originally Posted by 92CamaroReallySlow
What about with out EGR or AIR or any of that, because i dont have any of that.
the air pump makes no difference in tail pipe emissions AFTER THE CAR IS WARMED UP. it is there only to help during the engine cold start. by the time you get to the test place, the engine will be warm. in cali, we need it because they do a visual and will pick up the error DTC if the code is there.
dan
