400 HP internally stock no Power adder?
04-13-2004, 12:31 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by Colonel
You're not fooling anyone who's been around the block a time or two. You can't get that kind of TQ internally stock. It just won't flow that kind of air even with ALL external restrictions removed.
Money where my mouth is? Sure..but how? Do I doubt that the car can come to ANOTHER unbiased dynojet and lay down over 400/400? No. Do I believe it internally stock (in my book that means LS1 cam, untouched LS1 heads, and never having had the valve covers off) and NA? Not on your life. I was pulling 11.5s internally stock 4 years ago when most of the rest of the best were still in the 12s. And I've put down 359 RWHP with an internally stock '02 A4 LS1. I KNOW all the tricks and I know what these engines are capable and 400/400 ain't it.
Electric water pumps and LSx intakes don't add that much to a bolt-on car for those of you who are buying this. All the rest of the mods are pretty standard, IMO.
Money where my mouth is? Sure..but how? Do I doubt that the car can come to ANOTHER unbiased dynojet and lay down over 400/400? No. Do I believe it internally stock (in my book that means LS1 cam, untouched LS1 heads, and never having had the valve covers off) and NA? Not on your life. I was pulling 11.5s internally stock 4 years ago when most of the rest of the best were still in the 12s. And I've put down 359 RWHP with an internally stock '02 A4 LS1. I KNOW all the tricks and I know what these engines are capable and 400/400 ain't it.
Electric water pumps and LSx intakes don't add that much to a bolt-on car for those of you who are buying this. All the rest of the mods are pretty standard, IMO.
The fact is... I DID IT!
I am sure when you were blazing trails there were plenty of doubters, I guess I will just have to overlook them.
04-13-2004, 03:27 AM
#42
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So amazingly you ran a "Record" dyno w/o filming it? Go do it again and this time film it!
Hey guess what I caught the largest fish in the world yesterday. No its the truth, sadly it jumped off my 80' ft yaucht right before she sank so I can't proove it.
Hey guess what I caught the largest fish in the world yesterday. No its the truth, sadly it jumped off my 80' ft yaucht right before she sank so I can't proove it.
04-13-2004, 07:12 AM
#44
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The car has kooks headers, 4 inch exhaust, aluminum flywheel, lsx intake, electric water pump, pulley, lid and tuning.
400/400? Yeah right
04-13-2004, 07:24 AM
#45
Spindoctor, you're obviously not very knowledgable with the internal characteristics of an LS1 motor. It's NOT physically possible to get 100% STOCK internals to flow that much air. When this argument refers to STOCK I assume you're referring to a stock LS1 cam, and completely untouched stock 5.7L LS1 heads. If so, it's not possible.
There's people on here including myself that have been in this game since the LS1's came out in early 98. I spent 3 1/2 yrs squeezing every bit of juice I could out of my old motor and I can tell you on the net or to your face with 100 bucks in my hand, there is no way on this planet you're going to make 400/400 on stock internals. The physical characteristics of the STOCK 5.7L motor will not allow it.
There's people on here including myself that have been in this game since the LS1's came out in early 98. I spent 3 1/2 yrs squeezing every bit of juice I could out of my old motor and I can tell you on the net or to your face with 100 bucks in my hand, there is no way on this planet you're going to make 400/400 on stock internals. The physical characteristics of the STOCK 5.7L motor will not allow it.
04-13-2004, 11:44 AM
#46
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STOCK 5.7L motor will not allow it.
I'll tell you what. I'll make a wager with you. I'll provide you with a bone stock '02
Firehawk. I'll install all of your X package on it and videotape the whole thing. You then come to Kansas City, do YOUR tuning. We'll slap it on a local, unbiased, proven Dynojet 248. If you make 400/400, you'll have your proof. If it doesn't, it stays on the car for free.
If you can do it, you get your proof. If you can't, it goes into the circular file with the rest of the BS claims.
04-13-2004, 11:48 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by blk~2000~Z28
Hey guess what I caught the largest fish in the world yesterday. No its the truth, sadly it jumped off my 80' ft yaucht right before she sank so I can't proove it.
04-13-2004, 12:08 PM
#48
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"I am not trying to fool you or anyone else. I am stating a fact. I have spoken to you at Steele and I respect you. 359 rwhp is incredible with an I.S. auto. I know 400/400 is unbelieveable, I could hardly believe it myself.
The fact is... I DID IT!"
Ok, let me see if I can find a way to believe it.
What are the head casting numbers?
What rearend gearing?
What wheels and tires?
No belt you said?
Did you buy this car new? If used, how do you know it was BONE stock?
What fuel was used?
Any plans to dyno it on a different dynojet?
The fact is... I DID IT!"
Ok, let me see if I can find a way to believe it.
What are the head casting numbers?
What rearend gearing?
What wheels and tires?
No belt you said?
Did you buy this car new? If used, how do you know it was BONE stock?
What fuel was used?
Any plans to dyno it on a different dynojet?
04-13-2004, 12:27 PM
#49
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You could hardly believe it because it didn't happen. At least not with an internally stock engine.
There are "factory freaks" as some have stated. They are merely engineswith marginally better components from the factory...better tolerances, etc. You might find a variance of 10rwhp from the factory. These are the cars pulling 350rwhp internally stock.
Even doing a top end build using the stock components and working your way down to a ~2% leak can't put down 400hp, much less 400tq.
Given the stock components, it is an IMPOSSIBLE feat.
There are "factory freaks" as some have stated. They are merely engineswith marginally better components from the factory...better tolerances, etc. You might find a variance of 10rwhp from the factory. These are the cars pulling 350rwhp internally stock.
Even doing a top end build using the stock components and working your way down to a ~2% leak can't put down 400hp, much less 400tq.
Given the stock components, it is an IMPOSSIBLE feat.
04-13-2004, 12:39 PM
#51
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FWIW, my MTI Stage II LS6 heads with XE-R 224/220 .581/.581 cam and 11.1:1 CR only put down 397 ft/lbs...so you can understand my disbelief in your claims. This was with an LS6 intake (shown to pretty much be just as strong as the LSX in bolt-on applications), Kooks stepped headers, a off-road 3 into 4" Y-collector, with a cuttout and all the other bolt-ons except an electric pump. 423-397 was the resulting power. Notice my sub 400 TQ despite the heavy mods.
That engine ran 11.20 and 121.5 MPH with stock gearing, stock heavy wheels, and a 3525 lb raceweight. A definite REAL WORLD performer.
That engine ran 11.20 and 121.5 MPH with stock gearing, stock heavy wheels, and a 3525 lb raceweight. A definite REAL WORLD performer.
04-13-2004, 06:42 PM
#53
Simple enough..
If you need an independant, close dynojet I am up in knoxville and we can see what happens here, I have no financial interest at all no matter what it dynos, except for my own curiousity. You can look at all the settings before and after your pulls if you wish. I dont think its possible to get 400/400 on a stock engine but I'm willing to see it for myself and here is your chance to shut all the disbelievers up. I'm not trying to disprove anything, I think it would be a huge benefit for yourself to try it here..
If you need an independant, close dynojet I am up in knoxville and we can see what happens here, I have no financial interest at all no matter what it dynos, except for my own curiousity. You can look at all the settings before and after your pulls if you wish. I dont think its possible to get 400/400 on a stock engine but I'm willing to see it for myself and here is your chance to shut all the disbelievers up. I'm not trying to disprove anything, I think it would be a huge benefit for yourself to try it here..
04-13-2004, 06:46 PM
#54
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LOL, didn't anyone notice that the WS6 made more power than the Z06?
But on a serious note. Can it be true? Maybe.
I have no doubt in my mind that some of the late VIN number 2002 F-bodies not only came with LS6 blocks but I'd wager that some came with LS6 shortblocks. That would be worth 20-30 HP right there. LS6 cam, coated pistons, etc. No one would really ever realize this unless they raised the rev limiter and shifted the car at 6600, where the HP difference would make itself known with lower ETs and more MPH. Things like that can happen on the assembly line. They have to get the cars out. If you don't belive me, well then take a look at the fire wall on some 01 and 02 cars, especially the black ones. I've seen several that didn't have any paint in that area, just the greenish colored primer. They didn't bother taking the time to paint it because they had to move the car on down the line.
Another thing no one touched on. If the cam was retarded a few degrees it would work better with the LSX intake. I'd like to know where the HP and TQ peaks are. That might shed some light on this.
Another trick is running thin weight oil and only 2-3 quarts. It won't hurt anything on a dyno pull. Because the car is tied down and the suspension isn't moving, the oil won't slosh around and the pickup will still be covered by the oil in the pan. But it would cut windage down to almost zero.
Add some 2.73 or 3.23 gears to the equation and you get a little more. Or like someone stated, dyno in 3rd gear.
But on a serious note. Can it be true? Maybe.
I have no doubt in my mind that some of the late VIN number 2002 F-bodies not only came with LS6 blocks but I'd wager that some came with LS6 shortblocks. That would be worth 20-30 HP right there. LS6 cam, coated pistons, etc. No one would really ever realize this unless they raised the rev limiter and shifted the car at 6600, where the HP difference would make itself known with lower ETs and more MPH. Things like that can happen on the assembly line. They have to get the cars out. If you don't belive me, well then take a look at the fire wall on some 01 and 02 cars, especially the black ones. I've seen several that didn't have any paint in that area, just the greenish colored primer. They didn't bother taking the time to paint it because they had to move the car on down the line.
Another thing no one touched on. If the cam was retarded a few degrees it would work better with the LSX intake. I'd like to know where the HP and TQ peaks are. That might shed some light on this.
Another trick is running thin weight oil and only 2-3 quarts. It won't hurt anything on a dyno pull. Because the car is tied down and the suspension isn't moving, the oil won't slosh around and the pickup will still be covered by the oil in the pan. But it would cut windage down to almost zero.
Add some 2.73 or 3.23 gears to the equation and you get a little more. Or like someone stated, dyno in 3rd gear.
04-13-2004, 07:00 PM
#55
My black 2000 has greenish primer everywhere except the body - you would almost think it was a color change there is so much green under this car
3rd gear will dyno less, 5th gear will dyno more.
there are dozens of things you can do to eek out a little more power on the dyno, all of which are useless on the track or street so why bother. To me a dyno is a tool for getting the a/f and timing right without getting any tickets and trying new things.
Either way 400/400 is a bit much IMO but I wont say impossible given the right alignment of the planets and everything being perfect but I just cant see it..
3rd gear will dyno less, 5th gear will dyno more.
there are dozens of things you can do to eek out a little more power on the dyno, all of which are useless on the track or street so why bother. To me a dyno is a tool for getting the a/f and timing right without getting any tickets and trying new things.
Either way 400/400 is a bit much IMO but I wont say impossible given the right alignment of the planets and everything being perfect but I just cant see it..
04-13-2004, 07:00 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by kp
Simple enough..
If you need an independant, close dynojet I am up in knoxville and we can see what happens here, I have no financial interest at all no matter what it dynos, except for my own curiousity. You can look at all the settings before and after your pulls if you wish. I dont think its possible to get 400/400 on a stock engine but I'm willing to see it for myself and here is your chance to shut all the disbelievers up. I'm not trying to disprove anything, I think it would be a huge benefit for yourself to try it here..
If you need an independant, close dynojet I am up in knoxville and we can see what happens here, I have no financial interest at all no matter what it dynos, except for my own curiousity. You can look at all the settings before and after your pulls if you wish. I dont think its possible to get 400/400 on a stock engine but I'm willing to see it for myself and here is your chance to shut all the disbelievers up. I'm not trying to disprove anything, I think it would be a huge benefit for yourself to try it here..
04-13-2004, 08:20 PM
#57
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SpinDoctor et al:
Why does your website not even mention what the X package consists of???
Only stating "The X package consists of a combination of components that work 
in harmony together with custom tuning..." doesn't cut it, unless your just writing, and not planning to sell anything.
The fact that you have let this go on this long is
!!
peace
Why does your website not even mention what the X package consists of???
Only stating "The X package consists of a combination of components that work in harmony together with custom tuning..." doesn't cut it, unless your just writing, and not planning to sell anything. The fact that you have let this go on this long is
!!peace
04-13-2004, 11:11 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by blk~2000~Z28
So amazingly you ran a "Record" dyno w/o filming it? Go do it again and this time film it!
Hey guess what I caught the largest fish in the world yesterday. No its the truth, sadly it jumped off my 80' ft yaucht right before she sank so I can't proove it.
Hey guess what I caught the largest fish in the world yesterday. No its the truth, sadly it jumped off my 80' ft yaucht right before she sank so I can't proove it.
It happened during a Dyno Day. There were several people there as witness and it was captured on film. Why do think it wasn't filmed?
04-13-2004, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Damian
Spindoctor, you're obviously not very knowledgable with the internal characteristics of an LS1 motor. It's NOT physically possible to get 100% STOCK internals to flow that much air. When this argument refers to STOCK I assume you're referring to a stock LS1 cam, and completely untouched stock 5.7L LS1 heads. If so, it's not possible.
There's people on here including myself that have been in this game since the LS1's came out in early 98. I spent 3 1/2 yrs squeezing every bit of juice I could out of my old motor and I can tell you on the net or to your face with 100 bucks in my hand, there is no way on this planet you're going to make 400/400 on stock internals. The physical characteristics of the STOCK 5.7L motor will not allow it.
There's people on here including myself that have been in this game since the LS1's came out in early 98. I spent 3 1/2 yrs squeezing every bit of juice I could out of my old motor and I can tell you on the net or to your face with 100 bucks in my hand, there is no way on this planet you're going to make 400/400 on stock internals. The physical characteristics of the STOCK 5.7L motor will not allow it.
You sound pretty confident, how would you like a large pile of cash? Thats what you will get if you are right. If you are wrong I will get it. I suggest you open your mind if you don't want to lose alot of cash.
PS. 100 bucks won't touch it.
04-13-2004, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Colonel
"I am not trying to fool you or anyone else. I am stating a fact. I have spoken to you at Steele and I respect you. 359 rwhp is incredible with an I.S. auto. I know 400/400 is unbelieveable, I could hardly believe it myself.
The fact is... I DID IT!"
Ok, let me see if I can find a way to believe it.
What are the head casting numbers?
What rearend gearing?
What wheels and tires?
No belt you said?
Did you buy this car new? If used, how do you know it was BONE stock?
What fuel was used?
Any plans to dyno it on a different dynojet?
The fact is... I DID IT!"
Ok, let me see if I can find a way to believe it.
What are the head casting numbers?
What rearend gearing?
What wheels and tires?
No belt you said?
Did you buy this car new? If used, how do you know it was BONE stock?
What fuel was used?
Any plans to dyno it on a different dynojet?
Stock 3.42
Stock WS6
The belt was on all accys
Car was bought new
BP 93
If it is convenient