Actually at one time I was interested in purchasing the QMP kit. Driving to Texas to have it installed is WAY out of the way, for me anyway. I would have to take a week off from work and pay 5 days in hotel fees.. Your kit looks awesome on your website, but I want a bolt on and go kit. Only maintenance I want is changing the oil and polishing it every now and then. $7k plus install is a lot of money even for us IT people..

 

Is the intercooler sandwiched between the splash guard and the radiator? I'd like to see a picture of that.

 

Well, I think we can agree that a Mac flows better than a stock manifold. That means the charge from the passenger side hits the log with greater velocity. Can we agree on this too? If it has greater velocity, doesn't it spool the turbo faster and move the exhaust out better, possibly even help scavange the driver's side primaries? Net result being less heat.

I think that is what Warbird is trying to say (or not say in this case) is the problem. Not enough charge velocity in the log on his motor. That could also be why Intmid8 said that a larger crossover would hurt him (less velocity from the pass. side). Warbird? Am I getting close?

I'm not taking sides, contrary to what you might think Rob, I'm just tring to understand what is happening here.

-Geoff

 

think happy thoughts, think happy thoughts,the suspense is killing me,sorry im just trying to make the posts happier

 

A larger crossover will reduce velocity.

 

The intercooler sits directly in front of the rad yes.

 

Uh, uh, Geoff -

While there is room for greater volume, perhaps, there is not greater velocity. A more constricted area would create greater velocity. Take your water hose nozzle, for instance. When you open it all the way, with the same water pressure, you have a slower stream. When you move the nozzle to a SMALLER opening, you actually have MORE velocity, which is evidenced by how much farther it projects and how much stronger the stream is.

That's one reason why I say we can't throw theories out there while we castigate a vendor who has R&D'd these kits. It isn't right that their business is impacted by we who speculate as to why this or that happens.

 

ok every one read this post about exaust sizing and velocity

https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...31&fpart=1

did we forget what we read already

 

As I understand this:

For the most part the article addresses flow restrictions after the turbo. That article would indict the junk-like (chambered) Corsa previously employed on the subject car.

Like any other part of an engine, higher velocity is preferable... In the case of N/A, for low speed throttle response and TQ production; in the case of a turbo, to spool the turbine side quicker.

I don't believe I am taking this out of context. I've built some pretty mean turbo cars, and they seem to respond to high velocity ports with (relatively) small dimensions.

Big tubes don't work for quick spool, and as anyone knows, big tubes make for a soft bottom...

The larger the cross-over, log, and associated primaries (not-withstanding that the "aim" is slightly skewed) the more lazy the turbo response.

All of this STILL does not resolve the overheating issues that the amateur in question claims is completely QMP's fault. A claim not substantiated by ANY one else, I might add.

Again: Get a clue gents! Read the post in context! This guy is clouding the issue. He bought more than he can handle, and he's reaping the benefits of his (20-year-old) experience.

After all, when 20-something and totally full of pride and whatever else, who among us would admit to commissioning the idiots of the automotive world, for a handsome fee I might add, and then admit that they were completely fooled?

Give him a break, but don't let it escape anyone! It IS a case of misplaced trust, and misguided defense.

Just saying the truth!

SC-

TWF_RR_&_J

 

My mac header seemed to slow spool by 100-200 rpm. When I had NO stat, my car ran hot. I had a vacuum hose undone and connecting it made my car run cooler. I dunno what it was for but it was the ONLY thing I changed and my temps dropped 10 degrees...by atap. Maybe it's the big cubes....made the radiator....maybe a head gasket flipped over....maybe the stat letting it flow too fast and not enough time to cool....too lean...all sorts of things. Rob has bent over backwards to support his kit....hopefully other potential buyers won't take this thread as a hint to a big problem as I don't think it's the kit. I DO think Robs kit is causing some peoples rear tires to wear MUCH faster than the fronts!

 

Here's what I get out of it. Say what you want...but I'm pretty neutral here and will (hopefully) give a non-biased opinion...unlike SS00Blue or Chris P.

The Manufacturer made no guarantee or really any statement about the expectations of this TUNER kit. Someone bought said kit from said Manufacturer and took it to a TUNER SHOP to have it installed. Afterwards, he complained about the 'kit' stating it was the cause of x, y, and z. That is wrong, period. Rob cannot test one kit w/ 2 turbo's on each of even a 1000 combo's and get a real idea what will happen in the real world. EVERYONE on this site (AT LEAST!) should know that EVERY car on this site is different.

Ok, with that being said. Who doesnt know that the B&B FLOWS LIKE ****? Ok, even if he didn't know, why not look at that as the issue?? Or even an avenue of investigation?? To me, its common sense that lack of exhaust flow after the turbo can and will cause problems...heat included. Its also common sense that the larger motor with all the goodies would simply produce MORE EXHAUST VOLUME for said turbo (too small) to process and expell through said SHITTY exaust. The MAC's MAY have helped only because you switched one glowing red manifold for a longer slightly less white-hot piece of metal...therby "cooling" the motor down.

I think the fact of the matter is this (skipping the crap about the SLP rad and oil issues):: Your SHITTY exhaust that YOU didnt change caused problems with your TUNER kit installed by a TUNER SHOP who is NOT QMP. You looked to QMP, which was your right, but it was NOT your right to libel Rob or QMP for the issues ONLY YOU were having with YOUR kit. That being said, I do not know what was said between you and Rob and ARE and Rob. Was he helpful? I don't know. Did he HAVE to be? No.


No one that you talked to suggested that the exhaust restriction could cause heat and lack of power?? Hell, a guy on this site literally BLEW his stock catback off with a mild 346+a Vortech G-Trim. Added a mufflex and had no issues.

 

Headers flow better than the stock exhaust manifolds. Flow is velocity. So there is more velocity from the Mac hitting the log than from the stock header.

Time for some thermodynamics. There may be more volume in the header, but that doesn't matter. Look at each system of header and crossover as a control volume (everybody draw your free body diagram!). As a control volume, you're not concerned with what happens inside the system, only what energy is going in and out in steady state. The total energy entering the system is the same (from the passenger side head). The first law of thermodynamics says that for a system in steady state, the energy in and energy out are equal. Each system has two paths that energy exits - the exhaust charge into the log (in the form of mass times velocity), and heat transfer back into the head and header. So if the Mac header has a more energy leaving in the exhaust charge (energy in terms of mass times velocity), then it has less energy exiting your control volume as heat. The total amount of energy exiting is the same in both systems. So for the stock header, less velocity in the exhaust charge equals more leaving as heat. Rob asked how it is possible for a header to decrease the temperature. I think the paragraph above explains how.

I'm not castigating anyone either. This is a forum for us to discuss these things. I am not bashing anyone, and I have kept my tone free of attacks.

-Geoff

 

Blah, blah, blah...Okay...simple question then:

Why is it that my car makes over 700rwhp/758rwtq through the SAME passenger manifold and never runs hot? And please don't say it's because my engine is smaller. That would only work in my favor to proving my point further.

Lastly...why have we STILL not gotten an answer to the original question??? I think we have all waited long enough????

p.s. Warbird didn't even buy the turbo kit from us. We sold it to ARE at Wholesale. I have never had any dealings with him prior to this whole internet fiasco. Yet I am the only one having to defend myself. This truly is ridiculous.

 

White...english please. Not all of us are engineers here...

Are you basically saying that the larger overall volume of the Mac would create less heat that a smaller manifold?? I'm just curious since I think the whole issue is Warbirds B&B catback.

And now that I see Rob did not even deal with whats-his-name in the first place then I seriously think its BS for him to call Rob out on this kit.

 

rob did you get my e-mail

 

"give a non-biased opinion...unlike SS00Blue"

Yup, I'm biased because I know the truth. Are you that stupid, or can you see that the equipment you did not purchase is superior to that which you did NOT purchase?\

Cool are you...

(everybody draw your free body diagram!).
The first law of thermodynamics says that for a system in steady state, the energy in and energy out are equal.

 

I don't know the answer to that Rob. I did, however, answer your question about how a header can make a car run cooler, and you proceeded to blow me off. And, you continue to not answer direct questions from other people. Obviously, Warbird was right to say that you had no intent of learning the truth, you are just trying to start something. His answer to you was hinted at, and I just clarifed it for you. You just don't seem to want to hear it. I don't blame him for not posting on this thread anymore.

As far as you defending yourself, I don't see ARE starting threads with the titles "Warbird vs. QMP" and the current "ATTN: Warbird....Please Reply Regarding Overheating Issue". My suggestion is to let it go, and the "attacks" will stop. I don't consider my posts attacks either, and I apologize if I give that tone, I am trying very hard not to. If you'll notice, I haven't even responded to my arch nemesis SS00Blue. I'll let my car do the talking with him next spring.

-Geoff

 

I'm saying that the flow is independant of the volume. A control volume is a thermodynamics expression used to describe a fixed area in space. To analyze it, you look at the energy going in and out of the volume you define. What's inside it doesn't matter, you only look at the energy that crosses the boundries that you have drawn. For the header system, you look at the control volume as the inside of the headers and crossover up to the log. Coming in you have the exhaust from the heads, and going out you have exhaust to the log and heat. It is a closed system in steady state, and the energy going out always equals the energy coming in.

-Geoff

 

uh...ok. yeah.

Anyway...SS...I was just kidding. But you obviously do have some vested interest in Rob's product, like MM and Warbird or Chris w/ ARE. I was just attempting to give an opinion from just some dude. Thast me....just some dude....or maybe...TheDude...or ElDuderino?

 

Hurricane isabel kicked our butts.... i was told no chance of power for another week and half.. so i am posting from a friends computer.

anyways...

Rob, how an you possibly make posts like this one, and it be considered ok?... yet i get warned/banned/stunned when i simply reply to "call-outs" from you to defend myself.. just how you have done to warbird.

If he didn't reply, he would have been "assumed" to be wrong... and so he replied just as anyone else would do if they were called out...and you set him up for a bashing..... SO unprofessional!

A few other people have had this poorly designed clamp deal blow off.. so were all of those not tight either??

Your exactly right.... all that back pressure from the log style manifold.. NOT the catback. True the catback was restrictive... so hp and some spool up was affected... but if the catback was that restrictive... the car would have never made any boost due to the pressure differential between the turbine side and the downpipe side.

MM's cracked.. and he had a straight through 3" bullet right on the end of the QMP intermediate pipe coming from the downpipe... so tell me how you can get any less restrictive and still have a muffler on it?

I know MM's did and i am sure all of the others will if they are not already... especially those pushing the limits of the kit.
And you hit the nail right on the head... that thin stainless was never intended for constant heat cycling... great for a race car... but NOT a street car.

Rob.. you have an auto... just point and shoot, not much skill involved other than cutting good lights... and you don't seem to do that well either..

So it was valvesprings that caused his graph to die off? or was it fuel problems like you told everyone? I thought you got that fixed on the second dyno pass.. which would have made it fixed for those track runs.. come on Rob.. get your story straight.

Ton more power? 7hp is a "ton" more power?

hmmmm... only at 550rwhp... didn't i say somethig about that being the limit of the kit where there was a wall you would start hitting?

I thought you said there were a "ton" of people who bought this kit from you under the condition that you didn't let it known to the public, and they don't post for the same reason... so how would we know about those problems? Actually how would anyone know they were having problems other than you? How convenient Rob....

Thus backing up what i said above... i personally don't think there is anyone else with the kit... plus maybe a handfull who bought it from you locally...And if you look at the results... only one person said they haven't had any problems... and his (SS00Blue) comments seem a bit retarded. So overall, the kit has serious problems... as seen from the results in the field.



Bottom line is that nobody has put such a huge engine under the QMP kit as Warbird. So that 550rwhp wall comes much sooner than it would with a stock engine. The log is TOO restrictive and forcing the engine to work too hard and building up too much heat in the engine. That is he problem plain and simple. To fix it he would have to do what Rob should have done right the first time... design something that would flow more than the "street" kit that TT designed.
When TT came out with their kit, nobody else had a turbo kit for the Ls1's, so to beat everyone to the market, they accepted the downsides to the log manifold and introduced the kit as a "street" kit... rob just tried to make a street kit into a high hp supporting race kit as well and it just doesn't work.
There is nothing that the QMP kit will do that the original TT kit won't other than cost you more money, cause you more problems down the road, and when those problems do arise, the manufacturer will make public posts with the intention of embarrassing you, claiming you are wrong... "FACT".

This is BS.. and as time goes by, i am seeing what i hoped would happen... more people would realize Rob is a liar and his kit does not do what he claims it will, and they are posting up that they are not getting what they expected when they purchased the kit.
Maybe by the end of the year, Rob will "swallow his pride" and admit to everything.....