Link to pics of my alky install
Link to pics of my alky install Most of you know I've been putting an alky kit on the car. Finished it up and also just got my website somewhat working, the pics are over here:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/187711-installed-alkycontrol-system.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/187711-installed-alkycontrol-system.html
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 1
From: Bellevue, Wa
one bit of advice.
it's better to have the pump mounted lower than the tank.
gravity is not your friend the way you set things up. the fluid can flow away from the feed on the pump the way you set it up instead of towards it and when you kick things on you could be pumping air instead of alky.
potential disaster.
my $.02
it's better to have the pump mounted lower than the tank.
gravity is not your friend the way you set things up. the fluid can flow away from the feed on the pump the way you set it up instead of towards it and when you kick things on you could be pumping air instead of alky.
potential disaster.
my $.02
Originally Posted by Blackbird
one bit of advice.
it's better to have the pump mounted lower than the tank.
it's better to have the pump mounted lower than the tank.
Razor OK'd the install, I had sent him a pic early on. I'll ask him again. He does like to see the nozzle higher than the tank.
I'm gonna try to mount mine in the washer resevoir. I actually already opened the hole up and fit the pump there.......will have to see if it seals and all before I go further. Razors kit is supposed to be da shiznit
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 1
From: Bellevue, Wa
I have never experienced it since I never set mine up that way.
Just think about it though. Logic says it's not a good idea
Up to you, I am just throwing out a caution. I can tell you I would never run it that way.
Just think about it though. Logic says it's not a good idea
Up to you, I am just throwing out a caution. I can tell you I would never run it that way.
I don't think the pump loses it's prime if that is the concern. Once the pump is primed the height can't be an issue - these pumps were made to be mounted on top of a rather large tank according to Razor.
If I find out it's a problem I'll change it up - thanks for the heads-up.
If I find out it's a problem I'll change it up - thanks for the heads-up.
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Originally Posted by Drewman
Is that safe spraying alchy upstream of the MAF like that?
It seems like you're spraying a flammable substance right past some pretty hot wires.
It seems like you're spraying a flammable substance right past some pretty hot wires.
take another look - it's downstream and in front of the TB
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Originally Posted by DaveSchott
take another look - it's downstream and in front of the TB
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,937
Likes: 0
From: "Tr"Asheville
That's what he's getting at, you should be spraying it after the MAF, in the 3rd pic you have it spraying right before your IAT sensor. Other than that looks pretty good, is this a DIY setup or did you buy a kit? If a kit how much did you pay for it? When does it turn on and how do you have that setup?
-Sly
-Sly
Originally Posted by slyws6
That's what he's getting at, you should be spraying it after the MAF, in the 3rd pic you have it spraying right before your IAT sensor. -Sly
Originally Posted by Drewman
Take home message as always is " I'm an idiot."
slyws6, the IAT is in front of the MAF in the "butt" pipe. the alky nozzle is feed by the braided line between the maf and the tb. This is Julio's a.k.a. Razor's kit at www.alkycontrol.com. It is a progressive controller kit currently set to come on at 3psi. I used slightly differnt components that the Buick kit, like a 2 bar sensor since a stock incon can't see more than 14 psi. You'd need to get a quote from him but I think I paid roughly 400.
TECH Resident
Joined: Jun 2004
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On turbocharged imports the current trend is a small fuel cell of alcohol and solenoids on the return and feed of the fuel rail(s)...
This switches the entire fuel system from gas to alcohol and back again. Most people use a pressure switch to kick it on at a given boost level..
On a NA car it could be done but I'd have to think out the triggering strategy youd need to program the PCM for a little more injector duty since you need to inject more of the fuel. Any way I have ran a turbo car on E85 (115 octane) it beats VP116 race gas Hp and $ wise..
It's slick... Run on 87 crap then floor it and switch to 115 for about what you buy 92-93 octane for....
This switches the entire fuel system from gas to alcohol and back again. Most people use a pressure switch to kick it on at a given boost level..
On a NA car it could be done but I'd have to think out the triggering strategy youd need to program the PCM for a little more injector duty since you need to inject more of the fuel. Any way I have ran a turbo car on E85 (115 octane) it beats VP116 race gas Hp and $ wise..
It's slick... Run on 87 crap then floor it and switch to 115 for about what you buy 92-93 octane for....
Pump Location is not an Issue
Originally Posted by V8_DSM_V8again
On turbocharged imports the current trend is a small fuel cell of alcohol and solenoids on the return and feed of the fuel rail(s)...
That is slick - if the difference between gas and alky could somehow be adjusted for in the Ls1 pcm, and the rails fill with alky quick enough, it seems like a great method. Who wants to volunteer
OK to paraphrase Razor, Blackbird's concerns are not founded:
" The pump has a built in check valve so it keeps its
prime. Its designed to go on top of a tank 3 feet
above it, spraying insectides on farms. If it lost its
prime... the farmers would be really really Pissed
"
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
From: Downers Grove,IL
The pump can lose it's prime if not gravity fed over time. Trust me. I have done ton's of bench testing with those pumps! They can lose prime and even become air locked now and then especially if you ever run it dry.
The check valve is designed to hold output line pressure once in use.
If the Farmer while doing spot spraying loses his prime and has to wait a second or 2 for the pump to regain prime and build pressure, well he might get annoyed.
But if your relying on the alky to stop detonation and it did somehow lose prime, well you may have a few more problems than just being annoyed .
It's aways good practice to have the pump gravity fed.
Just my .02
Steve
The check valve is designed to hold output line pressure once in use.
If the Farmer while doing spot spraying loses his prime and has to wait a second or 2 for the pump to regain prime and build pressure, well he might get annoyed.
But if your relying on the alky to stop detonation and it did somehow lose prime, well you may have a few more problems than just being annoyed
.It's aways good practice to have the pump gravity fed.
Just my .02
Steve
thats a nice install.. and nice tank. how many qts is that?
what kind of beneifit do you hope the progressive controller is going to give?
have you used the sytem yet? you should enjoy it.
i need to get some pics of my install.. was trying to keep it quiet at first, but i'm too happy about the results... i use the stock washer reservoir, have an 'on' led and a level sensor hooked to a 'low' led. the pickup is dead at the bottom of the tank, and the pump is mounted forward of the tank on the bumper support. this puts the inlet to the pump just lower than the exit from the tank. i also have a one way diaphagm to keep primed and keep boost from ever blowing back through. my pump is set to 220psi and i have a single nozzle now but moving to the dual when i get off my butt. i just have a relay to turn on the pump triggered by my e-boost at 4psi. the one nozzle i spray now is 625ml per minute i think and the second i'm puttin in is 375. i have a loose version of the snow kit stage 1
what kind of beneifit do you hope the progressive controller is going to give?
have you used the sytem yet? you should enjoy it.
i need to get some pics of my install.. was trying to keep it quiet at first, but i'm too happy about the results... i use the stock washer reservoir, have an 'on' led and a level sensor hooked to a 'low' led. the pickup is dead at the bottom of the tank, and the pump is mounted forward of the tank on the bumper support. this puts the inlet to the pump just lower than the exit from the tank. i also have a one way diaphagm to keep primed and keep boost from ever blowing back through. my pump is set to 220psi and i have a single nozzle now but moving to the dual when i get off my butt. i just have a relay to turn on the pump triggered by my e-boost at 4psi. the one nozzle i spray now is 625ml per minute i think and the second i'm puttin in is 375. i have a loose version of the snow kit stage 1
Guys, thanks. Considering all the wires, relays, etc. added between the alky system and the 2-step I'm pretty pleased with the results. obviously need a little help with the dressing around the scanmaster and wideband, but that is a winter project.
Steve - point well taken. Anyone with a f.i. car is unlikely to just turn the key and go. I check the tank and hit the overide button to make sure the alky flows before i pull out of the drive way. it shows up on the wideband and you can hear the engine start to sputter. If you plan to launch the car, grounding the violet controller lead will throttle back the pump to a couple psi so the line is feeding a trickle. this can be done with a signal from a 2-step or transbrake and using a relay. Then when you launch the alky operation returns to normal.
I think the tank is 3 to 3 1/2 qts.
It's hard to determine the true benefit (or need) of the progressive system without some insturmented tests. my gut feel was to add it because when i get into boost i don't always see 10 psi. I've just taken the car out twice since the install and have just barely burned off the 100 octane, so i need to experiment a little running 93. Of course what should happen is a trip to a load-bearing dyno so we can tune this **** properly. the a/f ratio is coming up in the 10 to 12 range, but the scanmaster reported .2 (point 2) knock on the last run...and I have an ses to look at.
I'm just happy i can drive the thing again
Steve - point well taken. Anyone with a f.i. car is unlikely to just turn the key and go. I check the tank and hit the overide button to make sure the alky flows before i pull out of the drive way. it shows up on the wideband and you can hear the engine start to sputter. If you plan to launch the car, grounding the violet controller lead will throttle back the pump to a couple psi so the line is feeding a trickle. this can be done with a signal from a 2-step or transbrake and using a relay. Then when you launch the alky operation returns to normal.
I think the tank is 3 to 3 1/2 qts.
It's hard to determine the true benefit (or need) of the progressive system without some insturmented tests. my gut feel was to add it because when i get into boost i don't always see 10 psi. I've just taken the car out twice since the install and have just barely burned off the 100 octane, so i need to experiment a little running 93. Of course what should happen is a trip to a load-bearing dyno so we can tune this **** properly. the a/f ratio is coming up in the 10 to 12 range, but the scanmaster reported .2 (point 2) knock on the last run...and I have an ses to look at.
I'm just happy i can drive the thing again
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
From: Downers Grove,IL
Steve - point well taken. Anyone with a f.i. car is unlikely to just turn the key and go. I check the tank and hit the overide button to make sure the alky flows before i pull out of the drive way. it shows up on the wideband and you can hear the engine start to sputter. If you plan to launch the car, grounding the violet controller lead will throttle back the pump to a couple psi so the line is feeding a trickle. this can be done with a signal from a 2-step or transbrake and using a relay. Then when you launch the alky operation returns to normal.
On my last system I built I also had a manual prime/activation button and an indicator light that would only come on unless the pump was making pressure.
Having a supercharger my boost is totally rpm dependant. So I never really saw the need for a progressive controller up to a 15GPH flow rate(1000ml per min).
With that flow rate coming on at 4700rpm( the minimum possible wot rpm with my converter), I just used ls1edit to create a PE ramp up table to allow for a flat A-F curve to redline. I thought it worked well, as the highest flow of alky was at the TQ peak that way.
Over 15GPH I think a staged or progressive system is the way to go.