6 speed turbo guys
6 speed turbo guys I am heading to the track for the first time this weekend. First time ever, first time with the new setup. Gonna be a handful, I hope to have several runs to try to get it somewhat figured out.
I am running a stock T56, with a 9" w/ 3.25 gears and 28" Bias ET street slicks.
My setup is just an LQ4 and a 75mm borg turbo.
I have played with 2step a bit, I have LNC-002 with timing retard. Its pretty violent, and I have used it to do gnarly burnout on my street tires... I hope to utilize it this weekend to launch like a mother&#$&@.
I have it set at 5000, but and I was thinking about lowering it a bit, as Im sure I can even build full boost with a lower setting. Not that I expect to hook launching on 18#, but I want to have it avaiable.
Anyway, I have heard about 3-step before and was thinking it would be difficult to get it to work.
Sitting at work today, I was trying to think of how to lockout my 2step so that it doesn't hit when I shift 1-2,2-3,3-4
Then it hit me... Why not just leave it on and use it as "3-step" between shifts. because I was also talking to friends yesterday about no-lift-shifting, the idea frightens me, especially with my sintered iron cluth plates in my textralia twin disc.
I did some research, and found that with my setup. shifting into second would be at 4200RPM, 3rd at 4500RPM and 4th at 4800RPM.
So my brainstorm today, I thought if I were to leave it at 5000 or so. when I pushed in the clutch to shift, the 2-step would drop the RPMs to 5000 which would both build boost between shifts and bring RPMs down quick which would lessen the impact on the trans during my shifts...
What do you guys think?
I am running a stock T56, with a 9" w/ 3.25 gears and 28" Bias ET street slicks.
My setup is just an LQ4 and a 75mm borg turbo.
I have played with 2step a bit, I have LNC-002 with timing retard. Its pretty violent, and I have used it to do gnarly burnout on my street tires... I hope to utilize it this weekend to launch like a mother&#$&@.
I have it set at 5000, but and I was thinking about lowering it a bit, as Im sure I can even build full boost with a lower setting. Not that I expect to hook launching on 18#, but I want to have it avaiable.
Anyway, I have heard about 3-step before and was thinking it would be difficult to get it to work.
Sitting at work today, I was trying to think of how to lockout my 2step so that it doesn't hit when I shift 1-2,2-3,3-4
Then it hit me... Why not just leave it on and use it as "3-step" between shifts. because I was also talking to friends yesterday about no-lift-shifting, the idea frightens me, especially with my sintered iron cluth plates in my textralia twin disc.
I did some research, and found that with my setup. shifting into second would be at 4200RPM, 3rd at 4500RPM and 4th at 4800RPM.
So my brainstorm today, I thought if I were to leave it at 5000 or so. when I pushed in the clutch to shift, the 2-step would drop the RPMs to 5000 which would both build boost between shifts and bring RPMs down quick which would lessen the impact on the trans during my shifts...
What do you guys think?
Last edited by PUNISHER TA; Oct 9, 2013 at 09:04 AM.
How are you building 18 psi at launch?! I have a six speed too but I ve never gotten more than a 1 or 2 while launching. Granted I don't have a two step or leave at 5k. I thought two steps just help give consistent launches, not help build boost
His 2-step pulls timing which helps build boost. Even without pulling timing a 2-step can help build a little boost
I'm only running 26x10.5 et streets on a full weight car but I find that I 60ft better with less boost. Too much boost/rpms and it spins too hard. With a 6 speed it's a balancing act between bog, tire spin, and clutch slip
I think if you no lift shift a setup like that you are asking for it to just spin the tires and go sideways, but I'm used to crappy track prep around here so it might not be an issue. Back when my Camaro was a manual I just used the 2 step to launch around 4500 rpms and it built a solid 6+ psi on my combo without an sort of timing retard and that was the highest/best I could do with how it was setup. Any higher or more boost and it was game over but every combo and track is different so start low and keep going up until it doesn't bog.
I can post a video of my car later but yea my 2step pulls a lot of of timing which allows me to make as much boost as I want in neutral. It is awesome.
Yea. It sounds like a fun challenge to work yhrough. Btw if the car is still alive im planning on being at MMM sunday. I know brandon carr is going as well.
Yea. It sounds like a fun challenge to work yhrough. Btw if the car is still alive im planning on being at MMM sunday. I know brandon carr is going as well.
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Your gear/ tire combo is gonna make it equivalent to 2.73 rear gear with 26in tire.. let me know how that goes for you cus ive always felt thats way too low (numerically) for a 6spd car but ive been thinking about trying it. I just see a lot of 6spd cars bog and with that gear i think it might suffer from that even more if you cant "get up" on the tire like slicks need. A drag radial just makes it even more challenging
Assuming you will trap 130mph+ you'll be slightly north of 5000rpm at the finish line, which should be the brunt of the powerband
Either way, no lift shifting with the ignition cut will make it very easy. I just installed something that does the same thing and its easier to no lift shift than anything else now. It seems to take that giant hit out of the shift like you are thinking.
Assuming you will trap 130mph+ you'll be slightly north of 5000rpm at the finish line, which should be the brunt of the powerband
Either way, no lift shifting with the ignition cut will make it very easy. I just installed something that does the same thing and its easier to no lift shift than anything else now. It seems to take that giant hit out of the shift like you are thinking.
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5k would be a good start point I would imagine. I launched at 6600 (10-11psi)and still bogged, but I think it mostly had to do with my clutch position sensor not engaging at the right time. Mine also has 4.30 gears. You will have to alot more clutch slipping with your set up.
youre overthinking it. just focus on the launch. if you have time for the two step to have any effect during the shifts your doing it wrong and not shifting fast enough
rpm gives you wheel speed and boost gives you power to pull through and get the car moving. with a manual and a stock style clutch (non slipper) its all about controlling the initial tire spin and getting full hook right in the meat of the power. your going to need a good amount of rpm to the get good wheel speed out of 28" and 3.25's so i would launch with as much rpm as possible and use timing retard to up the boost to control the spin. good luck on et streets though
for what its worth i generally launch at 4800-5200, dont pull timing and see 1-3 psi, and cut low 1.5s with 3.70's and 28" et drags
no matter what happens, post results. no one seems to post 6 speed results here
rpm gives you wheel speed and boost gives you power to pull through and get the car moving. with a manual and a stock style clutch (non slipper) its all about controlling the initial tire spin and getting full hook right in the meat of the power. your going to need a good amount of rpm to the get good wheel speed out of 28" and 3.25's so i would launch with as much rpm as possible and use timing retard to up the boost to control the spin. good luck on et streets though
for what its worth i generally launch at 4800-5200, dont pull timing and see 1-3 psi, and cut low 1.5s with 3.70's and 28" et drags
no matter what happens, post results. no one seems to post 6 speed results here
I still have a long ways to go on mine but FWIW my best to date is 11.32 at 126.95mph with a 1.78 60'.
Setup is Huron Speed hot/coldside, TC78, LS6 cam, 317 heads, 10-10.5 psi, 16 degrees, 14gph 50/50 meth/water.
I ran out of pump (racetronix 255) and need to get that corrected this winter before upping the boost anymore. I also need to weigh my car so I can make better comparisons. I've never removed weight but pretty sure I have added a fair amount with turbo, intercooler, 9", etc. Best guess is 3800-3900 with me in it. Something else I need to work on...
edit: not sure why the video doesn't work but if you click on the title it will play
Last edited by 1999Black_Z28; Oct 9, 2013 at 07:50 AM.
rpm gives you wheel speed and boost gives you power to pull through and get the car moving. with a manual and a stock style clutch (non slipper) its all about controlling the initial tire spin and getting full hook right in the meat of the power. your going to need a good amount of rpm to the get good wheel speed out of 28" and 3.25's so i would launch with as much rpm as possible and use timing retard to up the boost to control the spin. good luck on et streets though
no matter what happens, post results. no one seems to post 6 speed results here
no matter what happens, post results. no one seems to post 6 speed results here
But most 6spd turbo guys dont post results cus they dont build them for the track, they are highway cars. I havent been to the track since it ran 13s stock lol so i can still pull the its a 13sec car card.
5k would be a good start point I would imagine. I launched at 6600 (10-11psi)and still bogged, but I think it mostly had to do with my clutch position sensor not engaging at the right time. Mine also has 4.30 gears. You will have to alot more clutch slipping with your set up.
Yea, it hasn't been cooperative the past few weekends...
youre overthinking it. just focus on the launch. if you have time for the two step to have any effect during the shifts your doing it wrong and not shifting fast enough
rpm gives you wheel speed and boost gives you power to pull through and get the car moving. with a manual and a stock style clutch (non slipper) its all about controlling the initial tire spin and getting full hook right in the meat of the power. your going to need a good amount of rpm to the get good wheel speed out of 28" and 3.25's so i would launch with as much rpm as possible and use timing retard to up the boost to control the spin. good luck on et streets though
for what its worth i generally launch at 4800-5200, dont pull timing and see 1-3 psi, and cut low 1.5s with 3.70's and 28" et drags
no matter what happens, post results. no one seems to post 6 speed results here
rpm gives you wheel speed and boost gives you power to pull through and get the car moving. with a manual and a stock style clutch (non slipper) its all about controlling the initial tire spin and getting full hook right in the meat of the power. your going to need a good amount of rpm to the get good wheel speed out of 28" and 3.25's so i would launch with as much rpm as possible and use timing retard to up the boost to control the spin. good luck on et streets though
for what its worth i generally launch at 4800-5200, dont pull timing and see 1-3 psi, and cut low 1.5s with 3.70's and 28" et drags
no matter what happens, post results. no one seems to post 6 speed results here
I do not understand what your are talking about with wheel speed. It would seem that the 28 3.25 setup would have a lot of wheel speed compared to most setups... but of course my instinct is to lauch with as high of RPM as possible.
They are ET Street Bias, no DRs like everyone is picturing.
Sounds good, I appreciate the input, Im going to give it a try and see where I land.
Agreed, I think most people give up or are disappointed when comparing their e.t. numbers to the auto guys.
I still have a long ways to go on mine but FWIW my best to date is 11.32 at 126.95mph with a 1.78 60'.
Setup is Huron Speed hot/coldside, TC78, LS6 cam, 317 heads, 10-10.5 psi, 16 degrees, 14gph 50/50 meth/water.
I ran out of pump (racetronix 255) and need to get that corrected this winter before upping the boost anymore. I also need to weigh my car so I can make better comparisons. I've never removed weight but pretty sure I have added a fair amount with turbo, intercooler, 9", etc. Best guess is 3800-3900 with me in it. Something else I need to work on...
I still have a long ways to go on mine but FWIW my best to date is 11.32 at 126.95mph with a 1.78 60'.
Setup is Huron Speed hot/coldside, TC78, LS6 cam, 317 heads, 10-10.5 psi, 16 degrees, 14gph 50/50 meth/water.
I ran out of pump (racetronix 255) and need to get that corrected this winter before upping the boost anymore. I also need to weigh my car so I can make better comparisons. I've never removed weight but pretty sure I have added a fair amount with turbo, intercooler, 9", etc. Best guess is 3800-3900 with me in it. Something else I need to work on...
Since then, I swapped in a 9 inch, slicks/skinnies, lexan windshield, removed hood. So, Id guess Im at 3400#
Yup, I didn't build this car for the dragstrip. Its got baller wheels, baller sound system, etc. I just built it to be a daily driver. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want an "impressive" slip though.
I do not understand what your are talking about with wheel speed. It would seem that the 28 3.25 setup would have a lot of wheel speed compared to most setups... but of course my instinct is to lauch with as high of RPM as possible.
They are ET Street Bias, no DRs like everyone is picturing.
Watch a slo-mo video of car launching on bias-ply's, youll see that tires are walking that fine line of traction
You've basically got to keep the tires slipping/on the verge of spinning until the car essentially catches up. Its what will propel the car forward through the 60ft. By keeping the "wheel speed" up, you provide the needed power at wheels to keep the car from bogging and unloading. At least thats how i picture it in my head, not the best description though. Your gearing combo is very long which makes it harder to accomplish that, but realistically it can be overcome with enough rpm at the launch. Theeeennn track prep comes into play. So many variables.
Watch a slo-mo video of car launching on bias-ply's, youll see that tires are walking that fine line of traction
Watch a slo-mo video of car launching on bias-ply's, youll see that tires are walking that fine line of traction
Thanks for the help guys.
As mentioned, you NEED a deeper rear gear, 3.25's are not ever going to work properly on a stick car.
Use 2 step for consistent launch rpm and if you want, setup a timing retard while the 2step is active- this will help build boost on the line. Get ready for lots of poping and banging!
I use 28x10.5 slicks, they work well, but I have NEVER had any success getting good 60's with the ET street bias . Radials don't work with a stick car.
Flat foot shifting , don't mess with a 2 step for this, just leave your foot on the floor, graze clutch pedal, and pull stick hard and fast. Shift it like you hate it
Use 2 step for consistent launch rpm and if you want, setup a timing retard while the 2step is active- this will help build boost on the line. Get ready for lots of poping and banging!
I use 28x10.5 slicks, they work well, but I have NEVER had any success getting good 60's with the ET street bias . Radials don't work with a stick car.
Flat foot shifting , don't mess with a 2 step for this, just leave your foot on the floor, graze clutch pedal, and pull stick hard and fast. Shift it like you hate it
Last edited by 3pedals; Oct 9, 2013 at 11:59 AM.
i figured you were referring to bias, the et streets dont hold a candle to the et drags though from my experience
You've basically got to keep the tires slipping/on the verge of spinning until the car essentially catches up. Its what will propel the car forward through the 60ft. By keeping the "wheel speed" up, you provide the needed power at wheels to keep the car from bogging and unloading. At least thats how i picture it in my head, not the best description though. Your gearing combo is very long which makes it harder to accomplish that, but realistically it can be overcome with enough rpm at the launch. Theeeennn track prep comes into play. So many variables.
Watch a slo-mo video of car launching on bias-ply's, youll see that tires are walking that fine line of traction
Watch a slo-mo video of car launching on bias-ply's, youll see that tires are walking that fine line of traction
As mentioned, you NEED a deeper rear gear, 3.25's are not ever going to work properly on a stick car.
Use 2 step for consistent launch rpm and if you want, setup a timing retard while the 2step is active- this will help build boost on the line. Get ready for lots of poping and banging!
I use 28x10.5 slicks, they work well, but I have NEVER had any success getting good 60's with the ET street bias . Radials don't work with a stick car.
Flat foot shifting , don't mess with a 2 step for this, just leave your foot on the floor, graze clutch pedal, and pull stick hard and fast. Shift it like you hate it
Use 2 step for consistent launch rpm and if you want, setup a timing retard while the 2step is active- this will help build boost on the line. Get ready for lots of poping and banging!
I use 28x10.5 slicks, they work well, but I have NEVER had any success getting good 60's with the ET street bias . Radials don't work with a stick car.
Flat foot shifting , don't mess with a 2 step for this, just leave your foot on the floor, graze clutch pedal, and pull stick hard and fast. Shift it like you hate it