Simple yet Strong. 550/500 418"/243/Fast 102
#21
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I can't believe these power figures are that unreliable...yet so many educated, experienced folks participate in the dyno section.
In my case I was pointing out my TEA CNC's Trickflows are clearly being out powered & out torqued by worked stock castings.
#23
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Your attributing everything to the heads. I'm sure your cam is different than the OP's cam. Do you have the exact same intake setup, do you have the exact same valve-train setup, is your exhaust setup exactly the same as the OP's, do you have the exact same rear-end as the OP, is your gear ratio the same, are you running the exact same size wheel/tire, did the same person tune both cars, etc. Do you see what I'm saying? Unless EVERYTHING else is equal, you can't make a bold statement like that. It may not be your heads that are limiting your setup. It could be a wide variety of things. Too many times people only thing in terms of the heads or cam as to why the setup didn't do what I expected it to do. A lot of the time it comes down to the small things. From my many years of being on here and looking at the setups that make killer numbers on the dyno and lay down fast as **** ET's on the strip, all of them have one thing in commons. They all have well thought out builds. Not just some high end heads and a big *** cam, but all the little things like a lightweight valve train setup, a correct matched intake setup, a great headers/exhaust combo, and spot on tuning.
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Your attributing everything to the heads. I'm sure your cam is different than the OP's cam. Do you have the exact same intake setup, do you have the exact same valve-train setup, is your exhaust setup exactly the same as the OP's, do you have the exact same rear-end as the OP, is your gear ratio the same, are you running the exact same size wheel/tire, did the same person tune both cars, etc. Do you see what I'm saying? Unless EVERYTHING else is equal, you can't make a bold statement like that. It may not be your heads that are limiting your setup. It could be a wide variety of things. Too many times people only thing in terms of the heads or cam as to why the setup didn't do what I expected it to do. A lot of the time it comes down to the small things. From my many years of being on here and looking at the setups that make killer numbers on the dyno and lay down fast as **** ET's on the strip, all of them have one thing in commons. They all have well thought out builds. Not just some high end heads and a big *** cam, but all the little things like a lightweight valve train setup, a correct matched intake setup, a great headers/exhaust combo, and spot on tuning.
I already stated this car has a "substantially larger" cam in my original posting...mine is a custom grind 239/246...not some random donkey stick.
This combo has a stock 102 vs my 92 with lightly ported runners & throated to 95mm. Not a BIG difference in power here...most vendore I have talked to think I could be leaving 10 rwhp behind compared to a 102.
This combo has a potentially better (thicker) push rod setup.
Both combos are within half a point on SCR.
Both have 1 3/4" headers. Mine makes less power & torque through the exhaust, and open headers.
The guy who set the fuel & timing for a WOT pull shouldn't make that big of a difference either, but for what it's worth my tuner is highly reputable.
We can split hairs, but the fact is this combo makes more power & more torque everywhere. Mine has high dollar aftermarket castings, and his ported stockers are beating me up.
Interesting fact: My last combo (404) was making more power with Partiot ported 243's, less compression, and a bit larger cam...all other supporting mods are the same. Something is wrong with this...most every knowledgable vendor who has looked at my car, or I've discussed my combo with seem to think the heads are to blame.
Last edited by 74u; 11-04-2014 at 10:47 AM.
#26
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Well, this idea is makes more sense than your last (it was the dyno's fault originally). But you've made some assumptions that need clearing up.
I already stated this car has a "substantially larger" cam in my original posting...mine is a custom grind 239/246...not some random donkey stick.
This combo has a stock 102 vs my 92 with lightly ported runners & throated to 95mm. Not a BIG difference in power here...most vendore I have talked to think I could be leaving 10 rwhp behind compared to a 102.
This combo has a potentially better (thicker) push rod setup.
Both combos are within half a point on SCR.
Both have 1 3/4" headers. Mine makes less power & torque through the exhaust, and open headers.
We can split hairs, but the fact is this combo make more power & more torque everywhere. Mine has high dollar aftermarket castings, and his ported stockers are beating me up.
Interesting fact: My last combo (404) was making more power with Partiot ported 243's, less compression, and a bit larger cam.
I already stated this car has a "substantially larger" cam in my original posting...mine is a custom grind 239/246...not some random donkey stick.
This combo has a stock 102 vs my 92 with lightly ported runners & throated to 95mm. Not a BIG difference in power here...most vendore I have talked to think I could be leaving 10 rwhp behind compared to a 102.
This combo has a potentially better (thicker) push rod setup.
Both combos are within half a point on SCR.
Both have 1 3/4" headers. Mine makes less power & torque through the exhaust, and open headers.
We can split hairs, but the fact is this combo make more power & more torque everywhere. Mine has high dollar aftermarket castings, and his ported stockers are beating me up.
Interesting fact: My last combo (404) was making more power with Partiot ported 243's, less compression, and a bit larger cam.
#27
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I still think your car and the OP's car being dyno'd on different dyno's is a big factor. As others have posted, there can be a variance of up to 40 HP difference between dyno's. In this case, maybe not 40 HP difference, but it could be substantial. If both you and the OP can provide information from some track runs, that would be a far better tool for comparing power. I'd venture to say that your trap speed and the OP's trap speed won't be that much different.
Both have m6 w/4.10's - I'm going to bet he is on a larger tire - mine are 275/40/17's.
My car weighs 3720 with me in the driver's seat and went 92mph in the 1/8th mile on the stock size street radials. Less than perfect traction but there isn't much left MPH wise even on a perfect run. This is a couple MPH slower than my 404 w/Patriot 243's.
I hate to waste money beating a dead horse but it would be interesting to dyno at Corvette World since I'm local.
#28
Nice. I was actually wondering what the runner cc's were. I am guessing they are in the 240's with being able to support 418 cubes and 550rw. It may have been listed but what size valves were used? Is that a 243 head record?
I have taken what you have taught me and designed what I think is the perfect cam for my cts-v. I am going to pull the heads and see if I can beat my old flow numbers. I will run the specs by you later.
I have taken what you have taught me and designed what I think is the perfect cam for my cts-v. I am going to pull the heads and see if I can beat my old flow numbers. I will run the specs by you later.
Let me know how the V does!
My cost on the parts, you cover shipping. Let's see if we can't get some more power out of that thing.
Got it!
I'm not sure if you posted in it or saw it, but it definitely didn't make the torque or HP anyone expected.
He is in a vette, I'm in a 4th gen so it would be hard to compare traps I think.
Both have m6 w/4.10's - I'm going to bet he is on a larger tire - mine are 275/40/17's.
My car weighs 3720 with me in the driver's seat and went 92mph in the 1/8th mile on the stock size street radials. Less than perfect traction but there isn't much left MPH wise even on a perfect run. This is a couple MPH slower than my 404 w/Patriot 243's.
I hate to waste money beating a dead horse but it would be interesting to dyno at Corvette World since I'm local.
Both have m6 w/4.10's - I'm going to bet he is on a larger tire - mine are 275/40/17's.
My car weighs 3720 with me in the driver's seat and went 92mph in the 1/8th mile on the stock size street radials. Less than perfect traction but there isn't much left MPH wise even on a perfect run. This is a couple MPH slower than my 404 w/Patriot 243's.
I hate to waste money beating a dead horse but it would be interesting to dyno at Corvette World since I'm local.
#30
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I hate you had the issues you have had with your combination. I know there is something holding it back. Did you ever feel like maybe taking me up on my exhaust offer? It still stands 100%.
My cost on the parts, you cover shipping. Let's see if we can't get some more power out of that thing.
My cost on the parts, you cover shipping. Let's see if we can't get some more power out of that thing.
I really appreciate the offer and would have taken you up on it months ago but I just haven't had any significant money to throw at it. While it missed the mark from a performance standpoint - the car has been my daily driver since completed and it runs good/reliable...so I'm stuck waiting.
I'm probably looking at tax refund time before I have enough extra cash to make a play.
With that in mind - everything sitting on top of the shortblock is on the table. Full exhaust upgrade is a given, but maybe some different heads? Worked 243's, or...??, maybe a 102 upgrade just to rule it out? My goal still is100mph in the eighth/125mph in the quarter on my street rubber. I just don't think I'm going to get there on an exhaust upgrade alone.
Also looking at gearing that may be more suited to my street tire/high MPH goal.
#31
I really appreciate the offer and would have taken you up on it months ago but I just haven't had any significant money to throw at it. While it missed the mark from a performance standpoint - the car has been my daily driver since completed and it runs good/reliable...so I'm stuck waiting.
I'm probably looking at tax refund time before I have enough extra cash to make a play.
With that in mind - everything sitting on top of the shortblock is on the table. Full exhaust upgrade is a given, but maybe some different heads? Worked 243's, or...??, maybe a 102 upgrade just to rule it out? My goal still is100mph in the eighth/125mph in the quarter on my street rubber. I just don't think I'm going to get there on an exhaust upgrade alone.
Also looking at gearing that may be more suited to my street tire/high MPH goal.
I'm probably looking at tax refund time before I have enough extra cash to make a play.
With that in mind - everything sitting on top of the shortblock is on the table. Full exhaust upgrade is a given, but maybe some different heads? Worked 243's, or...??, maybe a 102 upgrade just to rule it out? My goal still is100mph in the eighth/125mph in the quarter on my street rubber. I just don't think I'm going to get there on an exhaust upgrade alone.
Also looking at gearing that may be more suited to my street tire/high MPH goal.
Before completely giving up on your heads and throwing in the towel, if you feel like it I'd highly recommend sending them to someone like Chris@Frankenstein Racing Heads for an evaluation.
He could quite possibly be able to find the proverbial needle in the haystack in regards to your power loss issues.
#32
TECH Veteran
What do yall think it will make at the flywheel?
#39
TECH Enthusiast
martin.is there a way we could get the same power without 660 lift cam.i have tea stage 2 heads and the springs are only 650 lift,now if i have to change springs i would but the pac 1207x are 700 lift how would these springs do with alot of milage.i see someone put it should be 640hp@fly wheel thats really stout. martin what u think
Last edited by sbf; 11-09-2014 at 09:28 AM.