Stock ls6 motor traps 130+
08-04-2014, 08:39 PM
#301
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Location: chattanooga Tn
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I read an article about parasitic losses. That if you have a bigger rear end, and a slipping stall, it can eat more than 25% of you power.. On the vette, on a stock rear end, and the m6.. He is prob losing somewhere between 8-10% for drive train loss..
Those stalls start loosing big power in the higher rpm range. And if you have a 9 inch, the way the gear is set up, it eats the most power out of all rear ends...
The more hp you have also, the bigger the losses... I suspect his losses are around 8 to 10%.. He is loosing 40 to 50 hp, while you can be losing up to 75 to 100, depending what you have for a rear end.. Now on a lock up converter those losses are less, but still significant..
08-04-2014, 11:39 PM
#302
For losses, yes... But its not as strong as the other 2, but I seen some that can hold up.. The 9 inch, eats a lot because where the gear is at, and the angle of it. The dana, is a beast and is heavy, but its the cheapest. I might go with the dana, I hate to... I am looking at rare magnesium old drag car danas, right now. But they are expensive.. I might get a deal... The dana is the strongest I would say, but then the next weak link is the m6 trans and clutch. My bro says, the dana eats less, than a 12 bolt, but he is a mopar guy... So.... But, its the heaviest out of them all.
I been lucky with my 7.5 inch so far... It's been holding, but I leave like a baby... I know if I leave really hard, I will grenade it..
I would say, the 12 bolt will eat the less, I like the geometry where the torque arm goes, and its GM... It depends how much power you are going to run really...
Last edited by stage274; 08-05-2014 at 12:07 AM.
08-04-2014, 11:47 PM
#303
Look at this 302 comet, with an auto, a fan, and a 9 inch, is loosing 40% of its power.... This is nuts.. The Buick stage 1, through a 4 speed, and a 12 bolt, 18% ....... The f bodies, and the vette, is the lowest losses I have ever seen... Its between 8 to 13%..... For a M6....
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...in_power_loss/
08-04-2014, 11:57 PM
#304
Really the 12 bolt is not bad on our cars...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...rain-loss.html
I need to find one, who tested the dana... I am not going to run the 9 inch, no way....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...rain-loss.html
I need to find one, who tested the dana... I am not going to run the 9 inch, no way....
08-05-2014, 12:13 AM
#305
I have been doing research.. Cause I need to make a decision soon. My bro, might be right, about the dana... But, its 25 pounds heavier than the 12 bolt... I found this in another forum... So, if I can find an magnesium dana 60... I will go with that... I dont know how I will mount, the torque arm. But hey, how cool would it be to have the only magnesium rear end. Also, we can go with a lithium battery now, it weighs 9 pounds, from 44 pounds.. So, if you get a regular dana, you can make it up with that.. The battery is 800$ though.. Ouch....
"A few of the local guys shared some test results on drive-train loss when I asked a similar question not too long ago.
the loss thru 9" was 14%
the 12 bolt was 10%
the S60 was 7% "
08-05-2014, 05:13 AM
#306
I read an article about parasitic losses. That if you have a bigger rear end, and a slipping stall, it can eat more than 25% of you power.. On the vette, on a stock rear end, and the m6.. He is prob losing somewhere between 8-10% for drive train loss..
Those stalls start loosing big power in the higher rpm range. And if you have a 9 inch, the way the gear is set up, it eats the most power out of all rear ends...
The more hp you have also, the bigger the losses... I suspect his losses are around 8 to 10%.. He is loosing 40 to 50 hp, while you can be losing up to 75 to 100, depending what you have for a rear end.. Now on a lock up converter those losses are less, but still significant..
Those stalls start loosing big power in the higher rpm range. And if you have a 9 inch, the way the gear is set up, it eats the most power out of all rear ends...
The more hp you have also, the bigger the losses... I suspect his losses are around 8 to 10%.. He is loosing 40 to 50 hp, while you can be losing up to 75 to 100, depending what you have for a rear end.. Now on a lock up converter those losses are less, but still significant..
08-05-2014, 09:11 AM
#307
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If I make 540 rwhp, and he makes 413 rwhp, what does the loss percentage matter.... Think about that for a moment. I am also a six speed car as a quick scan of my signature would imply. Actually running a very similar clutch too. Please don't assume, also I'm glad you are "doing your research", 12 bolts are garbage. I lost no power on the dyno, nor any et or mph switching to a 9" from a 12 bolt and that was 5 years ago. The thing that improved is I now have no whine, haven't blown my 9" like I did the 12 bolt, and it weighs less then that hunk of junk 12 bolt.
08-05-2014, 10:39 AM
#309
Dude I know how you feel man... I do.... Its where the power is coming in at also I guess... Look at the 04 dyno queen cobras, 800 rwh.... But those cars do 11.50 to 11.80s.... The power comes on the last 1200 rpm or so.....
I know this is a incredible number on 414 hp, and 383 torque... Look at that z on this forum doing 129 mph at 11.05.... He weighs 3750... If he shed 750 pounds, he would be right there also...
I guess everybody would want a 10.0 car with those numbers...
I seen a full weight w-30 442, stock eliminator class, run 11.50 at 113... Where my olds had fully ported C mondello heads, 550 lift cam at 305 duration...
I ran 12.01 at 112 consistently, my 60 was 1.65, his was 1.43-45... My motor had everything you can do to it, my heads where hogged.. He had a factory car with no head porting allowed.. But what this guy did, was tune, tune and tune... He measured each stock gm rocker arms to the micro gram. I had roller arms on my car... He had a turbo 400 also... How can this stock OLDS, beat my built mondello motor. I was butt hurt... I made 515 fly wheel horse, he made the stock 405.... How did this guy do it... He ran stock eliminator. He spent 10 years dialing the car in, that's how... His cam was 470 lift... My heads flowed 300 cfm, his 265 cfm at that 470 lift....
It was a freak of nature...
I have to say I am very impressed with the z on this board also. 129 mph in a full weight z, with 400 rear wheel, that is crazy... The mile an hour is almost that of my blower car on 5 pounds... I think it the flatness of the HP curve from 4500 to 6500....
Its hard to believe, that's for sure, but here it is... I dont know what to say, but some cars, can run when dialed in to the nth degree.. Also, I had another buddy, stock gn, te-44 turbo, he ran 11.50 at 115... It would die on the top end, but it was all out of the hole... The torque got him out of the hole...
If you run 115 in a 3400 to 3500 pound car.. And if you have the torque to leave without bogging.. You can run that number.. I seen it to many times at the track... That z, is too heavy probably to run mid 10s... But in the vette, it is possible....
Last edited by stage274; 08-05-2014 at 10:44 AM.
08-05-2014, 11:02 AM
#310
Your torque is on the low side compared to the amount of HP..
Yeah, you pic up the mile an hour on the back half... I bet if you can leave in the 1.3s , you will get that number... Work on the suspension, and you will go deep into the 9s.....
08-13-2014, 02:10 PM
#316
26 mph backhalf in a 3000 lbs car , six speed, heads and cam ls1 / ls6 is not unusual. A bolt on f body at that weight with a stock ls1 would backhalf 23-24 easy . I know because I had 6 speed 2002 that was 3550 raceweight that trapped 89-90 in the 1/8 and 113-114 in the 1/4 with just headers, lid, exhaust, tune, 4.11 gears and 27 in tire. An ls6 engine has better cylinder heads, camshaft and will turn some rpm. He has a light car with some gear, full bolt ons, and a great chassis. Also we ran ours in the south in da between +1000 -2000. We are going through the same bs right now with our current car because of how it runs. Get accused of having a 408 because it runs way faster than what folks think a sbe ls1 should run with ported heads, cam , intake, nitrous, 4L60E. You have to pay attention to the small details that most folks overlook. Our car will do a low 1.2 60 ft on a good track on a radial because we set it up right and didn't cut any corners.
08-13-2014, 02:21 PM
#317
My car is by no means the fastest car out there. I have owned many track worthy cars and know what it takes to accomplish these times. My car is right on par with any similar build in 2500+ DA and is tuned and driven to the best it can possibly be. Not trying to be a dick either, But please explain your logic to where this is the norm where a car that has a thousand similar builds can seem to muster the mass average of a mid 11 second passes at best by some of the best corvette drivers on the boards. Yet another guy can run almost a 9.99 in a car that should be in the 11's.. Doesn't make sense for a stock small cube shortblock LS6... This car cant be making more then 415whp at most... Now granted this was probably done in -3000 DA and with a tail wind of 30mph but it still Mathematically doesn't make sense, and should be questioned with a bit of skepticism given what these cars do...
2002 Camaro
sbe ls1 including stock rod bolts.
TEA cnc ls6 heads 67cc chambers
232/250 , 113+5 , .627/ .623
1 7/8 headers
3 in y with 4 in bullet muffler
super vic and accufab
nitrous
4L60E
Fab 9
full suspension
radial
3100 lbs race weight
10-03-2014, 10:53 PM
#320
BTW, freaking amazing, amazing, amazing. You would so smoke my 600 RW, trans am, 383 6 pounds of boost on a 100 shot... My car weighs 3450 now.
Its not the power, its how you deliver it an leave for the ET...
My 383 is a bone stock 383, z06 cam and 317 heads.. My car is fast, I just cant leave.. I am sure, I can get it in the nines, with a new rear end. I am raising the boost also to 14 soon..