4.5 liter Whipple build
I thought about trying this on the 2.9 because the restriction is the core, but the 4.0 core is not restricted by the core it just needs machined for new fittings. Bondobird says the core supplier changed and my 4.0 core is made in USA and the 2.9 is offshore "Stuff", so my 2.9 core might just be the old supplier.
Kurt
Kurt
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From: Fresno, ca
I tapped my intercooler for -12 as the -8 stuff it comes with chokes the flow below 10GPM. I think -10 might have done it, but I need a 90 degree turn pretty quick so I went -12. I have a Meziere pump, it's the only pump I found that can run the GPM I need at the PSI required.
Did you find out if the 2.9 and 4.0 use the same core?
Kurt
Did you find out if the 2.9 and 4.0 use the same core?
Kurt
What part number meziere are you running?
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From: Fresno, ca
I thought about trying this on the 2.9 because the restriction is the core, but the 4.0 core is not restricted by the core it just needs machined for new fittings. Bondobird says the core supplier changed and my 4.0 core is made in USA and the 2.9 is offshore "Stuff", so my 2.9 core might just be the old supplier.
Kurt
Kurt
I just worded that wrong
, it sounded right in my head!
You said they changed core suppliers about a year ago.
I bought my 2.9 over a year ago.
I said the 2.9 core is from overseas and has major flow issues. That is based on flow test and sticker listing origin of assembly. The fittings were bad, but even repaired the core is choked.
The 4.0 core I have is from USA (again origin marked on part) and the only water flow issue was the fittings supplied based on my testing. Takes 20 GPM for 1000hp with supercharger, the fittings supplied will not go over 10 GPM without serious psi, and 20 gpm is not likely. Once I changed the fittings (-12) it went 20GPM with 10 PSI and I will run more PSI on the engine. My test method was 15 seconds on with graduated 5 gallon container, I maxed out at 20 GPM on my test rig!
Kurt
, it sounded right in my head!You said they changed core suppliers about a year ago.
I bought my 2.9 over a year ago.
I said the 2.9 core is from overseas and has major flow issues. That is based on flow test and sticker listing origin of assembly. The fittings were bad, but even repaired the core is choked.
The 4.0 core I have is from USA (again origin marked on part) and the only water flow issue was the fittings supplied based on my testing. Takes 20 GPM for 1000hp with supercharger, the fittings supplied will not go over 10 GPM without serious psi, and 20 gpm is not likely. Once I changed the fittings (-12) it went 20GPM with 10 PSI and I will run more PSI on the engine. My test method was 15 seconds on with graduated 5 gallon container, I maxed out at 20 GPM on my test rig!
Kurt
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On The Tree
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From: Fresno, ca
175/Camaro core on the left, Chevy truck/sandrail core on the right. Exact same core with different fitting locations. It's interesting that you got such different flow numbers from them @427
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My 2.9 and 4.0 have two different cores, the 2.9 is made overseas and the 4.0 is made in USA, both came as delivered by Whipple. The 2.9 flow is extremely poor even with -12 fittings. The 4.0 flow was better, but still could not support 1000hp. Once I machined it for larger fittings it picked up enough flow for over 1000hp on the water, dyno testing will tell me about air flow ability.
I would like to trade in my 2.9 intercooler for the made in USA one, how much would that be?
Kurt
I would like to trade in my 2.9 intercooler for the made in USA one, how much would that be?
Kurt
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On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: Fresno, ca
I'm not too sure if they would trade cores, but you can call is up at
(559)442-1261 or email mike at
michael@whipplesuperchargers.com for pricing
(559)442-1261 or email mike at
michael@whipplesuperchargers.com for pricing
My 2.9 and 4.0 have two different cores, the 2.9 is made overseas and the 4.0 is made in USA, both came as delivered by Whipple. The 2.9 flow is extremely poor even with -12 fittings. The 4.0 flow was better, but still could not support 1000hp. Once I machined it for larger fittings it picked up enough flow for over 1000hp on the water, dyno testing will tell me about air flow ability.
I would like to trade in my 2.9 intercooler for the made in USA one, how much would that be?
Kurt
I would like to trade in my 2.9 intercooler for the made in USA one, how much would that be?
Kurt
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On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 144
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From: Fresno, ca
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: Fresno, ca
What size headers do you guys suggest I run on this engine? 1-7/8 primary with a 3.5 collector and 3.5 pipes to the diff? I've been told to run 2" or 2-1/8" primary but that seems so much bigger than the head port itself. Would it help or hurt?
It won't matter much with your performance goal as 700hp flywheel will meet your needs, you will be hitting a carpet tack with a sledge hammer!
I have done some boosted dyno testing of different headers/mufflers and never seen huge difference. When the restriction goes up the boost PSI follows, but power does not suffer much. When I did my 2.9 testing 1 7/8 and 2 inch showed no difference in power on runs from 3000-6500. Don't believe larger headers will hurt you at WOT, but might drive nicer with 2 inch or smaller as part throttle scavenge should be better.
Kurt
I have done some boosted dyno testing of different headers/mufflers and never seen huge difference. When the restriction goes up the boost PSI follows, but power does not suffer much. When I did my 2.9 testing 1 7/8 and 2 inch showed no difference in power on runs from 3000-6500. Don't believe larger headers will hurt you at WOT, but might drive nicer with 2 inch or smaller as part throttle scavenge should be better.
Kurt
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On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: Fresno, ca
It won't matter much with your performance goal as 700hp flywheel will meet your needs, you will be hitting a carpet tack with a sledge hammer!
I have done some boosted dyno testing of different headers/mufflers and never seen huge difference. When the restriction goes up the boost PSI follows, but power does not suffer much. When I did my 2.9 testing 1 7/8 and 2 inch showed no difference in power on runs from 3000-6500. Don't believe larger headers will hurt you at WOT, but might drive nicer with 2 inch or smaller as part throttle scavenge should be better.
Kurt
I have done some boosted dyno testing of different headers/mufflers and never seen huge difference. When the restriction goes up the boost PSI follows, but power does not suffer much. When I did my 2.9 testing 1 7/8 and 2 inch showed no difference in power on runs from 3000-6500. Don't believe larger headers will hurt you at WOT, but might drive nicer with 2 inch or smaller as part throttle scavenge should be better.
Kurt
I seen your 9 second goal in the first post, so I guessed at power based on my 68 Camaro. With a glide it went 9.4X at 3300 pounds, 9.2X with stick, engine dyno was 660-680 based on air. With 900hp flywheel it went 8.20 at 3250#. If you want your drivability to be nicer ditch the glide and use the 400, it will make off idle response much better because of gear and make it easier to pull the street type gears that make driving nicer.
Kurt
Kurt
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On The Tree
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From: Fresno, ca
I seen your 9 second goal in the first post, so I guessed at power based on my 68 Camaro. With a glide it went 9.4X at 3300 pounds, 9.2X with stick, engine dyno was 660-680 based on air. With 900hp flywheel it went 8.20 at 3250#. If you want your drivability to be nicer ditch the glide and use the 400, it will make off idle response much better because of gear and make it easier to pull the street type gears that make driving nicer.
Kurt
Kurt
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On The Tree
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From: Fresno, ca
Kurt, do you think the 2" taller core would help or hurt the cooling? I guess in my head, I would think that water that stays in there too long, will just get too hot before it's pushed out, leaving most of the core hot.
The glide won't hurt you that bad at WOT because the PD supercharger will make near flat tq, match the converter right and it will et well. The glide will hurt your driving feel at part throttle, when your not in boost and your intake runner is 1 inch long! The reason you would use smaller headers is to bolster that low feel/tq when not in boost. Additional gears require less power/throttle for a given rate of acceleration, that's why new cars are adding gears as less throttle opening=better fuel MPG.
Kurt
Kurt
That core you showed looks like they stacked two, that will add core restriction X2 as well as doubling cooling capacity as long as you have enough water. General rule is 20GPM will cover 1,000hp if the core is capable. Most cores are compromised based on mechanical needs of available space. When you use them in drag racing you typically see the cores used as heat sinks, in those applications the IAT will climb until you lift, starting at low temp supplemented by ice (high delta helps smaller coolers do big work). In steady state with proper water flow the IAT will stabilize, not climbing at all. In realistic racecar stuff the IAT will stay below some specified limit while operating at a realistic duty cycle. More than likely that double core was used on a boat where the engine is operating steady state for extended periods. Testing will show the weak point in any system if you record/watch inlet/outlet of water/air you can figure out if you need water flow or bigger core. Your 2.9 Chinese core was following near 1-1 IAT and water exit temp, both climbing rapidly. This says water flow is required, in that case the core could not do it.
Kurt
Kurt