gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

i think the squating thing is really important b/w shifts and i would not dismiss it so fast rageman. that is precious ET being lost and moment not being forced on the object.

Villain281H

iTrader: (5)

good points Tony! As I said, bracket racing is getting your car (and driver) to repeat. Do that, and you'll likely win. I congratulate you on 5 straight, that's killer. I'm still working on 2 straight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> And if you can repeat on a manual, more power to you. I learned on an auto at 14, so for me to spend the $$$ to convert mine to a stick and learn to drive it all over again, plus get a driveline combo to match or be close to my current one for consistency, times and reliability is something I'll pass on. However, that winning lottery ticket is still out there, so I may do it in the future..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Derek

<small>[ December 19, 2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Villain281H ]</small>

WeatherGuy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>Okay guys, tell the truth, how many of you bought automatics because your wife or girlfriend couldn't drive a manual?

<img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Opposite problem - she loves driving a manual, and I had to convince her why I was getting an automatic.

To the issue at hand - I switched my car from a manual to an auto, with the auto being a tranny that either shifts automatically or can be shifted manually (which is what I do at the track). Why?

Manual - more fun to drive, better on the highway, but = breaks things on launch, pain in the *** in heavy traffic, and slower ET in the quarter. It also gets rid of that misshift hazard, though I rarely if ever did that.

Auto - better quarter times, more forgiving, easier to drive in traffic, and I can still shift it at the track.

mike c.

iTrader: (1)

i agree with the autos. i own a ws.6 m6 and can drive it well,but after driving my buds 99 ss vig 3,200 auto you just stomp and go.i now wish i had an auto, it's easier on parts and racing.i love my m6 but have lost because of missed gears(maybe i suck at driving a m6).if gm brings back the REAL MUSCLE CARS camaro's and trans am's i'll get an auto. i'de rather drive my grandmother's car then drive a mustang!

The Juggernaut

iTrader: (7)

Mod for mod,weight for weight.
An A4 will kill a M6 car.Torque multiplication.
Most Et is in the 60' and A4's got it with no chance of a missed shift.

But those sissies(A4) are not driving. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> (Stab and steer)

I almost take greater pride in driving than I do the ET.....Almost. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

RAGEman

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong>"I understand and realize that that is true, but would you mind, for the sake of my own ignorance, explaining why the A4's can do that neat little trick? It seems like in order to do that you have to change the gearing somewhere, whether it be in the tranny or in the rear. Unless it's the change in shift extension caused by a higher-stall torque converter."

With the right converter you can keep your RPMs VERY close to your HP peak at all times. With a manual you are stuck with the RPM range that your gear spacing affords. Not so with an auto.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, right. That's kinda what I figured.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by gator's 99TA:
<strong>i think the squating thing is really important b/w shifts and i would not dismiss it so fast rageman. that is precious ET being lost and moment not being forced on the object.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not dismissing it, I'm just saying the issue at hand was the time it takes for each tranny type to upshift to the next gear, not weight transfer between shifts.

I still say that a 6-speed can 60' as well or at least very nearly as well as an auto. We will see how close to the 1.4's I can get with my 4.56-gear/28"-tire bolt-on combo. I'll have a 9" rear and can launch with the same confidence that the A4 guys can. I'm predicting some low 1.5's, which would be about where the top A4 guys on the list are. 1.46 is going to be tough, but we'll see. If I can get a 1.52 or so, I'll be happy. I feel that with my M6 power, a 1.55 will be all I'll need to break the bolt-on ET record. 1.709 with 3.42's and 26 x 11.5 x 16 ET Streets = ????? with 4.56's and 28 x 10.5 x 15 ET Drags. We'll see soon enough.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

How many A4 owners were ever congratulated on their driving skills after running a new best ET? How many popular A4 owners are also known as "good drivers"?

Thats what I thought. You could train a chimpanzee to run the same or better ET in your A4 car.

If you are only interested in having a quick car, go ahead and stick with the A4. If you like to challenge yourself and be rewarded for your car and your skills, learn how to shift <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

-Tony

ROB'S SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 01-Z:
<strong>Most Et is in the 60' and A4's got it with no chance of a missed shift.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">funny story. when i first put the 200-4r in(manual valvebody) i went to the track and on the 3rd or 4th run, i launched in second gear. oops. so even though its a manual valvebody, there is still room for error in an auto.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>If you are only interested in having a quick car, go ahead and stick with the A4. If you like to challenge yourself and be rewarded for your car and your skills, learn how to shift</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i have to dissagree with you there Tony. i didnt put an auto in because i couldnt shift. i was a pretty good powershifter in the m6(in its better days). which brings up the point of why i put the auto in. not because i cant shift, but because the m6 is crap. 20,000 miles and it ate ****. synchrose and shift fork. dont want to rebuild my tranny every 20,000 miles. plus i couldnt find a clutch set-up that worked double duty(ei, track and street). and if you have never been to vegas, you wouldnt know that our morning rush hour is from 6 am to 4:30 pm. and the evening rush hour is from 4:30 pm to around 10 pm. definately dont want a clutch that chatters all the time. besides, i still have to shift, i just dont have to push the clutch in. dont get me wrong. i had a blast with the 6-speed, but the cons weighed out the pros. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: ROB'S SS ]</small>

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
How many A4 owners were ever congratulated on their driving skills after running a new best ET? How many popular A4 owners are also known as "good drivers"?

Thats what I thought. You could train a chimpanzee to run the same or better ET in your A4 car.

If you are only interested in having a quick car, go ahead and stick with the A4. If you like to challenge yourself and be rewarded for your car and your skills, learn how to shift
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tony we both know how easy M6's are to drive with slicks on the car, quit trying to perpetuate the myth that driving an M6 requires "mad skillz", it's a load of crap. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Terry, which is easier:

1. Shifting an M6 quickly and consistently
2. Flooring a gas pedal

Yes, racing an M6 on slicks is easier than on radials, because you don't have to worry about spinning the tires. BUT, its still far more difficult than flooring a gas pedal in an A4 car. You had the benefit of owning a couple M6 cars and learned how to drive one, but several other non-manual drivers have not. You still had to learn to shift quickly and time it right, so there was skill involved.

When I ran the 11.4 on Pirelli radials, it was MUCH more challenging than the 10.6 on slicks. I had to control the throttle, when I usually can just floor it. I have to admit it was a TON of fun to run on street tires.

<img border="0" alt="[Driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" />

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I can only think of a few T56 cars that run real fast like Roman, Taner (LT1), Harlan, Nineball and a few others... I am talking 9.9-10.6 folks.

Problem with the scene is that most of the folks in the 9's and 10's have neither a T56 or a 4L60E, they have T350's, T400's and now 'glides.

Sure the ARE C5 and some other noteworthy cars have run 4L60E's for a racing season but most of those trannies were lasting maybe 15-20 passes at the most, once the 3-4 clutches go the tranny needs to be rebuilt.

So my answer is NEITHER. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

12secSS

iTrader: (30)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAGEman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MRZ28HO:
<strong>Driving implies taking turns/curves.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No it doesn't.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Driving is being able to control a vehicle in any condition. Not just playing with a stick. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Negotiating turns, Accelerating, braking. So yes I am correct. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAGEman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Oh, and if anyone wants to race my car (bolt-on for bolt-on, A4 vs M6) meet me at LACR. We'll see if you can run those 'net numbers here.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm assuming LACR is in CA, or at least somewhere along the west coast, so, no, I'm not going to go that far for one challenge, but I'd sure take you up on that if you happen to make it to one of the get-togethers this year.

- Alan -

Bernard - white 2001 Z28 hardtop - 3200-lb. raceweight - stock clutch - stock 3.42 rear - fastest N/A internally-stock LS1 in the nation

11.568 @ 121.13 (1.709)
360 RWHP / 376 RWTQ

Horsepower is a function of torque (and RPM).
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I can do it (Spring Break shootout), I'll be there. But my car is a pig (3600), so I will have to match your weight. Plus I bet you have either haeds or cam (or both). I am just bolt-ons, but I'll still run ya (if I can make it to Texas) for fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Too bad you are not willing to come here. Maybe a mid point? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Anyway, no flames, just internet BS'ing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

I choose an A4 for this car because of the reason's posted previously. LA Traffic, don't want to deal with clutch changes every six months (I probably drive more miles then all the members here combined), I wanted it to be a quick car (ET wise only). I am not against manuals though, I had an LT1 Z28 T56. I never missed a shift racing it at the track, rarely on the street. Some people that know very well even wondered why I got an auto. They say I am a better manual driver than auto driver. My 3rd gen is a converted A4 --> T5. It is a road racer, so ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I respect both for what they offer, neither one is better than the other.

Quick = Auto
Fast = Manual

Reason for this is because an auto, unlike a manual, will multiply the torque on the lower gears. We all know that torque equal better ET (depeding on traction). So mod for mod, a manual could never cut the same 60' as an auto (if traction is similar). The auto will have more available torque on the lower gears than a manual.

<img border="0" alt="[Driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" /> Hey Tony (Nine Ball), I like that new smiley. Might have to put it to use with my 3rd gen.

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: MRZ28HO ]</small>

RAGEman

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MRZ28HO:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAGEman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MRZ28HO:
<strong>Driving implies taking turns/curves.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No it doesn't.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Driving is being able to control a vehicle in any condition. Not just playing with a stick. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Negotiating turns, Accelerating, braking. So yes I am correct. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, you're not. From dictionary.com:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">drive: 3. To guide, control, or direct (a vehicle).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It does not specify any certain condition, therefore the word "driving" does NOT imply taking turns/curves. Which necessarily means that accelerating from a stop to a given distance or speed IS driving, no matter if it involves manual shifting or automatic. We guide, control, and direct our vehicles down the 1320. Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RAGEman:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Oh, and if anyone wants to race my car (bolt-on for bolt-on, A4 vs M6) meet me at LACR. We'll see if you can run those 'net numbers here.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm assuming LACR is in CA, or at least somewhere along the west coast, so, no, I'm not going to go that far for one challenge, but I'd sure take you up on that if you happen to make it to one of the get-togethers this year.

- Alan -

Bernard - white 2001 Z28 hardtop - 3200-lb. raceweight - stock clutch - stock 3.42 rear - fastest N/A internally-stock LS1 in the nation

11.568 @ 121.13 (1.709)
360 RWHP / 376 RWTQ

Horsepower is a function of torque (and RPM).
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I can do it (Spring Break shootout), I'll be there. But my car is a pig (3600), so I will have to match your weight. Plus I bet you have either haeds or cam (or both). I am just bolt-ons, but I'll still run ya (if I can make it to Texas) for fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Too bad you are not willing to come here. Maybe a mid point? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Anyway, no flames, just internet BS'ing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The original heads that came from the factory have been on my car since I bought it brand new in Austin, TX in August 2001. Same for the cam. That's what the "internally-stock" in my sig means.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Reason for this is because an auto, unlike a manual, will multiply the torque on the lower gears. We all know that torque equal better ET (depeding on traction). So mod for mod, a manual could never cut the same 60' as an auto (if traction is similar). The auto will have more available torque on the lower gears than a manual.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And just how much is the engine's torque output multiplied through the rest of the tranny/drivetrain? It can't be that much judging from some of the dyno sheets from similarly-modded A4's I've seen (converter unlocked like it is off the line at the track). Let's see some data. I'm not interested in any useable torque speculation. The real test would be to judge the area under the horsepower curve between the RPM's each car under comparison uses at the strip while running the quarter-mile.

98TAauto

iTrader: (2)

and it goes on and on, oh and onnnnnnn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

it's all a matter of personal perference here <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

You can find some funny reading on the internet. I found this on a driver's training webpage:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Guiding a car down the road can be divided into two separate but essential skills:

A. Maneuvering along roads and dealing with other cars, traffic, rules, pedestrians, etc.

B. Controlling the physical motion of the car - i.e. operating the car as a machine.

An automatic transmission lets you concentrate on A by making B relatively simple. The disadvantage is reduced control of the car. A manual transmission divides your attention more evenly between A and B because B is more complicated. The advantage is more control of the car.
Driving an automatic car is easier in the sense that you don't have to worry about operating the car as a machine, although when that kind of control is necessary, it isn't always there. Driving a manual shift car becomes a continuous, unending exercise, requiring constant attention, but allowing you great control over speed and acceleration.

As far as performance is concerned (acceleration, fuel economy), the driver of a manual shift car has more direct control over these aspects than one in an automatic car. The sportier and higher performance cars are usually manual shift, as are race cars.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've got more... <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

This excerpt is from a nerdy european automotive magazine site:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, a stick-shift can be faster than an automatic, but seldom is. Here's why:

When you read a performance specification about your car you always see that the manual version is slightly faster at 0 to 60 mph than the automatic. But you won't achieve that acceleration figure with your car unless you're a dufus. Why? Because the way the car is tested is to rev the engine to its maximum torque point and then slide your foot off the clutch. After the wheels spin and smoke and the car reaches its limit in first gear the clutch is slightly depressed and the transmission is "power shifted" into second, then third, etc.

This is a ridiculous (and very damaging) procedure and only a fool would treat his or her own car that way.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fools? For launching a car hard? This dude is a WUSS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

promod1955

iTrader: (44)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>How many A4 owners were ever congratulated on their driving skills after running a new best ET? How many popular A4 owners are also known as "good drivers"?

Thats what I thought. You could train a chimpanzee to run the same or better ET in your A4 car.

If you are only interested in having a quick car, go ahead and stick with the A4. If you like to challenge yourself and be rewarded for your car and your skills, learn how to shift <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

-Tony</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i was congradulated when i beat 13 time world chamion anthony bertozzi in my automatic car.(if you dont follow IHRA sportsman racing your probally lost)

when george went 9.99 with his auto we congradulated him.

maybe not in the ls1 world but in the NHRA and IHRA national level, most of the "popular drivers" that are good have auto's.

guys its hard to race a manual yes. let alone be consistent. but lay off on the auto sense of "just point and hit the gas". you sound just like the people who have no concept of drag racing with the..."but dont they just go straight?"

When i went a 7.92 at 178mph there is no way in <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" /> a chimpanzee could have done that. you think that consisted of just pointing and hitting the gas? give me some credit at least <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . besides tony, hows a chimpanzee gonna reach the pedals anyway? <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

Coach 02 A3 Z/28

iTrader: (10)

Ok, Here my take.

I love driving my M6 at the track. It takes mad skills to win at bracket racing with a LS1 M6 Hot Rod. I f you don't believe me just try it. I think you will find it harder than you think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Props to Tony AKA Nine Ball. He has mad skills bracket racing a M6 Hot Rod. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

I just love it when Iam the only one at a bracket racing(most of the time 50 or plus cars) with a Stick Hot Rod and kick major butt. I finished in the top 15 at the track I ran at this pasted year and went to the IHRA bracket finals. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

I race every weekend that it is not raining and it is great to have all the people(older drag racers) come up to me and say man you can drive that Hot Rod. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

I do miss some shifts. More than I care to count. I have over 260 passes this year on the Hot Rod since April 2002. I make about 20 passes a weekend. Missing shifts this year has cost me some major money. But, thats Drag racing. Iam not going to cry about it. I was in alot of finals this year. I have won some and missed a shift to lose the races also. If I was in a a4 car who knows. But, I love racing a M6 Hot Rod because their is not very many people that can drive a stick and win bracket racing. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

For now, I am going to stay with the stick. Iam a different breed of cat. I love to be different <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

Great topic. I have loved reading what everyone opinions are about a M6 VS a A4. What do I think, which one is faster? It depends on the day at the track. Hell, anyone can win a race on any given day. <img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" />

Happy Holidays. <img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" />

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Coach 02 M6 Z/28 ]</small>

PontiacFireTA

Im still confused on this ****, most of the beasted out trannys are automatics, you shift them ALL, does that not take skill? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Coach 02 A3 Z/28

iTrader: (10)

The difference in the two is you have to push in the clutch and pull or push the shifter to change gears in a stick. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

In a auto, all you have to do is push or pull the shifter to change gears. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hence, more chances to mess up in a stick than in an auto. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

Coach <img border="0" alt="[Driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" />

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Coach 02 M6 Z/28 ]</small>