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Got my car running pretty good. Just switched from a large A2A and went W2A to free up alot of space in front of the radiator on my 87 TA (no open front grills = pure bottom feeder). After the swap my IATs are alittle higher all around (prob due to heat soak as it sits on top of the pass side valve cover. 84* ambient i was seeing 130-150*F out of the supercharger, 100-120*F out of the intercooler (heat soaked) and datalogs show the IAT closer to 99*F before the 50/50 meth which would drop it to 82-88*F during boost. Its only going to get hotter and Ive already wrapped the IC and tubing in HVAC insulation to help with radiant heat.
Anyways The system consits of:
CX racing 12x11x4.5 W2A intercooler 3"I/O with 1/2" NPT ports
Fabbed 1 gallon swirl tank (driver battery tray) uses as reservoir
14x18x1.5 custom fabbed dual pass Heat exchanger
all 3/4" ID heater lines and 1/2"NPT to 3/4" barb fittings
Prius inverter coolant pump (5.2 GPM free flow, tested 3.5GPM through the heat exchanger only)
System is bleed air free and i can heat the water moving alittle with the pump on. My thing is I was at 3.5gpm after adding the head exchanger and that didnt have the IC as a restriction yet as well as all the lines (going above the pump as the IC is the highest Point) so it would have to fight gravity as well as the extra restriction of the IC core. So my thoughts are that my pump isnt enough. I want to upgrade the pump but i'm not sure if the Bosch is an upgrade at this point. supposidly the bosch can flow a decent amount with full 3/4" lines (stock lines and IC on mustangs are much smaller and create the bottle neck) and Im liking the price of them!
But I want to do this once and I dont want to spend more than $250. I was looking at:
Jabsco 50840-0012 - 29GPM free flow, about 4.5GPM at 6ish psi pressure
Bosch 0392022002 - 5GPM free flow, about 3.5 GPM at 6ish psi pressure
Varipump - about 4.8GPM at 6psi pressure
I like the jabsco due to clockable head and brushless motor. Bosch is like half the price but brush replacement on them is required maintenance. And Ive heard the Varipump is decent but some have issues with longevity.
Thoughts? Suggestions? real world testing? Ive done a bunch of research and I'm not getting a ZR1 pump or Stewart and for the price the ZL1 isnt bad persay and its about on par with the varipump.
I had good luck using a Bosch Cobra-style pump and GT500 expansion tank. I found a Roush Stage 3 kit heat exchanger for cheap on eBay and put that in front of the radiator, a completely hot-water system with no ice tank and a pretty small system volume (~2gal). I was also using a Frozen Boost type15 intercooler. 3/4" lines and 4 really harsh 90* bends.
Fully heat soaked on the dyno, I would see about 10* temp rise over a 2500-8500rpm 4th gear pull (see yellow line on data log below). On the street, temps would basically stay around 85F regardless of how cool ambient temps were, but they would only climb a few degrees during a pull. This was at 25-28psi of boost and around 70lb/min of compressor flow on a rotary engine.
Skip all that junk and get a Davies Craig EWP150 for about $220 shipped. Rated for 40GPM and handles head pressure fine.
What about the EWP115 as it has 1"NPT internal threads and get some 1"NPT to 3/4" hose barb fittings? I wonder how it would work with necked down inlet/oulets.
I had good luck using a Bosch Cobra-style pump and GT500 expansion tank. I found a Roush Stage 3 kit heat exchanger for cheap on eBay and put that in front of the radiator, a completely hot-water system with no ice tank and a pretty small system volume (~2gal). I was also using a Frozen Boost type15 intercooler. 3/4" lines and 4 really harsh 90* bends.
Fully heat soaked on the dyno, I would see about 10* temp rise over a 2500-8500rpm 4th gear pull (see yellow line on data log below). On the street, temps would basically stay around 85F regardless of how cool ambient temps were, but they would only climb a few degrees during a pull. This was at 25-28psi of boost and around 70lb/min of compressor flow on a rotary engine.
Thanks for the reply. Thats a positive for the bosch. My system is alot like yours, I would say about 2 gallons of fluid total, but I'm running 4 hard 90* bends and a bunch of snaked 3/4" hose (prob 15ft worth).
My big worry is the amount of fluid I have, even if its 2 gallons, 1 gallon sitting above the pump i'm worried about too high flow a pump sucking it dry before it can fill and get the bubbles out of suspension. MY system is below, shiny tank on the right is my reservoir. Pump is below that and exchanger out front.
I had a smaller intercooler and a lower reservoir that were a pain in the *** to get bled the first time around. I ended up drilling and tapping a bleeder screw into the top of the intercooler end tank. It made it a breeze to bleed and once it was bled, the system stayed primed until I opened the reservoir cap. It can be a pain in the *** if your cap isn't the highest point. With my system in my first post, I had to siphon the whole system to prime the pump the first time startup. The Bosch really doesn't suck well.
yea. I did the same thing. I drilled and tapped the top corner of the IC and ran a small length of hose wiht a TEE (rubber cap is my bleed/fill port) at the back of the firewall in the top of the pic. that 3/8" bleed line is Tee'd into the 3/4" ID return hose that goes back to the tank. I fill the system via the tank till its full to that point and circulate the pump alittle, then fill from the highest point bleed tee, once fuid comes out of the tank opening I plug it up and then fill till it comes out of the Tee. Wasn't that bad for me. By my pump is also not pushing alot of flow so its alittle easier.
Here is some stuff I found on the net about flow graphs of most of the main stream pumps. The EWP 115 is on there. The issue is I dont know the pressure of my system.
Added cost/complexity. Looking at two -16 male oring to -12AN male $14 each, plus -12 Hose ends... I would say $50 in just fittings.
What happens when you use such a high flow pump on a closed 2 gallon system? Will it create so much air with turbulance/restriction?
Wasn't your budget $250? You can get the pump for $200 shipped on ebay. If you want to be cheap then you can get 1" thread to 3/4" barb brass fittings for pretty cheap.
It will just work better, people use the EMP pump on small closed systems with great results. The EWP150 is basically the same flow for less then half the price.
Wasn't your budget $250? You can get the pump for $200 shipped on ebay. If you want to be cheap then you can get 1" thread to 3/4" barb brass fittings for pretty cheap.
It will just work better, people use the EMP pump on small closed systems with great results. The EWP150 is basically the same flow for less then half the price.
Yea I would be comfortable spending up to $250... doesnt meant i want to! lol. but I agree. I thought the EWP 115 and EWP 150 had different size inlet/outlets? The both have the same 1" NPT threads? If thats the case I can get $20 worth of hose barbs and slap the pump cost for like $220 total and if it flows the same as the EMP pump or than 5GPM at pressure I'd be cool with that.
So I've been looking at pumps the last few days and haven't fully made up my mind yet.
I'm worried about running the EWP150 given that all my hose sizes are .75" ID and I only have a 1 gallon reservoir tank above it to feed it, total system is like 2 gallons. Plus all the data I've found on the net puts the flow low around 6psi. But my main thing is I would be running it at 100% and with necked down fittings.
I've been looking at the CWA50 which is a peirburg pump and close to the ZR1 pump and proven but they are mucho $. I've also been looking at the Davis Craig EBP40 which is a brushless motor designed as a booster pump so it can handle alittle more pressure and still flow. It flows 9.7gpm at 0psi and like 7-8gpm at 10psi which is more than any stocker. That would give me 4x the waterflow I probably have currently. The EBP40 is harder to find but comes with 3/4" inlet/outlets and will fit my space better.
05-18-2017, 12:39 PM
Lets talk water intercooler pumps! 
