I tried searching but I couldn't find too many good results.

Basically I started a thread earlier in the week about the best way to hold down my 317 heads. Someone mentioned oring'ing and while I thought about it I didn't really consider it. I am now a little more interested, so I just want to know who all here has done it and what process you used.

Did you have a receiver groove in the head or block?
What material, and how thick for the oring?
Used what gasket with the oring?
Approx cost of orings and machining?

Here's a link to my other thread!

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...l#post12364590

Thanks!

Adam

 

When I worked at TEA they O-Ringed LOTS of heads. Receiver grove was in the head and it was .041" Stainless. Most people used cometic head gaskets, but some still used the MLS stock gaskets. Contact Brian Tooley at TEA and he will be able to help you out.

 

Pretty sure you need to put a receiver groove in the block man..

 

so they just cut a groove in the head and not the block at all? does it just cut into the gasket since the ring is only .041 and the the gasket is thicker than that? do you know approx what they charge?

 

basically. its more to keep the gasket in place and seal well. if its possible IMO i would rather cut the block but its really the same idea either way. you still need a solid way to hold the heads down but usually a good O-ring with ARP hardware will last into 4 digit power numbers with no problems.

 

I had double o-rings (block and head) with a copper head gasket- done by Shawn at virginia speed. block failed before the gasket

New motor will get the same treatment

 

^^^lol that sounds about right, o rings seem to bite down on the copper gaskets like crocodiles.

 

Many different ways to do this, and all have worked to some degree.
The best on the stock LS engines seems to be o-ring in the head with a receiver in the block. If you put the o-ring in the block it will cause issues because of the base design of the LS blocks. If you need the o-ring in the block for some reason, running it no more than .010 proud has worked for me in the past. When using o-rings in stock blocks the iron will normally crack across the deck from the low water ports connecting them. This gets better with block filler, but it still has risk involved of cutting the deck. On the aluminum blocks the block will normally crack behind the sleeve just down from where the cylinders come together, this will cause the sleeve to crack. This also can be made better with block filler, but the fix is welding in the bridge across the head studs and re sleeving if that is in your budget. ERL has done this in the past and I am sure others have repairs also.

Kurt

 

There was a post not to long ago about a different method. I saved the pic

 

OooO good info so far guys. Thanks!

 

Does the LQ4 blocks have the same issue with the oring in the block?

 

please keep it coming, this is very interesting

 

Interesting.

I did a Quick Search and found this for you.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...lbs-today.html

 

what kinda dinero at the machine shop for this to existing heads??

 

Not gettin it....whats going on here with o-ringing?

Whats the purpose of the 4mm wide channel?

.

 

I will have to research it. Also notice the 4 tabs per cylinder.

 

the channel is so when/if it does lift the pressure escapes out instead of going into the water passages. at least thats what i think it says in the thread, interesting system none the less

the kit shown uses graphite gaskets, just to seal the water passages, its about a 600 kit shipped to your door from overseas

 

Yes. The LQ4 will crack across the water passage if you try and run to much "crush" at the fire ring. I have used .012 proud o-rings with a .008 reciever with good results and no cracks on the iron block. I switched on most LS engines to putting the o-ring in the head because the heads were aftermarket and by design stronger than the block.

Kurt

 

I run double o-rings. O-ring in the block and one in the head. We've been 162 to the 1/8 mile @ 40# of boost and 157 on 35# of boost. There is zero leakage. Brian(Fireball) has the same setup and he does not have any of leakage as a matter of fact the cylinder liner gave up before the head gasket. The double o-ring setup was done by Shawn @ VA Speed, must be done inhouse on his CNC.

 

Hi ,

Here is a couple of pictures attached of my 4-cyl engine i did a couple of years ago.
The steel ring is cut into the block with supplied measurments of the steel ring/material properties.(Expanding due to heat etc due to the specific operating temperatures of the engine and the materials involved.)
The steel ring also has two grooves that cuts into the head , taking into account how much the cut out stock headgasket (stock is used for sealing water/oil - not pressures produced by combustion pressure/torque of the engine) compresses when used with supplied fasteners , ARP.

This method of sealing is used by Saab (30+ years of experience of turbocharging) during development of OEM turbocharged engines.
Also by tuners like Trollspeed in Sweden that ran their Pikes Peak Saab to victory years ago.
The method was also used by BMW during the turbocharged era in the 80´s with 1400-1500fwhp out of 1.6 liter engines.

This sealing method is "quite" good and also reliable and used for added insurance so to speak - it´s considered to be trusted by many.
The keyword is added insurance - it will seal like a frogs *** in water.

As of my 4-cyl engine the torque output was only 550 ftlb out of 2.3L cyl volume , it could have very well been handled by an MLS gasket and some correct/quality hardware for holding and distributing the clamping load evenly on the head - if the structural integrity of the head and block is ok during maximum load/biggest bang.
I think it can be taken considerably higher if other hardware can handle it.
On Saab production heads they drill and tap holes for additional support/structural integrity from a quality bolts between the sparkplugs for additional torque output/combustion pressure.

Combine that with up 2.5-3 times larger cylinder volume and high rpm and you will have an engine that will produce quite a lot of power if other components allow reliable operation.

I´m quite sure i won´t be needing that on my stock LM7/L59 engine combined with a built 4L60E on the street - looking for only 550-600rwhp on street
Only looking for power under the curve/throttle response combined with a "small" turbo.

Regards Marko

PS:Now I´m gonna play guitar hero with my 7/9 year old son´s and they are going to kick my sorry ***