SFI 25.2 Mustang/LSx build "The Renegade"
09-26-2008, 08:24 PM
#1221
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I wasn't trying to come off better than anyone. You know I am going to take advice from guys have have been there and have experienced this already. How can I listen to a guy that has never built and LSx.
I'm not taking anything away from the guys that make 800-1200hp, its a great accomplishment but I can't learn anything from their engine program if they don't have something thats out of the ordinary. Joe from 6 speeds inc is a great guy to talk to, sure he doesn't make 2500hp but he twists that LSx to almost 10,000rpms. You can learn something from his engine program.
How can I take advice from someone who has not put their motors through the same punishment? Again, not saying I am on another level but you can only learn from guys that are making more power or using more RPMs.
Again once the engine program is finished the parts will be available.
I'm not taking anything away from the guys that make 800-1200hp, its a great accomplishment but I can't learn anything from their engine program if they don't have something thats out of the ordinary. Joe from 6 speeds inc is a great guy to talk to, sure he doesn't make 2500hp but he twists that LSx to almost 10,000rpms. You can learn something from his engine program.
How can I take advice from someone who has not put their motors through the same punishment? Again, not saying I am on another level but you can only learn from guys that are making more power or using more RPMs.
Again once the engine program is finished the parts will be available.
Like most, I have personally, and quietly, followed this thing from start to finish and was very excited how quickly it has done so well. I think anyone can take tride and true parts and have atleast more predictable and consistant success, BBC-SBC-SBF..etc But to do it on a new and still developing platform to me is much more exciting. Kudos to you guys for all the real world knowledge that many have gained from your money and time. I dont care to even take a stab at the LSX block issues. I, like many here, dont have the experience or background to step in that mudhole.
Good day and best of luck
Brandon Nix
09-26-2008, 08:43 PM
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It would be nice to get some feeback from the engine shop in the latest issue of HRM that made 2050hp with a twin 88mm turbo LSX block for GM. Said they made over 100 dyno pulls and pulled it apart and all the bearings looked new. The power did peak at 7100rpm so they may have kept the runs in that range.
09-26-2008, 09:28 PM
#1224
As you said yourself rpms are the killer. By memory the 6 speeds camp has had alot of issues keeping together at half your hp. RPM kicks you in the pants anytime vibration and a constantly unstable envirnment are housing precision functions. We just rebuild a high tech manufacturing machine that actually broke a 3" thick steel flange due to the load clutch breaking and hitting 20K rpm when it has functioned for years at 15K-16K rpm.
Like most, I have personally, and quietly, followed this thing from start to finish and was very excited how quickly it has done so well. I think anyone can take tride and true parts and have atleast more predictable and consistant success, BBC-SBC-SBF..etc But to do it on a new and still developing platform to me is much more exciting. Kudos to you guys for all the real world knowledge that many have gained from your money and time. I dont care to even take a stab at the LSX block issues. I, like many here, dont have the experience or background to step in that mudhole.
Good day and best of luck
Brandon Nix
Like most, I have personally, and quietly, followed this thing from start to finish and was very excited how quickly it has done so well. I think anyone can take tride and true parts and have atleast more predictable and consistant success, BBC-SBC-SBF..etc But to do it on a new and still developing platform to me is much more exciting. Kudos to you guys for all the real world knowledge that many have gained from your money and time. I dont care to even take a stab at the LSX block issues. I, like many here, dont have the experience or background to step in that mudhole.
Good day and best of luck
Brandon Nix
Thanks man Joe has definitely been some help weather he knows it or not.
Phil
09-27-2008, 09:11 AM
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09-27-2008, 09:23 AM
#1227
It is confusing how I wrote it.....
Powerglide with an 8% loss. Please excuse me if my math is wrong.
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.50 final drive x 28" tire = 152mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.50 final drive x 30" tire = 162mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.25 final drive x 28" tire = 163mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.25 final drive x 30" tire = 175mph after converter slippage
Powerglide with an 8% loss. Please excuse me if my math is wrong.
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.50 final drive x 28" tire = 152mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.50 final drive x 30" tire = 162mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.25 final drive x 28" tire = 163mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.25 final drive x 30" tire = 175mph after converter slippage
Actually yes it was.
09-27-2008, 09:26 AM
#1229
It would be nice to get some feeback from the engine shop in the latest issue of HRM that made 2050hp with a twin 88mm turbo LSX block for GM. Said they made over 100 dyno pulls and pulled it apart and all the bearings looked new. The power did peak at 7100rpm so they may have kept the runs in that range.
09-27-2008, 09:28 AM
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It is confusing how I wrote it.....
Powerglide with an 8% loss. Please excuse me if my math is wrong.
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.50 final drive x 28" tire = 152mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.50 final drive x 30" tire = 162mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.25 final drive x 28" tire = 163mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.25 final drive x 30" tire = 175mph after converter slippage
Powerglide with an 8% loss. Please excuse me if my math is wrong.
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.50 final drive x 28" tire = 152mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.50 final drive x 30" tire = 162mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.25 final drive x 28" tire = 163mph after converter slippage
7100 RPMs x 1.00 gear x 3.25 final drive x 30" tire = 175mph after converter slippage
in the leafspring car we have a 3.70 gear with a 30" tall tire and have been 180.8 at like 7200-7300 id have to check the data logger
09-27-2008, 09:38 AM
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I never thought I would need to search the net for info about how well the LSX block is holding up. I was under the impression that it was GOOD TO GO.. Excuse me for misunderstanding.. 
The thing I want to know is this.. We are planning to go 427 inches with All Pro or ETP LS7 style heads with a carb, solid roller setup, the whole nine yards with 2 SpeedTech kits.. Probably gonna spin it to around 7500 rpms and make somewhere around 1200 flywheel hp..
CAN THE LSX BLOCK HANDLE IT?????????????????
The thing I want to know is this.. We are planning to go 427 inches with All Pro or ETP LS7 style heads with a carb, solid roller setup, the whole nine yards with 2 SpeedTech kits.. Probably gonna spin it to around 7500 rpms and make somewhere around 1200 flywheel hp..
CAN THE LSX BLOCK HANDLE IT?????????????????
Our 440" LSX uses one NOS Pro Fogger kit. We caculate about 1336 horsepower at the crank to run 3000 pounds at 179.
If you want my suggestions they are free. We have learned a lot over the past year.
Robin
09-27-2008, 09:43 AM
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09-27-2008, 09:43 AM
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It would be nice to get some feeback from the engine shop in the latest issue of HRM that made 2050hp with a twin 88mm turbo LSX block for GM. Said they made over 100 dyno pulls and pulled it apart and all the bearings looked new. The power did peak at 7100rpm so they may have kept the runs in that range.
WHat feedback would you like? They also build my engines. I have posted what we found and what changes that they made in my engine as well as the turbo engine.
Ask and I will get the answers.
Robin
09-27-2008, 09:55 AM
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Ask a builder who has built many high horspower engines, the block is a foundation. It will need to be tailored to your ultimate use.
Our 440" LSX uses one NOS Pro Fogger kit. We caculate about 1336 horsepower at the crank to run 3000 pounds at 179.
If you want my suggestions they are free. We have learned a lot over the past year.
Robin
Our 440" LSX uses one NOS Pro Fogger kit. We caculate about 1336 horsepower at the crank to run 3000 pounds at 179.
If you want my suggestions they are free. We have learned a lot over the past year.
Robin
Well we have decided to go BBC.. The LSX block is going back for a refund.. We are on a tight budget and just do not have the time or money to do any kind of guessing or testing with this block. We figured that we could buy the block have it bored and finished put my callies 4" crank and lunati billet rods in it with a new set of pistons to be at 427" and go run the **** out of it. The fact that you need bigger this and bigger that and billet cranks with special balancing and all that good stuff is just not in the cards for us right now. And its a really big bummer for us too because we were really really excited about getting the block and getting a nice set of heads so we could make some really good power for the nitrous lsx world, but with all the problems we are hearing about we just don't want to chance it.
SO.. the All Aluminum 526 BBC is going in.. Reher Morrison Sheet Metal Intake, 2 Dominators, 2 Foggers, etc etc..
09-27-2008, 10:03 AM
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Well we have decided to go BBC.. The LSX block is going back for a refund.. We are on a tight budget and just do not have the time or money to do any kind of guessing or testing with this block. We figured that we could buy the block have it bored and finished put my callies 4" crank and lunati billet rods in it with a new set of pistons to be at 427" and go run the **** out of it. The fact that you need bigger this and bigger that and billet cranks with special balancing and all that good stuff is just not in the cards for us right now. And its a really big bummer for us too because we were really really excited about getting the block and getting a nice set of heads so we could make some really good power for the nitrous lsx world, but with all the problems we are hearing about we just don't want to chance it.
SO.. the All Aluminum 526 BBC is going in.. Reher Morrison Sheet Metal Intake, 2 Dominators, 2 Foggers, etc etc..
SO.. the All Aluminum 526 BBC is going in.. Reher Morrison Sheet Metal Intake, 2 Dominators, 2 Foggers, etc etc..
09-27-2008, 10:13 AM
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Well we have decided to go BBC.. The LSX block is going back for a refund.. We are on a tight budget and just do not have the time or money to do any kind of guessing or testing with this block. We figured that we could buy the block have it bored and finished put my callies 4" crank and lunati billet rods in it with a new set of pistons to be at 427" and go run the **** out of it. The fact that you need bigger this and bigger that and billet cranks with special balancing and all that good stuff is just not in the cards for us right now. And its a really big bummer for us too because we were really really excited about getting the block and getting a nice set of heads so we could make some really good power for the nitrous lsx world, but with all the problems we are hearing about we just don't want to chance it.
SO.. the All Aluminum 526 BBC is going in.. Reher Morrison Sheet Metal Intake, 2 Dominators, 2 Foggers, etc etc..
SO.. the All Aluminum 526 BBC is going in.. Reher Morrison Sheet Metal Intake, 2 Dominators, 2 Foggers, etc etc..
That is your right. Really IMO your goals were very attainable. I am not currently using a billet crankshaft. I am using 1 stage. I use a 4.185 bore. All of the things that you have listed in your build are more conservative than others being discussed here.
I would love to use 2 stages.
Also remember there are people here making suggestions on their experience with other engines. I would seek out builders who have built the high horsepower LSX engines. A lot of testing and development has been done. I know that this valuable to those who have tested and gained this knowledge.
The bore spacing and the additional material on the crankshaft make the BBC a very reliable engine. Like the SBC there are years and years of development and information.
Either way good luck with your build.
Robin
09-27-2008, 10:22 AM
#1238
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Tyler,
I can say I am pissed but really just tired of listening to people that have no real world experience. They talk to one or two people and it makes them an expert. I can tell you this I don't consider myself an expert on the LS1 but having built a 1800-200hp LSx and seeing what happens first hand, I've got a headstart. I have created some partnerships with some of the leaders in the R & D side of the LS1 motors that I look to as the "Experts".
Whats funny is you will never see them on a board and they have a gameplan on how to fix the issue. When I talked to one of my consultants he said, check A,B,C,D. I had already seen A,B,C. Sure enough we went back and found D.
Parts should be arriving soon!
I can say I am pissed but really just tired of listening to people that have no real world experience. They talk to one or two people and it makes them an expert. I can tell you this I don't consider myself an expert on the LS1 but having built a 1800-200hp LSx and seeing what happens first hand, I've got a headstart. I have created some partnerships with some of the leaders in the R & D side of the LS1 motors that I look to as the "Experts".
Whats funny is you will never see them on a board and they have a gameplan on how to fix the issue. When I talked to one of my consultants he said, check A,B,C,D. I had already seen A,B,C. Sure enough we went back and found D.
Parts should be arriving soon!
PM me if need be but I am lost here. I am running the SAME block for over a year. I am not sure if anybody has run the same LSX block as long and as hard as I have to date. We have had some issues to get past but none of which have been block associated. I shift at 8800rpm and have been since day one. I have no block alterations to date but would love to see what all these issues are about.
Issues I have had:
1 - 2 pc. crank trigger coming apart
2 - loosing crank signal with modified 2 pc. trigger
3 - Not a problem but swapped to a 4in stroke crank
4 - Converter was bottomed out on the crankshaft causing thrust bearing issues
Phil, you mentioned that you talked to Billy Briggs, since my motor has been used for his development and testing purposes I think he would have mentioned something to me but if there is something looming on the horizon I would like to hear about it. We have 2 more motors that will be ready for next years new projects...
Tom
09-27-2008, 10:43 AM
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Tom's post brings up a good point.
Phil,
have you talked to LME or LMR? Their race car also has a LSX block that has pushed 2500+ HP and got beat on real good, they did a few disassemblies for inspection and everything was looking good. They ran the **** out of that car and it was trapping as high as 193.
Phil,
have you talked to LME or LMR? Their race car also has a LSX block that has pushed 2500+ HP and got beat on real good, they did a few disassemblies for inspection and everything was looking good. They ran the **** out of that car and it was trapping as high as 193.