i want to totally and utterly destroy this dsm
12-02-2008, 07:35 PM
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i want to totally and utterly destroy this dsm there is a fvckin bastard always talking **** about how dsm's rule the street and nothing is as fast as a dsm, now i have owned 5 dsm's at one time or another, i know they can be quick but i gave up on them because they also always break. and to prove my point his hasn't run for more than a week in the last year or so, but he's always telling me that when he gets his running the first thing he;s gonna do is whup my camaro. now he does have a monster holset something or other turbo, off like a diesel bus, and a 4g64 block, so its a stroked engine, 2.4 liters. and its the awd talon. but i dont care, my car has broken into high 11's spinning through three gears, and i have gotten the ok from the wife to put this ******* in his place. there's alot more to the story that i dont have time to go into, but his family has given mine alot of greif and undue stress over the past few years. so I'm going all out, but with careful research, full suspension because i want to launch the fvck out on him, screw awd, I'll teach him a lesson on how a properly set up rwd can run. i already have a dry kit, but i need a nice fuel pump and if needed a second stage. but i don't think I'll need. anyways chime in guys, i do know the potential of those cars like I've said but i am not gonna leave anything to chance, if he ever gets his shitbox running
12-02-2008, 11:02 PM
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well i have been reading all the horror stories about the stock 10 bolt, and figure i better start saving for that, i am most likely all ready living on borrowed time with that. if i decide to run some DR's i know its gonna explode, right now i just spin like hell. i have some time till he gets his shitty car together, right now it has a bare block and no tranny. damn do i ever wanna get a moser 9 inche rear with 4.10's and DR's and spay his *** out of the hole.
12-03-2008, 10:40 AM
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OH man........do I hope you put this F'r in his place.
Oh...and
@ 'got the ok from the wife'. I'm sorry, that's just too funny. nothing negative intended....just funny.
Oh...and
@ 'got the ok from the wife'. I'm sorry, that's just too funny. nothing negative intended....just funny.
12-03-2008, 08:58 PM
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yeah well in my household if she aint happy NOOOO ONE's happy. but she really wants me to slam this *** clown. so i got my dry kit half installed tonight, and have found the exact rear i want, the moser 9 inch with 4.11 gears, and i already ordered a set of DR's but the problem is i want to keep my stock wheels for now till i can get some vette wheels so i could only go 255-50, do you think that will be enough tire to hook with?
12-05-2008, 12:22 AM
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yeah well in my household if she aint happy NOOOO ONE's happy. but she really wants me to slam this *** clown. so i got my dry kit half installed tonight, and have found the exact rear i want, the moser 9 inch with 4.11 gears, and i already ordered a set of DR's but the problem is i want to keep my stock wheels for now till i can get some vette wheels so i could only go 255-50, do you think that will be enough tire to hook with?
12-05-2008, 07:12 PM
#7
Well you can look at my sig. Dsms and v8s thats my two loves. Dsms do break. But so do stock 10 bolts, stock f body clutches, ta headlight motors, f body wind motors,..
I find my talons to be pretty reliable if well maintained and not abused. Most of the older ones do have high mileage and have had kids driving the crap out of them.
That said you should know about dsms and their potential. AWD dsm are almost unbeatable off the lights or off the line on street tires. My 2.4 big turbo 97 can easily do 1.6 on firestone fuzion street tires. Even better if use the two step and anitlag.
So your only hope to narrow the gap is tires. Nittos are fine and work quite well with a proper little burnout. They won't break the stock 10 bolt normally. They haven't broke mine when I had headers and cam and bolt ons and actually my 10 bolt so far is still alive with current combo but only been driving it with new combo a few weeks and no traction on cold streets and its away for winter now.
So get some nitto drag radials. Are you six speed or auto..if auto then you could easily run et street radials and not break the 10 bolt that quick. Guys have gone 10s on the factory 10 bolts with auto. Need a decent stall then of course.
Now still bet you won't get much better than a 1.9 on nittos or et streets maybe maybe a 1.8. So if he gets a 1.6 you will be behind right away. But if his turbo is huge even on a 2.4 there will be some lag unless he has a two step or antilag like me or is auto ?
Assuming he is stick car. So you should make up a bit of that ground from the launch and then at 4000 or 4500 he will spool up his big snail and you will likely be toast.
3100 pounds of dsm and likely you are at a 500 or more weight disadvantage and have maybe 425 to 450 engine hp...? He should have a good 500 engine hp if he is any kind of tuner with a 2.4 and a big turbo. I could put out 650 hp with my FP3065 on my 2.4 but that would be at max boost and on the street normally run about 550 engine hp.
Still pretty potent in a 3100 pound package.
So expect the dsm to win by maybe 5 to 10 carlengths. Unless he misses a shift, shortshifts, hits redline, or maybe his clutch gives up the ghost if he didn't put a good one in. Or maybe he cant tune for crap.
So how do you win. You need full meal deal likely. drag type tires like said the nittos or et street radials. A stall if auto. You of course can also miss shift, hit redline or short shift if you are stick. And to really have a good chance you need your own fi with nitrous being the cheapest . A 125 to maybe 150 shot should make it close.
Maybe even let you win. But on street tires my money is on that dsm.
My 97 was a decent close race to buddies 2001z28 when he had longtubes and few other little bolt ons. When I was breaking it in at 10psi. Course off the line was no contest. Him on street tires. After I dialed it up to 20 or so it was not close anymore. He had no chance and it was embarrassing for him.
Now my 99 with its new combo of course can beat my 97 talon even likely at max boost but off the line still need drag tires even more now on the 99.
so another option there are some used turbo kits in the for sale section..one sts and one or two single kits. Even a twin aps kit like mine for sale on western section of ls1.com
Then you will have him shaking in fear. You know yourself that its not that easy to go much past 600 engine hp in a dsm. At that level you need axles, 3000 buck trans, mabye twin disc clutch for 1200 bucks, huge fuel system.... Pretty easy to get our v8 ls1s to 500 rwhp or 600 engine type of thing with your basic turbo kit or some spray.
I find my talons to be pretty reliable if well maintained and not abused. Most of the older ones do have high mileage and have had kids driving the crap out of them.
That said you should know about dsms and their potential. AWD dsm are almost unbeatable off the lights or off the line on street tires. My 2.4 big turbo 97 can easily do 1.6 on firestone fuzion street tires. Even better if use the two step and anitlag.
So your only hope to narrow the gap is tires. Nittos are fine and work quite well with a proper little burnout. They won't break the stock 10 bolt normally. They haven't broke mine when I had headers and cam and bolt ons and actually my 10 bolt so far is still alive with current combo but only been driving it with new combo a few weeks and no traction on cold streets and its away for winter now.
So get some nitto drag radials. Are you six speed or auto..if auto then you could easily run et street radials and not break the 10 bolt that quick. Guys have gone 10s on the factory 10 bolts with auto. Need a decent stall then of course.
Now still bet you won't get much better than a 1.9 on nittos or et streets maybe maybe a 1.8. So if he gets a 1.6 you will be behind right away. But if his turbo is huge even on a 2.4 there will be some lag unless he has a two step or antilag like me or is auto ?
Assuming he is stick car. So you should make up a bit of that ground from the launch and then at 4000 or 4500 he will spool up his big snail and you will likely be toast.
3100 pounds of dsm and likely you are at a 500 or more weight disadvantage and have maybe 425 to 450 engine hp...? He should have a good 500 engine hp if he is any kind of tuner with a 2.4 and a big turbo. I could put out 650 hp with my FP3065 on my 2.4 but that would be at max boost and on the street normally run about 550 engine hp.
Still pretty potent in a 3100 pound package.
So expect the dsm to win by maybe 5 to 10 carlengths. Unless he misses a shift, shortshifts, hits redline, or maybe his clutch gives up the ghost if he didn't put a good one in. Or maybe he cant tune for crap.
So how do you win. You need full meal deal likely. drag type tires like said the nittos or et street radials. A stall if auto. You of course can also miss shift, hit redline or short shift if you are stick. And to really have a good chance you need your own fi with nitrous being the cheapest . A 125 to maybe 150 shot should make it close.
Maybe even let you win. But on street tires my money is on that dsm.
My 97 was a decent close race to buddies 2001z28 when he had longtubes and few other little bolt ons. When I was breaking it in at 10psi. Course off the line was no contest. Him on street tires. After I dialed it up to 20 or so it was not close anymore. He had no chance and it was embarrassing for him.
Now my 99 with its new combo of course can beat my 97 talon even likely at max boost but off the line still need drag tires even more now on the 99.
so another option there are some used turbo kits in the for sale section..one sts and one or two single kits. Even a twin aps kit like mine for sale on western section of ls1.com
Then you will have him shaking in fear. You know yourself that its not that easy to go much past 600 engine hp in a dsm. At that level you need axles, 3000 buck trans, mabye twin disc clutch for 1200 bucks, huge fuel system.... Pretty easy to get our v8 ls1s to 500 rwhp or 600 engine type of thing with your basic turbo kit or some spray.
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12-05-2008, 07:21 PM
#8
Sorry should read more closely. You have dry kit. Great get a Racetronix pump kit,they are cheap do the fuel door mod, and its dry so you will need some bigger injectors and colder plugs.window switch too.bottle warmer optional. Maybe you already have that stuff??
And you are a stick. Stock clutch might not handle much more spray at higher levels like 150 that you might need to beat him. So you already should be low 500 ish maybe on that 75shot. Excellent. So yeah get some nittos. et streets only with new rear end. Should be a good race then and don't worry so much about the rear end. Buddy with m6 has been hitting it hard on nittos for last several years at local track. He didn't run et streets though. With your setup on et street radials yeh that could be risky. But nittos work great I have run them for years now. . And have beaten some awd vehicles with them on my cars. My 96z roasted repeasted an awd blazer like three times off the lights with ntitos. He was amazed! They work great. Decent mileage out of them too.
And you are a stick. Stock clutch might not handle much more spray at higher levels like 150 that you might need to beat him. So you already should be low 500 ish maybe on that 75shot. Excellent. So yeah get some nittos. et streets only with new rear end. Should be a good race then and don't worry so much about the rear end. Buddy with m6 has been hitting it hard on nittos for last several years at local track. He didn't run et streets though. With your setup on et street radials yeh that could be risky. But nittos work great I have run them for years now. . And have beaten some awd vehicles with them on my cars. My 96z roasted repeasted an awd blazer like three times off the lights with ntitos. He was amazed! They work great. Decent mileage out of them too.
12-05-2008, 09:46 PM
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awesome, damn am i glad someone with some hands on experience spoke up, i have played with quite a few dsms, actually the 90GST he drives right now was mine. i have a 97 TSI AWD that i was running a 18g on, like 20psi, with a 6bolt swap. but i sold it the boy tore it up and i bought it back for 800 bucks. but now this guy, who used to be a very close friend, now just an ******* i want to teach a lesson, has a 91 talon AWD that like i said, is building from the ground up but he is on limited funds. I'm not trying to be a *** but i have substantially more funding than he does. my first plan is to get the 97 talon back together, sell it, and use the money for a moser 9" rear with some 3.73 gears. i have been looking for some tires. but was worried if i actually got any traction i would destroy the rear, but its nice to hear that some do stay together for awhile.
i will look into the turbo kits, i love forced induction, being a former dsm lover, i actually still love the cars but want to try my hand at something else.
as for tuning this guy hasnt kept his car together for more than a week in ...well ever. i sold it to him and he turned the boost up and blew the HG. then he fixed it put an 18g on it, blew the HG. fixed it put a 60-1 on it blew the HG. so even with his holset h1c or something like that, i never got into the holset line, i stayed with mitsu turbo's, he will most likely pop a HG or something before we even finish the race.
i will look into the turbo kits, i love forced induction, being a former dsm lover, i actually still love the cars but want to try my hand at something else.
as for tuning this guy hasnt kept his car together for more than a week in ...well ever. i sold it to him and he turned the boost up and blew the HG. then he fixed it put an 18g on it, blew the HG. fixed it put a 60-1 on it blew the HG. so even with his holset h1c or something like that, i never got into the holset line, i stayed with mitsu turbo's, he will most likely pop a HG or something before we even finish the race.
Last edited by the jester 812; 12-05-2008 at 09:51 PM.
12-05-2008, 10:55 PM
#10
My 97 is a serious build. I am an old guy so have the resources to do one up properly. Went thru pretty much the entire car it was minty low mileage female owned. Did a fully forged up 2.4 with crower rods, wiseco pistons, arp head studs. Done up head ,crower 280s. dsmlink. supra tt pump , 950s. apexi gt downpipe and catback. Forced Performance FP3065, FP exhaust manifold, jm fab intake.
I ran it 5000 miles then seems the HD 4000 clutch blew apart.I parked it and went on to my other projects for last year or so. Had lots of dsms..Like five or more .I sometimes buy they cheap and fix and sell them but they can be a challenge sometimes for sure! Stupid interference engines! LOL They do have kevlar belts but only for the 2.0s not the 2.4s.
Yeah a rear end some nittos or et street radials and bit higher shot should give this guy a good run. But from what you say you could take him now but not off the line. He might blow up in the middle of the race like you said blow a head gasket. Just lie a bit tell him you are running a 200 shot or something nuts. Does he know you have spray.?
Tell him he better run at max boost to have a chance..So he can turn that holeset up ot 40psi and take out another head gasket or bunch of other parts.
I seriously think the race should be close with your 75shot even. I doubt see him having more than 500 hp and don't sound like he has a clue about tuning his car or he wouldn't be going thru all those headgaskets. Its funny as last couple dsms I sold to young guys one guy just took out headgasket and told him not to run it past 15psi stock and run premium only but they maybe lose a race and then they crank it up..stupid..
Last guy did similar thing on my 92 that sold him. Ran regular , put on a full 3 inch no cat and overboosted it way high.He took out engine not head gasket.
Not a car for idiots!
Race him don't worry its just a race. Unless you do it for 100 bucks. Those talons remember are not that easy to shift quickly not exactly great 1/4 mile transmissions.
And you said the guy is on a bit of shoestring budget? Is this engine forged? Is the clutch upgraded? What does he tune it with..? Can he actually drive it..does he have two step ,antilag. he might choke the launch ..might shift like crap. Does hie know to take it up near redline ,will he powershift to keep it spooled...lots of stuff there.
I would have bet on the dsm but your spray might win the day. Even if you blow the launch. Also remember the simple stuff. No passengers in your car maybe he will have some. Take out spare tire, jack, how much gas can depend on tire. On et with new rear end you could run quarter tank. On street tires might have to run more to help traction.
Just a set of nittos for now would really even things up.
I ran it 5000 miles then seems the HD 4000 clutch blew apart.I parked it and went on to my other projects for last year or so. Had lots of dsms..Like five or more .I sometimes buy they cheap and fix and sell them but they can be a challenge sometimes for sure! Stupid interference engines! LOL They do have kevlar belts but only for the 2.0s not the 2.4s.
Yeah a rear end some nittos or et street radials and bit higher shot should give this guy a good run. But from what you say you could take him now but not off the line. He might blow up in the middle of the race like you said blow a head gasket. Just lie a bit tell him you are running a 200 shot or something nuts. Does he know you have spray.?
Tell him he better run at max boost to have a chance..So he can turn that holeset up ot 40psi and take out another head gasket or bunch of other parts.
I seriously think the race should be close with your 75shot even. I doubt see him having more than 500 hp and don't sound like he has a clue about tuning his car or he wouldn't be going thru all those headgaskets. Its funny as last couple dsms I sold to young guys one guy just took out headgasket and told him not to run it past 15psi stock and run premium only but they maybe lose a race and then they crank it up..stupid..
Last guy did similar thing on my 92 that sold him. Ran regular , put on a full 3 inch no cat and overboosted it way high.He took out engine not head gasket.
Not a car for idiots!
Race him don't worry its just a race. Unless you do it for 100 bucks. Those talons remember are not that easy to shift quickly not exactly great 1/4 mile transmissions.
And you said the guy is on a bit of shoestring budget? Is this engine forged? Is the clutch upgraded? What does he tune it with..? Can he actually drive it..does he have two step ,antilag. he might choke the launch ..might shift like crap. Does hie know to take it up near redline ,will he powershift to keep it spooled...lots of stuff there.
I would have bet on the dsm but your spray might win the day. Even if you blow the launch. Also remember the simple stuff. No passengers in your car maybe he will have some. Take out spare tire, jack, how much gas can depend on tire. On et with new rear end you could run quarter tank. On street tires might have to run more to help traction.
Just a set of nittos for now would really even things up.
12-06-2008, 02:35 PM
#11
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this guy is definitely on a shoestring budget, he has gotten a few nice things over the years, he has some nice springs, and raised his rev limit. i think he runs it to 8k or so, but then his tranny hates life. and from what I've read 2.4's aren't designed to be run that high. he has dsmlink, and some huge injectors, 1000cc's i think. he wont be forged, theres no way he can afford that. he does run some kind of antilag, and a two-step. but he cant drive very good, he doesnt ever race, just a lot of **** talking, where-as i race every chance i get, which i know is not a good idea, but its in my blood. but my plan is to get a 9" rear, do like you suggested and run some et streets, and a clutch that will hold something like a 150 shot, he will get me out of the hole if he builds strong enough to drop the clutch at a high rpm, but when i start spraying i hope to come back past him. i been pitching the idea of a procharger to the wife because this guy has become a huge nuisance in some many ways, not just the whole car thing he just causes trouble all around for my family, and she wants me to beat him down too, shut him up, humble him
12-06-2008, 03:38 PM
#12
8000 should be fine on a built 2.4 . Course good valve springs are important in that. I usually run mine to 7500 but its seen 8000 occasionally. On his engine well depends what was done and some have broke cranks .I plan on going to eagle crank if every have a problem where the engine is out of the car. They make them for the 2.4 now. Just wish they would make a kevlar timing belt.
This guy has all the right stuff..injectors, dsmlink is great tuning program but don't mean he can tune with it. Course if he is not forged can easily take out pistons, bend stock rods..He sounds like he will break it for sure sooner rather than later.
I would race him and not worry about it. I think you will still win with the spray.
He is not likely to have much over 500 engine hp happening and much past that his clutch is likely to be slipping again depends which one has has.
This guy has all the right stuff..injectors, dsmlink is great tuning program but don't mean he can tune with it. Course if he is not forged can easily take out pistons, bend stock rods..He sounds like he will break it for sure sooner rather than later.
I would race him and not worry about it. I think you will still win with the spray.
He is not likely to have much over 500 engine hp happening and much past that his clutch is likely to be slipping again depends which one has has.
12-06-2008, 09:03 PM
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yeah i want to get my talon together and sell it and get my rear, some tires, and a clutch before i race him, if he ever gets his car together, and just have fun, the more i think about it the more i would rather just go to the track and get my time then slap it down on the table and say beat that. because out two cars in a street race will probably see some nasty high speeds. if i can get deep into the 11's, i don't think i will have anything to worry about, except getting kicked out
