E85 Guys come on In..
E85 Guys come on In.. My tuner wants to try E85 w my build, I wondering what all I would have to change and what ill pick up by doing this, Motors a LSX Block 427NA 11.4:1 stock Ls7 heads 247/255 .670 .670 112LSA. 60lb Mototron injectors, Racetronics single in tank fuel pump w hotwire kit, Stock fuel lines and fuel rail. Cars 50/50 street strip. Cars on a 99 pcm and harness
Whats the pros n cons of E85 and is it hard on anything?
I wanna be able to run either 93 or E85 if i do this thx.
Whats the pros n cons of E85 and is it hard on anything?
I wanna be able to run either 93 or E85 if i do this thx.
I know you gotta have 30% and Iv herd 50% more room to grow w your fuel system, I know my injector Duty Cycle is 52% at WOT, the fuel pump I have Ill prb need 2 in tank pump I bet, but than Ive herd its hard on stuff but I wanna know what its Hard on... and what kinda of more hp and trq im goin to get being NA 11.4:1 CR
On my 383 I first started with the same fuel setup as you and 55lb injectors. Ran out of fuel, added a 2nd pump in tank running all the time, -8 feed, external regulator after the fuel rail, and used the stock -6 feed as a return.
Now I am as high as 126% duty cycle at 7500rpms to keep the AFR mid 12's on a gas scale.
Shake down passes with the single pump at the track ran 7.10@96mph on motor going down the track at 14-1 AFR and the timing jerked down because I didn't figure the single 255 with hotwire would be enough.
It has taken some messing with but I"m glad I did it.
For the above setup I would start with one of the new e85 rated walbro 420 in tanks which is what I'm about to order, keep those same injectors and just see where they take you too although I think you'll need 80lber's. FIC can reflow them up to 80lb I believe.
Also run a -8 feed and use the stock feed line as a return with an external reg after the rails unless you luck out and somehow the stock bypass regulator in tank can support the return flow of the 420 but I kinda doubt it.
Now I am as high as 126% duty cycle at 7500rpms to keep the AFR mid 12's on a gas scale.
Shake down passes with the single pump at the track ran 7.10@96mph on motor going down the track at 14-1 AFR and the timing jerked down because I didn't figure the single 255 with hotwire would be enough.
It has taken some messing with but I"m glad I did it.
For the above setup I would start with one of the new e85 rated walbro 420 in tanks which is what I'm about to order, keep those same injectors and just see where they take you too although I think you'll need 80lber's. FIC can reflow them up to 80lb I believe.
Also run a -8 feed and use the stock feed line as a return with an external reg after the rails unless you luck out and somehow the stock bypass regulator in tank can support the return flow of the 420 but I kinda doubt it.
Awesome info, now will that pump wrk properly in a 99 tank and sending unit, im refering to the venturey tube that comes out of the top of our pumps from factory or like my racetronics kit to keep the basket full of fuel so it doesnt run out on corners or hills? I know the reg walbros 255lph's didnt have this and thats why i didnt buy one than.
I'm not sure if its the right way but I had to open the bottom of my basket and let both bags hang outside of it. I don't go around corners or let the fuel level get below 1/4 tank.
I used the stock basket cut up a bit and a 3/8 to -8 adapter fitting to run -8 to the top of the stock bucket. My factory sending unit still works correctly and I bypassed the factory fuel pump wires.
Like I said I personally am ditching the dual pumps and going to a single 420.
I used the stock basket cut up a bit and a 3/8 to -8 adapter fitting to run -8 to the top of the stock bucket. My factory sending unit still works correctly and I bypassed the factory fuel pump wires.
Like I said I personally am ditching the dual pumps and going to a single 420.
Twin pumps is a must I maxed out
Mine with a sbe ls1 head cam intake setup with 60 lbs injectors and 340 aeromotive intake and Hotwire. Also loop your rails I you have fast rails. I am going to twin 340's
Mine with a sbe ls1 head cam intake setup with 60 lbs injectors and 340 aeromotive intake and Hotwire. Also loop your rails I you have fast rails. I am going to twin 340's
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I am most likely going to go back to a single pump and 93 pump as I'm not really wanting to get another set of injectors at the moment. I never believed the reflowed 55lb stock injectors from FIC wouldn't be adequate for my motor on e85.
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Something is wrong if you're truly out of injector running low 11s. what fuel pressure? whats your injector constant? I ran quicker/fasterwith my LT1 on 60s and like 80% indicated DC.
OP- Start with a non-extended tip plug in a 6 or 7 heat range. Timing might end up lower than on gas. Lots of fuel pump needed, I ran out above 425whp with a single 255. You'll gain some good torque in the midrange, might make more, the same, or less at peak. Average #s will go up 2-3% I'd reckon. I've been running E85 for 3 years now in my LT1, over 13:1 compression on the street
OP- Start with a non-extended tip plug in a 6 or 7 heat range. Timing might end up lower than on gas. Lots of fuel pump needed, I ran out above 425whp with a single 255. You'll gain some good torque in the midrange, might make more, the same, or less at peak. Average #s will go up 2-3% I'd reckon. I've been running E85 for 3 years now in my LT1, over 13:1 compression on the street
Something is wrong if you're truly out of injector running low 11s. what fuel pressure? whats your injector constant? I ran quicker/fasterwith my LT1 on 60s and like 80% indicated DC.
OP- Start with a non-extended tip plug in a 6 or 7 heat range. Timing might end up lower than on gas. Lots of fuel pump needed, I ran out above 425whp with a single 255. You'll gain some good torque in the midrange, might make more, the same, or less at peak. Average #s will go up 2-3% I'd reckon. I've been running E85 for 3 years now in my LT1, over 13:1 compression on the street
OP- Start with a non-extended tip plug in a 6 or 7 heat range. Timing might end up lower than on gas. Lots of fuel pump needed, I ran out above 425whp with a single 255. You'll gain some good torque in the midrange, might make more, the same, or less at peak. Average #s will go up 2-3% I'd reckon. I've been running E85 for 3 years now in my LT1, over 13:1 compression on the street
fuel pressure is 65psi with vac line off the regulator. These injectors were reflowed at FIC to 55lb@58psi. I can tell you whats wrong, I suck at tuning and put in the number wrong to convert my wideband through the EGR so it read incorrectly and I wasn't looking down at the actual gauge. Actual AFR was 9.5-1 when the gauge on hptuners would show mid 14's on a GAS scale.
I'm still working with it. I'm only sharing my lack of experience so maybe it will save someone else the same mistakes. If e85 wasn't so forgiving this engine would be grenaded.
I love E85 on my old 13:1 stock bottom end setup, single walbro and 36# injectors completely out of fuel at 5500 and shifting it early it still ran bottom 11's without even trying
New setup in my sig will have dual walbros and 90# at 58psi injectors. looking to make between 550-600whp, dynamic compression is 10.5:1
New setup in my sig will have dual walbros and 90# at 58psi injectors. looking to make between 550-600whp, dynamic compression is 10.5:1
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 7
From: hattiesburg, Ms
It can be a pain to run it because all of the extra fuel needed, since i am stock internal its not that big of a problem but my 50lbs injectors are at low 70's on duty cycle at the moment. I have a aeromotive a1000 with -8 feed and stock line as the return, aeromtive fuel pump controller and aeromotive fuel pressure regulator. That setup cost alot of money i mean alot.
If you can do a fuel system without spending ton's of money then the e85 is kind of worth it. Lets face it 3-4 bucks a gallon for e85 vs 10-15 bucks a gallon for race gas adds up quick.
I did not worry about going to the trouble of changing my wideband settings and hp tuners to read e85 vs 93. Either leave as is and tune on the wideband like regular gas or use lambda. Just makes it that much less of a headache to worry with. Just make sure you change the stoich in hp tuners.
If you can do a fuel system without spending ton's of money then the e85 is kind of worth it. Lets face it 3-4 bucks a gallon for e85 vs 10-15 bucks a gallon for race gas adds up quick.
I did not worry about going to the trouble of changing my wideband settings and hp tuners to read e85 vs 93. Either leave as is and tune on the wideband like regular gas or use lambda. Just makes it that much less of a headache to worry with. Just make sure you change the stoich in hp tuners.
E85 makes power over pump on literally 99% of the builds ive seen first hand. EVERYONE runs that **** down here, its vastly available though.
The pros i know of are:
Cooler IAT
Higher Octane
Cheaper per gallon than 93
Smells good
Usually makes more torque.
The fuel is oxygenated.
Cons:
Gas mileage will go down a hair depending how well your tuner does part throttle tuning.
Not that available in certain places
$ spent on getting bigger injectors and pump or pumps.
In a performance aspect it will only be superior over 93.
The pros i know of are:
Cooler IAT
Higher Octane
Cheaper per gallon than 93
Smells good
Usually makes more torque.
The fuel is oxygenated.
Cons:
Gas mileage will go down a hair depending how well your tuner does part throttle tuning.
Not that available in certain places
$ spent on getting bigger injectors and pump or pumps.
In a performance aspect it will only be superior over 93.
E85 makes power over pump on literally 99% of the builds ive seen first hand. EVERYONE runs that **** down here, its vastly available though.
The pros i know of are:
Cooler IAT
Higher Octane
Cheaper per gallon than 93
Smells good
Usually makes more torque.
The fuel is oxygenated.
Cons:
Gas mileage will go down a hair depending how well your tuner does part throttle tuning.
Not that available in certain places
$ spent on getting bigger injectors and pump or pumps.
In a performance aspect it will only be superior over 93.
The pros i know of are:
Cooler IAT
Higher Octane
Cheaper per gallon than 93
Smells good
Usually makes more torque.
The fuel is oxygenated.
Cons:
Gas mileage will go down a hair depending how well your tuner does part throttle tuning.
Not that available in certain places
$ spent on getting bigger injectors and pump or pumps.
In a performance aspect it will only be superior over 93.
E85 makes power over pump on literally 99% of the builds ive seen first hand. EVERYONE runs that **** down here, its vastly available though.
The pros i know of are:
Cooler IAT
Higher Octane
Cheaper per gallon than 93
Smells good
Usually makes more torque.
The fuel is oxygenated.
Cons:
Gas mileage will go down a hair depending how well your tuner does part throttle tuning.
Not that available in certain places
$ spent on getting bigger injectors and pump or pumps.
In a performance aspect it will only be superior over 93.
The pros i know of are:
Cooler IAT
Higher Octane
Cheaper per gallon than 93
Smells good
Usually makes more torque.
The fuel is oxygenated.
Cons:
Gas mileage will go down a hair depending how well your tuner does part throttle tuning.
Not that available in certain places
$ spent on getting bigger injectors and pump or pumps.
In a performance aspect it will only be superior over 93.
e85 contains ethanol , ethanol gets a bad rap because people assume it has the same issues as methanol but it doesnt.
poke around the internet on some furums with a lot of e85 activity to learn more truth from people using it , most half truths come from people that have never even tried it. turbo buick furum (t type & grand nationals) has an e 85 section and many people running stock tanks, lines ,etc.. just bigger injectors and pumps on milder builds then stock supply used as return with bigger supply on stouter builds.
pretty much any boosted platform you will see the fastest cars running e85 or e98 whether its SC'ed mustangs , supras , evo's ,etc..... theres also a lot of info on the e85 forum allthough thats kinda ramping down now that so many platforms have their own e85/alternate fuels subforums where info most pertinent to the vehicle you are converting can be found.
poke around the internet on some furums with a lot of e85 activity to learn more truth from people using it , most half truths come from people that have never even tried it. turbo buick furum (t type & grand nationals) has an e 85 section and many people running stock tanks, lines ,etc.. just bigger injectors and pumps on milder builds then stock supply used as return with bigger supply on stouter builds.
pretty much any boosted platform you will see the fastest cars running e85 or e98 whether its SC'ed mustangs , supras , evo's ,etc..... theres also a lot of info on the e85 forum allthough thats kinda ramping down now that so many platforms have their own e85/alternate fuels subforums where info most pertinent to the vehicle you are converting can be found.
e85 contains ethanol , ethanol gets a bad rap because people assume it has the same issues as methanol but it doesnt.
poke around the internet on some furums with a lot of e85 activity to learn more truth from people using it , most half truths come from people that have never even tried it. turbo buick furum (t type & grand nationals) has an e 85 section and many people running stock tanks, lines ,etc.. just bigger injectors and pumps on milder builds then stock supply used as return with bigger supply on stouter builds.
pretty much any boosted platform you will see the fastest cars running e85 or e98 whether its SC'ed mustangs , supras , evo's ,etc..... theres also a lot of info on the e85 forum allthough thats kinda ramping down now that so many platforms have their own e85/alternate fuels subforums where info most pertinent to the vehicle you are converting can be found.
poke around the internet on some furums with a lot of e85 activity to learn more truth from people using it , most half truths come from people that have never even tried it. turbo buick furum (t type & grand nationals) has an e 85 section and many people running stock tanks, lines ,etc.. just bigger injectors and pumps on milder builds then stock supply used as return with bigger supply on stouter builds.
pretty much any boosted platform you will see the fastest cars running e85 or e98 whether its SC'ed mustangs , supras , evo's ,etc..... theres also a lot of info on the e85 forum allthough thats kinda ramping down now that so many platforms have their own e85/alternate fuels subforums where info most pertinent to the vehicle you are converting can be found.
its mostly going to be a street car that will see a few drag strip passes everynow and then to try to get better #s Would you suggest E85 a good fuel for a weekend car?