My first single turbo build
02-28-2019, 06:00 PM
#261
This gets even more important when you are trying to motivate a 4000 pound car, with a motor that makes diesel like torque. Using op's situation as an example, there's clear and overly abundant evidence of this. Op, I know you've said you've built some of these 60e's for people who are in the single digits, but how many weigh 4k, vs cars that are stripped down race cars that get driven on the street? I've said this in another thread, but I challenge anybody, next time you are at the track and you see someone make an impressive hit, 9s and let's say 145+ (fully equipped GENUINE street car), see how many 4l60e's you find in these guys transmission tunnels. Also ask how long since they've had to go back through it. There's a good reason why you see 4l80, Powerglide, Th400, Th350 as the main transmission of choice, in anything that is making any kind of power.
normal weight of 3500
+100 for iron block
-50-70 estimated for cheap drag wheels
+30 for 12 bolt rear
+100 for huge speaker box and stereo sytem he refused to remove
+280 ish for him
50= lbsroll cage
so 4,060lbs minus wheel weight equals 3990lbs
we had the sonnax shafts and drum in his (and a bunch of other crap that i have too) he made 750 to the tire and IIRC was trapping 142-145 at the time. 9.xx i think he got down to like 9.20ish. he broke the 12 bolt as much or more than the trans. hell, the turbo 400 he put in broke the first time in a shorter time than the 4l60. The 4l60 would last almost a year (bout 10 months on average) before we had something break. It was usually a planet that would break. The sonnax shafts held it, my car isnt near as violent as his was and his was alot faster. we almost put the sonnax 6 pinion carrier in but he was tired of putting money in it and the car kept getting faster and faster. it was a car he drove alot at the time and he abused it. he lived a few minutes from me and i'd hear him making hits on the back road a good bit.
with that being said, one part of me wants to do a 4l80 and be done with it. But the other part of me has not much drive or energy at this point to do all that needs to be done to made it work, nor do i have the funds right now. I also dont want the car down for a long time. So as of right now, it think my decision is i'm going to fix this junk and go back with it and maybe next year (my wife is supposed to be taking a higher paying job next year which will take a bit of financial burden off me) i'll be able to under take it. I mean hell, it lasted for a decent amount of time with a cheap budget build i had originally done. Had the output shaft not broke, i'd still be riding now. all the clutches looked good still, the over run had a little heat in them but werent worn. The low reverse drum snap ring popped off but i think that was because of the carnage the shaft explosion caused. And yes, it looked like an explosion, multiple large pieces of shaft went all over. I know most if you guys are gonna think i'm an idiot for trying it again, and maybe i am, but i think i got a bonk shaft that was brittle from being induction hardened.
03-01-2019, 03:38 AM
#262
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
I'm going to answer this honestly, and not trying to prove anyone wrong. I always try to call a spade a spade. I had one car that sticks out in my mind. It was a 4th gen camaro, that was full weight, iron block 418 or 408 on alot of gas. He claimed his race weight was right at 4000lbs. Now i know alot of you are going to call bullshit. but factor in this:
normal weight of 3500
+100 for iron block
-50-70 estimated for cheap drag wheels
+30 for 12 bolt rear
+100 for huge speaker box and stereo sytem he refused to remove
+280 ish for him
50= lbsroll cage
so 4,060lbs minus wheel weight equals 3990lbs
we had the sonnax shafts and drum in his (and a bunch of other crap that i have too) he made 750 to the tire and IIRC was trapping 142-145 at the time. 9.xx i think he got down to like 9.20ish. he broke the 12 bolt as much or more than the trans. hell, the turbo 400 he put in broke the first time in a shorter time than the 4l60. The 4l60 would last almost a year (bout 10 months on average) before we had something break. It was usually a planet that would break. The sonnax shafts held it, my car isnt near as violent as his was and his was alot faster. we almost put the sonnax 6 pinion carrier in but he was tired of putting money in it and the car kept getting faster and faster. it was a car he drove alot at the time and he abused it. he lived a few minutes from me and i'd hear him making hits on the back road a good bit.
with that being said, one part of me wants to do a 4l80 and be done with it. But the other part of me has not much drive or energy at this point to do all that needs to be done to made it work, nor do i have the funds right now. I also dont want the car down for a long time. So as of right now, it think my decision is i'm going to fix this junk and go back with it and maybe next year (my wife is supposed to be taking a higher paying job next year which will take a bit of financial burden off me) i'll be able to under take it. I mean hell, it lasted for a decent amount of time with a cheap budget build i had originally done. Had the output shaft not broke, i'd still be riding now. all the clutches looked good still, the over run had a little heat in them but werent worn. The low reverse drum snap ring popped off but i think that was because of the carnage the shaft explosion caused. And yes, it looked like an explosion, multiple large pieces of shaft went all over. I know most if you guys are gonna think i'm an idiot for trying it again, and maybe i am, but i think i got a bonk shaft that was brittle from being induction hardened.
normal weight of 3500
+100 for iron block
-50-70 estimated for cheap drag wheels
+30 for 12 bolt rear
+100 for huge speaker box and stereo sytem he refused to remove
+280 ish for him
50= lbsroll cage
so 4,060lbs minus wheel weight equals 3990lbs
we had the sonnax shafts and drum in his (and a bunch of other crap that i have too) he made 750 to the tire and IIRC was trapping 142-145 at the time. 9.xx i think he got down to like 9.20ish. he broke the 12 bolt as much or more than the trans. hell, the turbo 400 he put in broke the first time in a shorter time than the 4l60. The 4l60 would last almost a year (bout 10 months on average) before we had something break. It was usually a planet that would break. The sonnax shafts held it, my car isnt near as violent as his was and his was alot faster. we almost put the sonnax 6 pinion carrier in but he was tired of putting money in it and the car kept getting faster and faster. it was a car he drove alot at the time and he abused it. he lived a few minutes from me and i'd hear him making hits on the back road a good bit.
with that being said, one part of me wants to do a 4l80 and be done with it. But the other part of me has not much drive or energy at this point to do all that needs to be done to made it work, nor do i have the funds right now. I also dont want the car down for a long time. So as of right now, it think my decision is i'm going to fix this junk and go back with it and maybe next year (my wife is supposed to be taking a higher paying job next year which will take a bit of financial burden off me) i'll be able to under take it. I mean hell, it lasted for a decent amount of time with a cheap budget build i had originally done. Had the output shaft not broke, i'd still be riding now. all the clutches looked good still, the over run had a little heat in them but werent worn. The low reverse drum snap ring popped off but i think that was because of the carnage the shaft explosion caused. And yes, it looked like an explosion, multiple large pieces of shaft went all over. I know most if you guys are gonna think i'm an idiot for trying it again, and maybe i am, but i think i got a bonk shaft that was brittle from being induction hardened.
I've had a turbo buick, but never a turbo V8 so it's possible my stroker/nitrous car and now my procharger car may not be as hard on a 4l60e as a turbo LS though.
If you are going to end up running more boost and take the car to the strip you are going to continue breaking stuff in the driveline though it's just part of it. I don't think you are an idiot, but my opinion has always been buy once cry once. I'd rather save until I can afford to put good stuff in it then continuously be working on it because I'm breaking. Of course nothing is infallible so you still can potentially break things, but you can limit that by using good stuff. Even the junk yard LS guys usually have really good stuff from the trans on back it's only the long block they cheap out on.
03-01-2019, 01:28 PM
#263
What broke this time or have you had it apart yet? I've had a 4l60e built by finish line last over 100 passes behind a 408 and then another 100+ passes behind it with a 150 shot. The car was a daily also and I ran the snot out of that car on the street as well. I actually hurt the motor after some passes with a 200 shot after all of that. Had the motor rebuilt and drove it again for another year before selling the car in 2008ish or 09 can't remember exactly. It was a 2004 GTO and the guy I sold it to just sold it a couple years ago with the same trans still in it. He never raced and I doubt he even really ran it hard though. My current trans is awesome as well, but I don't have very many passes on it yet.
I've had a turbo buick, but never a turbo V8 so it's possible my stroker/nitrous car and now my procharger car may not be as hard on a 4l60e as a turbo LS though.
If you are going to end up running more boost and take the car to the strip you are going to continue breaking stuff in the driveline though it's just part of it. I don't think you are an idiot, but my opinion has always been buy once cry once. I'd rather save until I can afford to put good stuff in it then continuously be working on it because I'm breaking. Of course nothing is infallible so you still can potentially break things, but you can limit that by using good stuff. Even the junk yard LS guys usually have really good stuff from the trans on back it's only the long block they cheap out on.
I've had a turbo buick, but never a turbo V8 so it's possible my stroker/nitrous car and now my procharger car may not be as hard on a 4l60e as a turbo LS though.
If you are going to end up running more boost and take the car to the strip you are going to continue breaking stuff in the driveline though it's just part of it. I don't think you are an idiot, but my opinion has always been buy once cry once. I'd rather save until I can afford to put good stuff in it then continuously be working on it because I'm breaking. Of course nothing is infallible so you still can potentially break things, but you can limit that by using good stuff. Even the junk yard LS guys usually have really good stuff from the trans on back it's only the long block they cheap out on.
I havent pulled it apart yet, I have two other units on my bench i had to get done for some daily driver stuff. nothing special. I think either the input shaft exploded or the pump rotor exploded. The more I think about it, the more the rotor makes sense. When I fix it, its getting sonnax 300m shafts and a billet rotor.
03-03-2019, 08:10 PM
#264
And I wanted to add. I do have a spare motor, aluminum gen 3 5.3. My buddy let me know today he has a gen 4 5.3 that he bought just for the block. He said to come get it and take the rotating assembly. Sweet. I kinda want to put forged pistons in it while it’s going together tho.
03-03-2019, 08:27 PM
#265
And I wanted to add. I do have a spare motor, aluminum gen 3 5.3. My buddy let me know today he has a gen 4 5.3 that he bought just for the block. He said to come get it and take the rotating assembly. Sweet. I kinda want to put forged pistons in it while it’s going together tho.
03-08-2019, 04:23 AM
#268
Power plus 4l60 equals mangled parts. The only way around this problem is to cut half the weight off the gto or use a different transmission. Since I don't see you losing 2000lbs while keeping a good car, you have to change trans options. With the absolute best of everything, the 4l60 will still puke a tailshaft and housing on a heavy ride. You are still thousands of dollars from finding that out the hard way. Deal with it now.
03-08-2019, 09:27 AM
#271
LOLOLOLOL
i'm having thoughts. I cant deny it.
I know where an 80e is, I talked to yank and if i send my converter back they will give me credit towards an 80e stall. I have some parts I could sell out this trans. I dunno, its tempting but i want to get my car back running. cleaning it up and putting sonnax shafts in it is the easiest and cheapest and quickest option. had i had the stock shaft still in it, i dont think i'd be in this situation.
i'm having thoughts. I cant deny it.
I know where an 80e is, I talked to yank and if i send my converter back they will give me credit towards an 80e stall. I have some parts I could sell out this trans. I dunno, its tempting but i want to get my car back running. cleaning it up and putting sonnax shafts in it is the easiest and cheapest and quickest option. had i had the stock shaft still in it, i dont think i'd be in this situation.
03-08-2019, 09:33 AM
#272
LOLOLOLOL
i'm having thoughts. I cant deny it.
I know where an 80e is, I talked to yank and if i send my converter back they will give me credit towards an 80e stall. I have some parts I could sell out this trans. I dunno, its tempting but i want to get my car back running. cleaning it up and putting sonnax shafts in it is the easiest and cheapest and quickest option. had i had the stock shaft still in it, i dont think i'd be in this situation.
i'm having thoughts. I cant deny it.
I know where an 80e is, I talked to yank and if i send my converter back they will give me credit towards an 80e stall. I have some parts I could sell out this trans. I dunno, its tempting but i want to get my car back running. cleaning it up and putting sonnax shafts in it is the easiest and cheapest and quickest option. had i had the stock shaft still in it, i dont think i'd be in this situation.
03-08-2019, 01:25 PM
#274
TECH Apprentice
sumtimes you gotta know when to quit ...
03-08-2019, 02:05 PM
#276
TECH Apprentice
03-08-2019, 02:58 PM
#277
its all good! i just want him to build something that will last.
i know the headache of trans blowing. i mean shoot at least you guys got space. i dont have space in the schassis if the trans is messed up. the whole damn thing gotta come lol!
hopefully everything works out thought !!! :prayers::
ricky bobby never quit !
i know the headache of trans blowing. i mean shoot at least you guys got space. i dont have space in the schassis if the trans is messed up. the whole damn thing gotta come lol!
hopefully everything works out thought !!! :prayers::
ricky bobby never quit !
03-08-2019, 03:15 PM
#278
Look my dudes. You are right. I should give up on the 60. No doubt. It’s a weak *** piece of ****. However. I like to drive my car. And I’m going insane not driving it. I know you guys are gonna think I’m dumb. And I’m being hard headed. But I have good reasons why. This is how I’m looking at it. I can spend $300 on an input shaft and have my car running. Or I can spend thousands to upgrade. Which would take me a few more months. Car sitting. Wife bitching because it’s in jack stands (I’m not putting it on the ground, it takes 30 minutes to get it up high like I have it...long story) then after I stop breaking transmissions, I’ll start breaks rear end parts. And it’s 3 grand to upgrade everything in the back. I don’t have that kind of cash right now. Things will be getting better for me next year. Without going into details of my financial situation, I’ve had several expenses increase that were unexpected and put a burden on me. Next year some changes are being made. So I’ve got to wing it for now. If I was better off financially, it would be getting an 80e and rear axle upgrades and a built motor. Poor guy on a budget trying to go fast(ish) kind of thing. So bear with me fellas, eventually I’ll get there. Luckily labor is free for me. And a lot of parts I have. So it’s not that bad at this point. I know what I should do, but I’m doing what I CAN do....for now.
03-09-2019, 04:02 AM
#279
TECH Apprentice
i can relate to that kfxguy . i feel your pain . good luck on this rebuild . id lower the boost sum . keep it safe so you can drive it .
04-07-2019, 02:32 PM
#280
Well my fellow brethren. More fun ****. OMG.
So I had the starter rebuilt while it was apart. The gear was torn up on the face of it so the guy grinded the damage smooth. Said there plenty more gear left to grab the flex plate. Well now its hanging up almost everytime I start it. So it sounds like some old raggedy junk. No problem, I picked up another starter. I'll built one good one myself. Put the good gear out the spare starter.
Then for the fun crap. For some reason at 5200 rpm I'm leaning out badly. Not sure why. I give it more fuel. Don't help. It's like a 15:1 afr. I immediately let out when I see it. Damnit. My duty cycle on my injectors is at 99%. Wtf. I'm thinking either the fuel pump is crapping out on me or the fuel pump is leaking at the oring in the bucket. Flock. I gotta check the fuel pressure to see what's up. I loaned out my gauge lol.
I have 60lb seimens injectors and a aeromotive 340 pump..................EDIT the leaning out was because the fuel bucket was running out of fuel when I got below half a tank fuel level. I ended up fixing it. I'll post at the end of the thread.
So I had the starter rebuilt while it was apart. The gear was torn up on the face of it so the guy grinded the damage smooth. Said there plenty more gear left to grab the flex plate. Well now its hanging up almost everytime I start it. So it sounds like some old raggedy junk. No problem, I picked up another starter. I'll built one good one myself. Put the good gear out the spare starter.
Then for the fun crap. For some reason at 5200 rpm I'm leaning out badly. Not sure why. I give it more fuel. Don't help. It's like a 15:1 afr. I immediately let out when I see it. Damnit. My duty cycle on my injectors is at 99%. Wtf. I'm thinking either the fuel pump is crapping out on me or the fuel pump is leaking at the oring in the bucket. Flock. I gotta check the fuel pressure to see what's up. I loaned out my gauge lol.
I have 60lb seimens injectors and a aeromotive 340 pump..................EDIT the leaning out was because the fuel bucket was running out of fuel when I got below half a tank fuel level. I ended up fixing it. I'll post at the end of the thread.
Last edited by Kfxguy; 08-23-2019 at 04:20 PM.