Electronic Bypass for Procharger
Electronic Bypass for Procharger Before asked, yes i used the search button. Has anyone ever tried to use
something that can adjust or maintain the boost on a supercharger? I know they
use them on turbos. This is how i would want it to work. I would want to put a slightly smaller blower pulley to make the boost kick in sooner and after i hit the boost that i want i would want the boost controller to bleed off extra boost.
Can something like this be done or is it already being done? It seems like a easy thing to do, but most of the boost controllers i see seem to control a wastegate. I like that E-Boost controller that can fit in a gauge pod on the A pillar. If anyone is doing this please post up what model you used and how it works.
Thanks.
Den
something that can adjust or maintain the boost on a supercharger? I know they
use them on turbos. This is how i would want it to work. I would want to put a slightly smaller blower pulley to make the boost kick in sooner and after i hit the boost that i want i would want the boost controller to bleed off extra boost.
Can something like this be done or is it already being done? It seems like a easy thing to do, but most of the boost controllers i see seem to control a wastegate. I like that E-Boost controller that can fit in a gauge pod on the A pillar. If anyone is doing this please post up what model you used and how it works.
Thanks.
Den
On The Tree
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: Breese, IL
good concept. I'd love to see a dyno chart with the difference under the curve pulley'd at 12psi versus pullied to max impeller speed and controlled to 12psi. The midrange potential is definitely there for sure.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/979806-any-superchargers-w-boost-controllers.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/979806-any-superchargers-w-boost-controllers.html
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 4
you dont need an electric BOV. a guy rigged a Weastgate with an electronic boost controler onto his SC'ed C6 (i think). he said it worked great. he had about 12psi for normal DDing and 16-18 when he really wanted it. he also said it came on just as hard low down on the low boost setting as the high, the boost just table topped out. 
Cheers
Chris.
Cheers
Chris.
Thats a good article but they should have compared the power curves for the blower pullied for 15psi -vs- pullied for 20psi but gated for 15.
That would have shown the advantages on the street as stated by Roadie
That would have shown the advantages on the street as stated by Roadie
This has been covered before.... there are some good discussions on this too. It is possible.
Im not sure what key words to use for the search to find them but there are a few good threads out there on it, a couple are fairly recent too.
Im not sure what key words to use for the search to find them but there are a few good threads out there on it, a couple are fairly recent too.
Thats good that its been done and that it works. I like the idea of using the right pullies
to make boost come in sooner then have that wastegate idea or some systems to bleed of boost when you hit the desired boost level. You get the best of both worlds. I wonder how the wastegate or BOV or whatever sounds when it's bleeding off boost pressure...it might sound like **** if it hisses like a tire leaking air..lol.
to make boost come in sooner then have that wastegate idea or some systems to bleed of boost when you hit the desired boost level. You get the best of both worlds. I wonder how the wastegate or BOV or whatever sounds when it's bleeding off boost pressure...it might sound like **** if it hisses like a tire leaking air..lol.
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 3
The problem is that 15 psi with a valve bleeding off pressure will make less hp than 15 psi with no valve. You're using up hp to spin the blower, then just letting the extra air go to atmosphere. The parasitic losses are higher.
Furthermore, if you manage to get a serpentine pulley setup to get 16-18 psi from a centri, then you've accomplished something than many people can't seem to attain. I, for one, couldn't get my T-trim over 14 psi with a serpentine setup and all the tricks. So, if you manage to make 16+ from a centri, then count yourself lucky and enjoy the boost! No need to bleed it off if the engine is built and tuned right!
Furthermore, if you manage to get a serpentine pulley setup to get 16-18 psi from a centri, then you've accomplished something than many people can't seem to attain. I, for one, couldn't get my T-trim over 14 psi with a serpentine setup and all the tricks. So, if you manage to make 16+ from a centri, then count yourself lucky and enjoy the boost! No need to bleed it off if the engine is built and tuned right!
Trending Topics
Bleeding boost would eat more power and be hard on the head unit. It would be interesting to run an electronic throttlebody in front of the blower inlet and choke it down to control boost, this would take less power to drive the blower and still control boost.
Kurt
Kurt
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 4
this has all been talked about before. as i and others ahve said, the waestgate has been tried and tested...
hate to be a ****, and i seriously respect both engineermike and 427 for what they have done in the past...
Chris.
hate to be a ****, and i seriously respect both engineermike and 427 for what they have done in the past...
Chris.
I found a post that was started in 2006 about this idea...and it looks like its just best too
leave the D1SC just do it's thing...but i like the idea of upgrading to the Race Bypass that Procharger sells. I'll ge one from Bob at EPP. Thanks all.
leave the D1SC just do it's thing...but i like the idea of upgrading to the Race Bypass that Procharger sells. I'll ge one from Bob at EPP. Thanks all.
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,153
Likes: 3
Basically, there is no efficient way to reduce high rpm boost without slowing down the compressor or varying some compressor geometry (Variable IGV or EGV's). If you really want the best of both worlds, then install a good efficient screw-charger.
I know lots of people have talked about doing this, but I have yet to hear any success stories.
A little embarrassed here... never owned a mustang but I read Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords (MMFF). Good magazine. Let the flaming begin. 
Anyway they had an article not too long ago where a guy did what you're talking about. He did it to be able to limit boost to run pump gas on the street and then go all out at the track with race gas.
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...all/index.html
Anyway they had an article not too long ago where a guy did what you're talking about. He did it to be able to limit boost to run pump gas on the street and then go all out at the track with race gas.
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...all/index.html
I never did any real testing, just a little playing in the engine dyno cell. The bleeding of boost after the supercharger caused the belt to slip but did produce the early boost desired. After talking with the SC producer about what I was doing they said stop it before they have a heart attack!! The additional loads from adding all the air volume would cause the sc to fail if driven in this mode to often.
I then did some testing with fixed restrictions on the SC inlet, this reduced the load to drive the supercharger, still added the early boost, but the smaller ones made some nasty air noise that would drive you nuts! My next thought was an electronic throttleblade that I thought could be made big, maybe 120MM, but with a 70 or 80MM hole in it once the top side restriction was determined. Before I went after this we found a transmission that would overdrive the supercharger 1.36-1 at low speeds, then downshift once the engine speed came up. Driving these units on the street gave the desired result, boost would climb quickly getting the car moving, then drop on the downshift to keep the topside boost/SC RPM safe. The unit was deemed to expensive for what the market could accept to cure the problem, so testing died out.
I am currently working on an F-car with the 8 rib/F series Procharger, so the inlet restriction may get revisited for a pump gas solution without changing pulleys.
Nice to hear what works for others!
Kurt
I then did some testing with fixed restrictions on the SC inlet, this reduced the load to drive the supercharger, still added the early boost, but the smaller ones made some nasty air noise that would drive you nuts! My next thought was an electronic throttleblade that I thought could be made big, maybe 120MM, but with a 70 or 80MM hole in it once the top side restriction was determined. Before I went after this we found a transmission that would overdrive the supercharger 1.36-1 at low speeds, then downshift once the engine speed came up. Driving these units on the street gave the desired result, boost would climb quickly getting the car moving, then drop on the downshift to keep the topside boost/SC RPM safe. The unit was deemed to expensive for what the market could accept to cure the problem, so testing died out.
I am currently working on an F-car with the 8 rib/F series Procharger, so the inlet restriction may get revisited for a pump gas solution without changing pulleys.
Nice to hear what works for others!
Kurt
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 4
there was a trasmition company (cant rember their dam name now!) that made a small CVT transmition and attached it to a IHI comp. housing. two of them made over 1000bhp on one of the old 3.8ltr BMW M5's i think.
im guessing they would be similar in size tothe rotex stuff but with the CVT transmition....
Chris.
im guessing they would be similar in size tothe rotex stuff but with the CVT transmition....
Chris.
LS1TECH Sponsor
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
why would it be hard on the head unit. The head unit has no idea whats going on on the discharge side. It doesnt know or care about the difference. Your not overspinning it so I dont understand why it would hurt the unit. I spoke to a race tech at procharger and they said nothing of the sort to me. " The unit doesnt know the difference " " Its speed is determined by pulley and rpm "
On The Tree
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: Breese, IL
I never did any real testing, just a little playing in the engine dyno cell. The bleeding of boost after the supercharger caused the belt to slip but did produce the early boost desired. After talking with the SC producer about what I was doing they said stop it before they have a heart attack!! The additional loads from adding all the air volume would cause the sc to fail if driven in this mode to often.
If the belt slips with bleeding pressure off the intake piping, it is going to slip trying to run at full boost. It's time to fix the belt slip -- that isn't a problem induced by adding a wastegate.
The second part also has me scratching my head. If the supercharger is pullied so you keep the impeller speed under the max impeller speed, what's the problem? Why stop it, and why a heart attack? Sure you lose some efficiency (the power it takes to spin the blower harder), but max impeller speed is still max impeller speed. The wastegate opening is similar to having much better flowing heads. The head unit flows the same amount of air, but there's less boost pressure because boost is a measure of air restriction.
I definitely see the point of losing efficiency and taking more power to spin the blower, but efficiency aside, does it make the desired results? I'm reserving judgement until after I see a dyno chart comparing "pullied to x PSI" vs. "pullied to max impeller speed + wastegate bled to x PSI" on the same car. I don't have a blower... Anyone want to try this and post up a comparison dyno chart?
I completely understand what Mike says about restricting the blower intake and air temps. To me, that poses other problems and I wouldn't even consider it as an option.
The trans was probably the same one we used, it was made by a company called Antonov (spelling?). The trans was shifted by a combination of load and centrifical weights, but sadly the volume was to low to make the price right. They actually use the trans as a drive transmission in some kind of car in Europe, they said 1.1 litre engine!
Kurt
Kurt
there was a trasmition company (cant rember their dam name now!) that made a small CVT transmition and attached it to a IHI comp. housing. two of them made over 1000bhp on one of the old 3.8ltr BMW M5's i think.
im guessing they would be similar in size tothe rotex stuff but with the CVT transmition....
Chris.
im guessing they would be similar in size tothe rotex stuff but with the CVT transmition....
Chris.