MauriSSio

i was talking mostly about the rods and pistons.i see theyve changed them for a reason, so your video doesnt really prove much. i did a search on google and the highest hp with stock bottom end that ive found so far is 647rwhp.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

thats well over 700 at the crank....be it as it may, the 5.0, LSA/LS9/LS3 is no slouch. but there is a lot more potential cost wise and ability wise in the LS motors. the 5.0 is still limited to displacement.

MauriSSio

displacement is only a part of the equation. I see a lot of guys here making good power despite the lack of displacement (compared to my 533) thats because The most important part is the cylinder heads and the 5.0 heads might be efficient enough that the lack of displacement might not hurt it so much. We will see.

bww3588

iTrader: (49)

we shall, but my money is still on the LS3 or whatever GM comes up with for the 2011. unfortunately, Ford has a reputation lately for putting out inferior engines.

nick.celis

iTrader: (11)

Ford did something good! The new mustang looks promising, though ill stick with my gto

BlackNiteWS6

iTrader: (2)

I find it interesting that the mustang weighs so little despite the new federal mandate
for all new cars to build stronger cars to handle side impacts. Well adding strength means adding more metal which adds weight. The mustang's dimensions are about the same as the new camaro yet it weighs about 400lbs less??? I doubt if the mustang is built as strong as the camaro. The new camaro feels rock solid on the road. I'm impressed with it.
I drove an '03 cobra and wasn't impressed at all. The shifter in the stock cobra feels retarded and you smack your knuckles into the lower dash/radio area. That car wouldn't be **** if it wasn't for the aftermarket fixing its issues. And its well known that Ford lies about their power numbers. People are getting smarter, thats why the new camaro out sold the mustang since the new camaro was released. And Chevy ain't gonna let Ford out run them. Unless Roush or Shelby has to make the mustang a real car..lol. And look what those mustangs cost over a stock SS. I can't to see what the 2015 camaro will be like, since chevy is going to use a smaller chassis. I'm sure that ford will still need a blower to run with an NA camaro...as usual.

BlackNiteWS6

iTrader: (2)

True the heads are very important, but the heads have to meet the size of
the motor. You cant run big high flowing heads if the motor isn't big enough to take advantage of the heads. The displacement is what draws the air thru the heads, so you still need displacement to make big power and more importantly torque.
Small motors don't make the same torque curve as a smaller motor. Small motors need to rev alot higher and use big cams or a power adder.

MauriSSio

inferior engines?do we really have to go there? the modular engine family for Ford has been a very reliable engine.Incredible power?not really unless you count the 4.6 DOHC, 4.6 supercharged dohc, 5.4 SOhc, 5.4sohc supercharger, and their 5.4supercharged dohc. anyways lets see how they compare with the gm engines....

a Ford V8 has been in the Wards Top 10 Best Engines list 8 times since 2000-2009.

Dodges V8 (Hemi) has been in there 6 times from 2003-2009

Chevy V8's?? 1 time (6.0 Vortec in 2008) since 2000

BlackNiteWS6

iTrader: (2)

Let not forget it takes Roush or Shelby to rework a mustang to run a few tenths faster than the new camaro SS and cost a **** load more than a camaro. And since you're talking about the '03 cobra. Since ford can't build a strong NA motor they need to supercharge their car to run with an f-body. And the stock '03 cobra only ran mid 12's on a good day. Drop a $600 torque converter in a bone stock LS1 f-body and run mid 12's. It's only after you port the blower, add a smaller blower pulley, better exhaust to get the cobra in the 11's. There are tons of LS1 running 11's running cam only and the normal bolt ons. And its true ford would still build that crappy 4.6l mill if the camaro didn;t come back. This is the first year for the 5th gen camaro...it will only get better from here. Thats why ford is working on a new motor...and i'll bet the mustang won;t run worth of *hit with the 5.0 motor. Then Roush and Shelby will have to run to fords aid and throw a blower on the car and charge over $50,000 or more for a mid 12 second roach. For $6500 you can bolt a blower on the camaro SS and run mid 11's

MauriSSio

you didnt like the cobra, thats cool all cars have their shortcomings. I know the F-Bodies have more than their fair share of them (since i used to own one). Im not gonna sit here and bash on F-Bodies on your own site and plus, u guys know very well where the shortcomings and compromises of those cars are.
The new mustang weighs about 250-300lbs less, NOT 400lbs. The new Camaro weighs so much because its built on a platform meant for premium SEDANS.
Also, Ford cant lie about their numbers when their engines are now SAE Certified. But if you want to go there with that, ive seen SOME dyno numbers (and et/mph's) of the automatic 2010 camaros and a lot of them seem to be down for some reason or another.
The Camaro outsold the Mustang because of pent up demand but i have a strong feeling that now that the hype is dying down and theyre becoming common, sales will come down as well. Im starting to see a bunch at the dealerships.And this new GT engine is creating quite a stir, theres already more than 11,000 preorders for the 2011 mustang.
As for "Ford needing a blower" people always have excuses no matter what, when it aint one thing its another. Ive beaten 4 LS1 F-Bodies in my 533 Galaxie and one of the dudes i beat started saying it was only because i had a bigger engine and went off about how much better mileage he gets WTF?!?!

anyways, like i said, GM will probably respond with more power and Ford might not, which is ok. The Mustang is a well balanced car that handles VERY well, is relatively nimble, very attractive and anyway you look at it 111mph+ traps and mid 12's aint bad and is plenty quick.

BlackNiteWS6

iTrader: (2)

Geeze whoever rated the Ford motors forgot to mention that since 2005 Ford
started using a 2 piece spark plug that breaks off inside the head!!!
You must only reading Ford magazines. or Motor-Trend. The LS motor has been hailed as one of the most reliable, efficient and powerful engine ever made. it was also awarded for the fact it makes more power then over head cam motors at equal displacement.

BlackNiteWS6

iTrader: (2)

I seem to remember ford having a massive recall in 2000 cause ford "claimed" the DOHC cobra was rated at 300 hp. And it wasn't until buyers complained that ford finally recalled the car to change the cams and the intake. So if it wasn't for Ford loyal customers wondering why their car felt down on power i wonder if ford would have done anything.
I remember reading about it, but since i knew a manager that worked at Northeast Lincoln/Mercury in Philly, Pa he was telling people he knew to not buy the mustang since the motor was down on power. Ford did fix it, but i never heard of GM selling any under rated LS1. Actually they dynoed over 300rwhp most of the time on six speed cars. Thats about 350hp at the crank. My '99 SS M6 ran 12.7 at 110+ mph with an air lid and filter and drag radials.

MauriSSio

Do you understand how SAE Certification works??

Do you understand what being in the wards top ten engines means? And the fact it makes more power than than OHC of equal displacement?? which OHC of equal displacement did they compare it to just wondering?

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

Who cares about ford from 2010 and earlier, we all know about these issues lol. This thread is about the 11gt!! We know gm makes a better platform, the 11gt is just a step in the right direction for Ford. Fyi it was 99 that had the issues in 2000 for released the PI(power improvement) heads.

N20GMC

The problem was with the DOHC 4.6 in the cobra's. They were supposed to have 320 hp and were making much less.

The PI heads and intake were on the 2 valve GT's. And they were made to make more power than the even bigger turd 96-98 2 valve Gt's.

Johnnystock

iTrader: (6)

^^this list of award doesnt make any sense. If you read rag mag, they will tell you than an LS7 is a piece of crap because its 7.0l and has an oudated pushrod engine. But they dont know those LS7 stock heads will outflow most of the heads outhere!!!

Everyone will have to admit that the new LSx series engine are damn good engines. Stock crank is good for 1000hp and the stock block too, which put em in the best designed engine IMO.

The only thing that rag-mags care about is the liter/hp equation, which is silly. A bunch of tech ignorant.

Johnnystock

iTrader: (6)

Thing is that the new LS3 is really strong in stock form. Stronger than the old LS1. We agree that it might be unsafe running 800hp on stock shortblock, but the point is that a lot of builds are running stock crank and block with over 800hp without problems. Dont tell me its safe to run 800hp on any 4.6l...

My setup is a stock crank and block and I'm close to mid 500rwhp. No problem yet my friend since 2 years.

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

I have to laugh when people say "with bolt-ons and a tune" when referring to the Mustang. The car already runs on the ragged edge, you can't get more aggressive with the tune. It's their new adaptive spark control technology:

The adaptive spark control system keeps the engine running right on the knock sensor all the time, continuously adjusting the spark advance to avoid detonation regardless of the fuel used.

And I honestly don't believe ARH is getting similar gains from long tubes that the LS1's got. The Mustang engine is too efficient to pick up a whole lot more power. The BMEP is too high. More efficient than the Ferrari Enzo. If they get another 50-60hp out of this car without raising peak power rpm,then they will have surpassed F1, Cup, and Pro-stock technology. Call me crazy but I don't see it happening with "bolt-ons and a tune" haha.

bearcatt

iTrader: (41)

+1




+1 Those were pretty much my thoughts.



.

MauriSSio

the stock BBF crank and block can take over 1000hp as well, i guess it puts it in the best designed engine right there with the LS7??? nah i dont think so.

Wards Top 10 Engines is based on a global scale on the most reliable engines, it has nothing to do with HP/Liter

btw, i see a lot of people on this board going with the iron block for its extra strength characteristics, but why do that if the stock block is good for 1000hp??? kinda redundant aint it???