jdperk-86elco

Guys,

I have talked to many people even A/C professionals and I can not get a straight answer.

My current A/C system in my 1986 El Camino is working great with R12. I am getting ready to install a LS1 with its stock A/C compressor and I would like to connect it to my existing system and recharge it with R12. Will this work with this compressor?

What are my options?

Klortho

iTrader: (2)

The new compressors will only work with R-134a, it would be the best and the cheapest to do since you can still get it at like Advanced and AutoZone without have to have a HVAC license

John B

iTrader: (10)

I converted mine to R134a during the sawp and it works fine.

30th TA 0219

it is said to be slightly colder. but for the costs (although 134a is literally double what it was last year) I could not even imagine going R12.
Imagine something is wrong, and the motor has to come out. Now you can certainly remove the motor and leave the AC stuff in there, but it makes it more difficult. @ $30-40 a ful l recharge vs $200 per, why bother? And correct, the seals for 134a are not really favorable to using R12.

censo69

The two different system use different oils as well. Also depending on the manufacture of the compressor will depend on the type of rubber seals used in the compressor. In your case standard LS1 compressors are a Delphi V5 internaly variable compressor, and you would need to find out form delphi if the V5 seals can handle R12. But my guess would be no it wont. The only compressors that I know of that shouldnt have a problem with this are Denso and some Calsonic. Good Luck

Vince

CharlieLed

iTrader: (1)

Save yourself some time and heartache...make the switch to 134a now, R12 is not worth it.

jdperk-86elco

I got the R12 sucked out today. It was a tight system since the early 90s and removed a little over 2 lbs of R12. The shop will give me credit for the R12 when I put it back in to charge it up again.

I just found a sticker on my the round cylinder can thing (I can't remember the technical name at the moment) that stated R134 and R12 compatible. So changing to R134a might be easier.

However I do like R12 better. I am undecided still which to go with. With R12 I will have to change the compressor and a Senden will work.

I will keep you guys posted.

Off to start the disassembly.

Klortho

iTrader: (2)

That's a good sign on the dryer (the round silver cylinder) but the compressor itself will only use R134a, the cost difference between the two as stated is well worth the swap and to be honest, I think the systems charged with R134 are colder than the R12

30th TA 0219

Again, IMHO, I think it's well worth the ability to troubleshoot, repair, and fill yourself, stick with 134a.
R12 si getting more and more expensive everyday.

jdperk-86elco

Yeah, you guys are probably right. However when I know what I want I usually go get it. I will compare the cost of both and how things will bolt up to make that decision to go with R134a or R12.

The determining factor will be how much frame I will have to knotch to get the compressor to fit. If I think I will have to cut too much of the crossmember section then I think I will just relocate the compressor to a bracket on the head. If I relocate to the head then I will go with R12 for sure.

Knotching the frame would be less expensive and cleaner looking installation, as well as using standard belts.

Klortho

iTrader: (2)

You might want to call Tennesse Auto, they are putting a LS1 in an El Camino and didn't have to notch the frame to clear the A/C compressor in the stock location.

jdperk-86elco

Yeah I know. We had this discussion in another thread with the guys from Tennessee Auto and John Bdzel. It turned out that TN Auto uses motor mounts that shifted the motor up and forward which cleared the crossmember. John B. made custom motor mounts that put the motor in the stock position with only an offset of 5/8" forward.

So I am using John B's motor mounts and oil pan. I know the compressor will hit the frame rail and part of the crossmember. I don't know how much until I put in the motor and measure. Hopefully I will get to that stage next weekend. I really don't want to relocate the compressor to a bracket on the passenger side head for two reasons; one, looks which is just a preference and it can be made to look good; and two, the upper bracket setup will mean a custom belt instead of factory sizes. These are just preference reasons for me.

I am looking for less expensive and ease of installation. I also don't want to reinvent the wheel, meaning if someone has already found a good solution I will want to go with that instead of trying to fabricate my own. My time and money is worth a lot and it ususally cheaper in the long run to just buy the already designed brackets and setups.

John B's A/C compressor bracket and setup looks great but it took him time to design and fab plus get it all welded up. I would guess if he just bought the setup already designed it would be a wash when you add up his time and labor. Yet you can't take away the fact he can say he designed it himself and did a jam up job as well.

Just my opinion.

jdperk-86elco

Hey guys,

What do you know about ES-12a refrigerant?
http://autorefrigerants.com/

It is stating it is better and compatible with R12 and R134a. So if I build my system using the stock V7 compressor for R134a and use their ES-12a it should work and be cooler than R12, plus be environmental friendly compared to R12 or R134a as they state.

Any body know anything about these new refrigerants?

Gen3Benz

iTrader: (4)

I've never heard of it. says its a hydro carbon refrig. hopefully not flammable!!
You could be the lab rat with this stuff.
also, the BG refrigerant oil I use at work is designed to work on both r12 and r134a

jdperk-86elco

The website states it is 1000F higher flash point than R134a.

StickSS

Hey JDperk How is it going. If you want to mount the Fbody compressor low why don't you try this idea. The Corvette Compressor bracket mounts the compressor a little closer to the engine but the corvette compressor has the hose connections on the side. Why don't you get the Corvette bracket and top bolts. mount he Fbody compressor to the vette bracket an put a small spacer behind the top engine to compressor bolt and a couple spacers under the pulleys it may work along with a shorter Corvette belt. Hotrodair has the bulk head connector and small hard lines to fit the compressor. Someone used a setup like this in a sixty six chevelle in one of the car mags a while back. Try getting a used bracket on ebay and try it. If it doesn't work just resell the bracket?

jdperk-86elco

I don't understand this concept. Shorter bracket but add spacers, I don't see any gain.

G-Body

iTrader: (4)

Hot rod did something like this on their power driver 67 chevelle. I was not aware though that the vette bracket tucks in closer to the engine (width wise, lenghtwise the vette accessories do not stick as far forward as the camaro or truck.). Hot rod used the camaro compressor on a vette engine because the outlet fittings are orientated differently and that gave them the clearance they needed. jdperk-86elco click the link to see the spacer he is talking about http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1...er/index1.html Look at the top back bolt hole, the vette compressor has a longer hole, Hot Rod had to put a spacer on the bolt in order to make the camaro compressor fit the vette bracket.

StickSS

That is the link that I was talking about Gbody, thanks for finding it. They changed the clutch and pully on the camaro compressor with the one from the vette so the belts would line up. If you use the Camaro comressor on JDperks setup I Think you only need to add 2, 1/2 inch spacers under the idler pully and tensioner on the corvette A/C bracket to get the correct belt alignment? You could try it if you can get a used A/C bracket from a vette cheap. Sears hardware probably has some spacers for a dollar that you could use. Look at page 59 or page 60 of Street and Performance online catalog. They show a Vette and Camaro engine side by side from the front view. Look at the location of the A/C compressor on both motors. On the Vette the compressor is centered under the Thermostat. On the Camaro it looks to be about an inch further out. See what you think? If you try this setup and if it works post up and let everyone know.

OWENMUSTANG

iTrader: (2)

just use the r-134. if you are good friends with your a/c guy, have them play with the pressures until you get the coldest air. i've been told r-134 is within several degrees of r-12 when dialed in.. also. you might look for a larger condensor for this. an a/c vendor tech guy told me most cars use the minium size condensor they can get away with..