dyno software
02-26-2010, 12:49 PM
#2
So I just looked at their 'Quarter Pro' program and I find it amusing. Do people actually pay this much?
I have a program I've built that does the same thing (better in my opinion), but I never really figured people would want to buy it.
I'm surprised they don't really have a decent rolling resistance model (it appears) that varies with tire pressure. This is a huge deal for demonstrating the the effect . Rolling resistance plays more of role than most people realize. (they might just not be showing that page, as it seems as though that would be a huge omission)
I would also think that they would have inputs for rear spring rate and damping rate to determine the rates of weight transfer.
I will give them credit for tackling automatic transmissions with torque converters. Something I've never really wanted to get into. Either way, modeling the launch period is difficult - especially since it involves a human.
I've found it much easier to just make 60' time an input and calculate from there. Most people tend to know what 60' time they will run. A program telling me I will run a 1.25 second 60' in my GTO means nothing to me as I know that will probably not be possible regardless of power.
I have a program I've built that does the same thing (better in my opinion), but I never really figured people would want to buy it.
I'm surprised they don't really have a decent rolling resistance model (it appears) that varies with tire pressure. This is a huge deal for demonstrating the the effect . Rolling resistance plays more of role than most people realize. (they might just not be showing that page, as it seems as though that would be a huge omission)
I would also think that they would have inputs for rear spring rate and damping rate to determine the rates of weight transfer.
I will give them credit for tackling automatic transmissions with torque converters. Something I've never really wanted to get into. Either way, modeling the launch period is difficult - especially since it involves a human.
I've found it much easier to just make 60' time an input and calculate from there. Most people tend to know what 60' time they will run. A program telling me I will run a 1.25 second 60' in my GTO means nothing to me as I know that will probably not be possible regardless of power.
02-27-2010, 05:01 AM
#4
In my opinion, Engine dyno software comes in two flavors.
Desktop Dyno type stuff ($100-$500)
and
Engine Simulation Programs ($10,000+) such as Ricardo WAVE, GT Power, Lotus Engine Simulation, etc...
Having used both at some point, I will say this. If you only have a few hours to invest, the cheaper desktop dyno stuff will probably be closer to real world. The reason being, it takes a good 20-50 hours to properly setup a decent engine simulation model, and thats assuming you have decent data (head flow coefficients, system temperatures, induction and exhaust dimensions, etc...), or know how to calculate approximate values.
The problem with the desktop dyno stuff is that it just uses approximations from empirical results. It might be able to show the general torqe shift you would get from a cam change, but again, its not physically calculating all the thermodynamic and fluid dynamics solutions to the entire intake and exhaust system.
For example, I used DynoSim one time to just see what it had an LS2 making. Well, with stock, catted exhaust manifolds, it made ~410 bhp. Not bad. But, if I took out cats, it made like ~440 bhp, and if I went to long tube headers, ~490 bhp, and stepped headers, no mufflers made ~550 bhp.
It probably could be useful for seeing the effect say LSA has on your torque curve, but I wouln'd trust the absolute values it displays.
I have trouble putting faith in anything that doesn't take over an hour to solve.
When you get true engine sim models properly setup, they can be within a few percent of actual performance and will accuratly show what changes in the induction or exhaust system would have on VE, torque, etc... However, you really have to almost have an engineering degree to use these, or have a lot of experience.
I know it sounds like I'm being really hard on this company. I don't mean to be. For what they are offering for $99, it is not a bad deal. Their quarter mile sim doesn't look all that bad (they at least include driveline inertia), and even for a 'desktop dyno' the price is not bad.
Desktop Dyno type stuff ($100-$500)
and
Engine Simulation Programs ($10,000+) such as Ricardo WAVE, GT Power, Lotus Engine Simulation, etc...
Having used both at some point, I will say this. If you only have a few hours to invest, the cheaper desktop dyno stuff will probably be closer to real world. The reason being, it takes a good 20-50 hours to properly setup a decent engine simulation model, and thats assuming you have decent data (head flow coefficients, system temperatures, induction and exhaust dimensions, etc...), or know how to calculate approximate values.
The problem with the desktop dyno stuff is that it just uses approximations from empirical results. It might be able to show the general torqe shift you would get from a cam change, but again, its not physically calculating all the thermodynamic and fluid dynamics solutions to the entire intake and exhaust system.
For example, I used DynoSim one time to just see what it had an LS2 making. Well, with stock, catted exhaust manifolds, it made ~410 bhp. Not bad. But, if I took out cats, it made like ~440 bhp, and if I went to long tube headers, ~490 bhp, and stepped headers, no mufflers made ~550 bhp.
It probably could be useful for seeing the effect say LSA has on your torque curve, but I wouln'd trust the absolute values it displays.
I have trouble putting faith in anything that doesn't take over an hour to solve.
When you get true engine sim models properly setup, they can be within a few percent of actual performance and will accuratly show what changes in the induction or exhaust system would have on VE, torque, etc... However, you really have to almost have an engineering degree to use these, or have a lot of experience.
I know it sounds like I'm being really hard on this company. I don't mean to be. For what they are offering for $99, it is not a bad deal. Their quarter mile sim doesn't look all that bad (they at least include driveline inertia), and even for a 'desktop dyno' the price is not bad.
02-27-2010, 05:24 AM
#5
Just as a case in point about the quarter mile program. This is a comparison of my predicted performance vs my actual 1/8 mile performance (HP Tuners log) from my own tractive effort simulation.
This was done for far cheaper than $200.
This was done for far cheaper than $200.
03-04-2010, 05:08 PM
#6
I was looking at the full version dyno software not the actual jr. version.
engine_pro
It is pretty expensive but is cheaper than some too. Just kicking it around.
Thanks for the input.
engine_pro
It is pretty expensive but is cheaper than some too. Just kicking it around.
Thanks for the input.
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You're right, they're crazy.
03-06-2010, 08:49 AM
#12
They put a deal up on their site.
There is still 3 1/2 days to sell 97 more for $99 and then you will get the Pro version for free. This is a killer deal.
Great for trying different cams, headers etc. Plus all of the other software that comes with it.
There is still 3 1/2 days to sell 97 more for $99 and then you will get the Pro version for free. This is a killer deal.
Great for trying different cams, headers etc. Plus all of the other software that comes with it.
