Amen to everything you've said WS6TransAm01. I am starting to believe the ONLY way someone can be a Liberal is from being grossly misinformed from all the BS the media feeds us.

John Kerry was asked to stay home by his own Demo. candidates during the recent elections because he is an ***#ole and you would rather have him be the president.

Also, congratulations to the Rep. party for winning the next presidential elections. America will not vote in an African American (Obama) or a worman (Hilary) just yet. Nice job guys.

And I forgot to mention how all the Democrats bash Bush for sending troops over, but then they approve all the money needed to send them over. Hypocrites!

 

WS6TransAm01 I would argue that although America was intended to be a Republic that it is actually a Democracy. Although there are underlying laws that are put into place to protect the rights of the minority, thess laws are easily accessed by the majority or those in power and therefore can be changed. After all the majority elects the President who can appoint members to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court like it or not may not be able to change the constitution outright but they can interpret it in just about anyway. Making those laws to protect the rights of the minority very very flexible.

 

Them some big helicopters.. I was stationed for a while at a heliport (Katterbach) and the Chinooks would rattle the windows when they passed overhead.

 

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Lol what's interesting? He praises a guy who did nothing but sit on his *** right after the storm. A week later, after the guy is ridiculed by the entire nation for being as useless as **** on a bull, Bush finally shows him the door. Of course he also made the mistake of appointing a guy to head FEMA who had zero experience.

EDIT: And BTW I don't disagree Nagin is equally as useless as Mayor, and same goes for that woman govenor. The 3 of them together were just a disaster. I can't beleive Nagin got re-elected...

 

Ok I do have to disagree with your assessment of the Iranian hostage situation. Not that I'd defend Carter, but that rescue mission (and also his nonstop support for the fledgling Delta Force) was the best thing he ever did, and the right move. If we had invaded, those hostages were as good as dead. That mission would have gone perfectly well, had it not been for a bad-luck sandstorm, which you can't blame on Carter.

If you ever want some good military reading, allow me to suggest the book "Delta Force" by Colonel Beckwith (Delta's founder), which details the idea of Delta, its creation, and pretty much a minute by minute first hand account of the mission. Beckwith admits to not caring much for Carter (like most military personnel) but he did deeply respect him for having the ***** to sanction that mission, and for the years prior he spent pushing for Delta when the Pentagon kept trying to cut it out. Carter was also man enough to accept full blame for the mission's failure, a move which kept Delta from a near certain death after that mission.

Also as an aside, lets not forget a certain (Republican) someone's arms dealins with the Iranians in the 80s didn't exactly help our cause either...

 

The only single reason someone like Carter ordered that mission was because it was an election year and his poll numbers were way down because of the situation. And no one has any clue if it would have gone perfectly well if not for the sandstorm. It was already a goatfuck before they landed in Iran because every branch of the military was getting in on it in some way trying to get their peice of the pie. I personally think it had no chance of succeeding.

 

Alex, my aim with Bush is not primarily on the war in Iraq, nor is our only problem. My views on the war are that we should not be there. We have more important issues to deal with here at home. Social Security, The progressive loss of the "middle class" in the country, deportation of jobs overseas, and illegals in the country to name just a few. The oil in Afghanistan was a first person comments, I'm sure they have a few fields over there, not as much as the others may have but nonetheless it's still there, and that's what the soldier said to my aunt. As for CNN, their reporters only film near Baghdad and don't see the rest of the country. The soldiers I know over there do nothing all day, just patrols that have yielded nothing over the past two years. Running away no, but Rumsfeld put a plan of escape on the table, and wound up a few days later shows no hope for exit anytime soon. We have two completely seperate views on the topic, I would not want it to come between seeing each other around

 

A political argument will not make me not want to talk to you at the track, don't worry. Most of my professors are S-P's and you don't seem he stopping going to school do ya?

[/img]http://www.environmental-action.org/images/map01_1024.jpg[/img]
As you can see, Afghanistan has no oil deposits nor do they have any oil recovery infrastructure at all.

As far as the social issues to deal with at home, you can thank the S-P left for that. President Bush brought up a comprehensive plan to rescue the social security program in this country, one that would allow the individual to dictate his or her own retirement funs investments by a small fraction. However the left does not want this, the S-P's want a "Big Brother" government that "looks out for the folks" and raises the impoverished. Where as the conservative side of the government wants as little governmental enchrochment into everyday life as possible. The S-P's want as much tax revenue as they can get to keep as big of a government as they can, to look over us poor individuals who cant figure our lives out ourselves.

The shrinking middle class? Well that is the fault of the people. I don't think the government owes it to the people to hold them by the hand through out their lives, that is called Communism, is that what you want? Every person in this country has the same opportunity, regardless of gender, sexual preference, income, or ethnic background. It is up to the persons own ability to carve out a niche for themselves. My parents and I came to the US in 1990 and were only allowed to bring in $100/person, thats it. It was up to my parents ability [I was too young] to make out place in this country. The same can be done by anyone else.

As far as jobs leaving the country its simply business. If Habib can sew a pair of jeans cheaper then Bill then so be it. Its unfortunate, but that is how a capitalist economy works. Its a big part of the S-P philosophy that we live in a global economy where exporting jobs to other countries is a good thing. The left does not want American to remain independent, they want the borders to melt away and for us to live in a global society with jobs going to all corners of the world.

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2203f11597&c=1

 

Here's a fact that speaks volumes in a few words:

"The hostages were released after 444 days of captivity on January 20, 1981, the day that Ronald Reagan succeeded Carter as president."

I was processing out of the Army, getting my ETS orders and have pictures of the C-141's at Rhein-Mein that shuttled the hostages to Germany.

Carter put his drawers on the table and unfroze millions of frozen assets to the Iranians. Somehow, I believe the Iranians didn't have the intestinal fortitude to play games with President-Elect Reagan.

Not long after this the Marine Barracks were bombed spilling more American blood. It's finally time to firmly deal with these terrorists and fanatics, so we may have security and peace in the future.

 

I'm neither defending nor offending the president of this great nation that I love so dearly but umm, wasn't George H. president from like '89 - '93? Wouldn't George W. have LONG since graduated from college/grad school at that point, graduated even before '81 for that matter when his dad became Vice President? Though yes, his dad was still a national figure prior to that.
Sorry Chris

 

Well, true, but his dad has been in positions of influence for years before he became VP and then POTUS. And the family was quite well known and powerful. You don't have to be the son of a President to get in, just having a powerful family with a legacy sure helps.

Bob, BTW I don't disagree with your points, however I do think if there is one thing Carter deserves to be commended for, is sanctioning the mission AND his unending support of Delta, recognizing the importance of a clandestine anti-terror unit. And he deserves respect for taking the full blame for the failure, and not passing it off to the military. I can't say I have the same feeling that Cheney would do that, or Rumsfeld would have. They're both master finger pointers whenever something goes wrong.

Anyways in politics I'll happily voice my displeasure with either a Republican or a Democrat. And frankly I think thats the huge problem with modern politics, is no one wants to criticize "their guy". So their guy doesn't get the feedback a leader should be getting, and the only criticism comes from the opposing party, which is taken as more of an attack then a suggestion. As an engineer I tend to be rather pragmatic, and there's not much room for that in politics these days, thus I seldom bother discussing it.

 

I'm truley sad that so many people are completely mistaken on what "The Left" really wants. Even more so by the fact that people think we are better off having Bush as President. But hey he's done a great job.


Iraq


Failing to build a real international coalition prior to the Iraq invasion, forcing the US to shoulder the full cost and consequences of the war.


Approving the demobilization of the Iraqi Army in May, 2003 - bypassing the Joint Chiefs of Staff and reversing an earlier position, the President left hundreds of thousands of armed Iraqis disgruntled and unemployed, contributing significantly to the massive security problems American troops have faced during occupation.


Not equipping troops in Iraq with adequate body armor or armored HUMVEES.


Ignoring the advice Gen. Eric Shinseki regarding the need for more troops in Iraq - now Bush is belatedly adding troops, having allowed the security situation to deteriorate in exactly the way Shinseki said it would if there were not enough troops.


Ignoring plans drawn up by the Army War College and other war-planning agencies, which predicted most of the worst security and infrastructure problems America faced in the early days of the Iraq occupation.


Making a case for war which ignored intelligence that there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.


Deriding "nation-building" during the 2000 debates, then engaging American troops in one of the most explicit instances of nation building in American history.


Predicting along with others in his administration that US troops would be greeted as liberators in Iraq.


Predicting Iraq would pay for its own reconstruction.


Wildly underestimating the cost of the war.


Trusting Ahmed Chalabi, who has dismissed faulty intelligence he provided the President as necessary for getting the Americans to topple Saddam.


Disbanding the Sunni Baathist managers responsible for Iraq's water, electricity, sewer system and all the other critical parts of that country's infrastructure.


Failing to give UN weapons inspectors enough time to certify if weapons existed in Iraq.


Including discredited intelligence concerning Nigerian Yellow Cake in his 2003 State of the Union.


Announcing that "major combat operations in Iraq have ended" aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln on May 1, 2003, below a "Mission Accomplished" banner - more U.S. soldiers have died in combat since Bush's announcement than before it.


Awarding a multi-billion dollar contract to Halliburton in Iraq, which then repeatedly overcharged the government and served troops dirty food.


Refusing to cede any control of Post-invasion Iraq to the international community, meaning reconstruction has received limited aid from European allies or the U.N.


Failing to convince NATO allies why invading Iraq was important.


Having no real plan for the occupation of Iraq.


Limiting bidding on Iraq construction projects to "coalition partners," unnecessarily alienating important allies France, Germany and Russia.


Diverting $700 million into Iraq invasion planning without informing Congress.


Shutting down an Iraqi newspaper for "inciting violence" - the move, which led in short order to street fighting in Fallujah, incited more violence than the newspaper ever had.


Telling Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan about plans to go to war with Iraq before Secretary of State Colin Powell.

Counterterrorism


Allowing several members of the Bin Laden family to leave the country just days after 9/11, some of them without being questioned by the FBI.


Focusing on missile defense at the expense of counterterrorism prior to 9/11.


Thinking al Qaeda could not attack without state sponsors, and ignoring evidence of a growing threat unassociated with "rogue states" like Iraq or North Korea.


Threatening to veto the Homeland Security department - The President now concedes such a department "provides the ability for our agencies to coordinate better and to work together better than it was before."


Opposing the creation of the September 11th commission, which the President now expects "to contain important recommendations for preventing future attacks."


Denying documents to the 9/11 commission, only relenting after the commissioners threatened a subpoena.


Failing to pay more attention to an August 6, 2001 PDB entitled "Bin laden Determined to Attack in U.S."


Repeatedly ignoring warnings of terrorists planning to use aircraft before 9/11.


Appointing the ultra-secretive Henry Kissinger to head the 9/11 commission - Kissinger stepped down weeks later due to conflicts of interest.


Asking for testimony before the 9/11 commission be limited to one hour, a position from which the president later backtracked.


Not allowing national Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice to testify before the 9/11 commission - Bush changed his mind as pressure mounted.


Cutting an FBI request for counterterrorism funds by two-thirds after 9/11.


Telling Americans there was a link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda.


Failing to adequately secure the nation's nuclear weapons labs.


Not feeling a sense of urgency about terrorism or al Qaeda before 9/11.

Afghanistan


Reducing resources and troop levels in Afghanistan and out before it was fully secure.


Not providing security in Afghanistan outside of Kabul, leaving nearly 80% of the Afghan population unprotected in areas controlled by Feudal warlords and local militias.


Committing inadequate resources for the reconstruction of Afghanistan.


Counting too heavily on locally trained troops to fill the void in Afghanistan once U.S. forces were relocated to Iraq.


Not committing US ground troops to the capture of Osama Bin Laden, when he was cornered in the Tora Bora region of Afghanistan in November, 2001.


Allowing opium production to resume on a massive scale after the ouster of the Taliban.

Weapons of Mass Destruction


Opposing an independent inquiry into the intelligence failures surrounding WMD - later, upon signing off on just such a commission, Bush claimed he was "determined to make sure that American intelligence is as accurate as possible for every challenge in the future."


Saying: "We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories."


Trusting intelligence gathered by Vice President Cheney's and Secretary Rumsfeld's "Office of Special Plans."


Spending $6.5 billion on nuclear weapons this year to develop new nuclear weapons this year - 50% more in real dollars than the average during the cold war - while shortchanging the troops on body armor.

Foreign Policy


Ignoring the importance of the Middle East peace process, which has deteriorated with little oversight or strategy evident in the region.


Siding with China in February, 2004 against a democratic referenda proposed by Taiwan, a notable shift from an earlier pledge to stand with "oppressed peoples until the day of their freedom finally arrives."


Undermining the War on Terrorism by preemptively invading Iraq.


Failing to develop a specific plan for dealing with North Korea.


Abandoning the United States' traditional role as an evenhanded negotiator in the Middle East peace process.

 

Economic


Signing a report endorsing outsourcing with thousands of American workers having their jobs shipped overseas.


Instituting steel tariffs deemed illegal by the World Trade Organization - Bush repealed them 20-months later when the European Union pledged to impose retaliatory sanctions on up to $2.2 billion in exports from the United States.


Promoting economic policies that failed to create new jobs.


Promoting economic policies that failed to help small businesses


Pledging a "jobs and growth" package would create 1,836,000 new jobs by the end of 2003 and 5.5 million new jobs by 2004-so far the president has fallen 1,615,000 jobs short of the mark.


Running up a foreign deficit of "such record-breaking proportions that it threatens the financial stability of the global economy."


Issuing inaccurate budget forecasts accompanying proposals to reduce the deficit, omitting the continued costs of Iraq, Afghanistan and elements of Homeland Security.


Claiming his 2003 tax cut would give 23 million small business owners an average tax cut of $2,042 when "nearly four out of every five tax filers (79%) with small business income would receive less" than that amount.


Passing tax cuts for the wealthy while falsely claiming "people in the 10 percent bracket" were benefiting most."


Passing successive tax cuts largely responsible for turning a projected surplus of $5 trillion into a projected deficit of $4.3 trillion.


Moving to strip millions of overtime pay.


Not enforcing corporate tax laws.


Backing down from a plan to make CEOs more accountable when "the corporate crowd" protested.


Not lobbying oil cartels to change their mind about cutting oil production.


Passing tax cuts weighted heavily to help the wealthy.


Moving to allow greater media consolidation.


Nominating a notorious proponent of outsourcing, Anthony F. Raimondo, to be the new manufacturing Czar-Raimondo withdrew his name days later amidst a flurry of harsh criticism.


Ignoring calls to extend unemployment benefits with long-term unemployment reaching a twenty-year high


Threatening to veto pension legislation that would give companies much needed temporary relief.

Education


Under-funding No Child Left Behind


Breaking his campaign pledge to increase the size of Pell grants.


Signing off on an FY 2005 budget proposing the smallest increase in education funding in nine years.


Under-funding the Title I Program, specifically targeted for disadvantaged kids, by $7.2 billion.


Freezing Teacher Quality State Grants, cutting off training opportunities for about 30,000 teachers, and leaving 92,000 less teachers trained than the president called for in his own No Child Left Behind bill.


Freezing funding for English language training programs.


Freezing funding for after school programs, potentially eliminating 50,000 children from after-school programs.

Health


Not leveling with Americans about the cost of Medicare - the president told Congress his new Medicare bill would cost $400 billion over ten years despite conclusions by his own analysts the bill would cost upwards of $500 billion over that period.


Silencing Medicare actuary Richard Foster when his estimates for the Administration's Medicare bill were too high.


Letting business associate David Halbert, who owns a company which stands to make millions from new discount drug cards, craft key elements of the new Medicare bill.


Under-funding health care for troops and veterans.


Allowing loopholes to persist in Mad-Cow regulations.


Relaxing food labeling restrictions on health claims.


Falsely claiming the restrictions on stem cell research would not hamper medical progress.


Reducing action against improper drug advertising by 80 percent.

Environment


Abandoning the Kyoto Treaty without offering an alternative for reducing greenhouse effect.


Counting on a voluntary program to reduce emissions of harmful gasses-so far only a tiny fraction of American companies have signed up.


Gutting clean air standards for aging power plants.


Weakening energy efficiency standards.


Relaxing dumping standards for mountaintop mining, and opening the Florida Everglades and Oregon's Siskiyou National Forest to mining.


Lifting protection for more than 200 million acres of public land.


Limiting public challenges to logging projects and increased logging in protected areas, including Alaska's Tongass National Forest.


Weakening environmental standards for snowmobiles and other off-road vehicles while pushing for exemptions for air pollution proposals for five categories of industrial facilities.


Opposing legislation that would require greater fuel efficiency for passenger cars.


Reducing inspections, penalties for violations, and prosecution of environmental crimes.


Misleading the public about the Washington mad cow case and the likely effectiveness of USDA's weak testing program.


Withdrawing public information on chemical plant dangers, previously used to hold facilities accountable for safety improvements.

Other


Cutting grants to state and local governments in FY 2005, forcing states to make massive cuts in job training, education, housing and environment.

 

Yea, those damn S-P left always wanting to defend the rights of people and not wanting to **** on the constitution.

 

I don't see the left defending my right to bear arms

 

That's pretty much the only one. That's one of the things that bring my political ideology more to the center.

 

Given the time and the inclination, I'm sure I could punch holes in at least 90% of the snippets that were posted by you. It's really not worth the effort, because liberals are deaf, dumb and blind to facts.. I see it every day.

In future years, the American people (all of them) will see that (in retrospect) President Bush was a great President and was right to stand his ground.

 

My favorite was the 10-round magazines that the liberals pushed..