Projected horsepower
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,890
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Check the lifters for scoring and cracks where the squared off part ( where the wheel sits ) meets the side. I've had some crack there. Otherwise, they'd be good to go, as well as the trays. Oil pump, I'd pull the cover and inspect it internally for scoring, if all looks good, put it back together and run it.
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From: Louisiana
Check the lifters for scoring and cracks where the squared off part ( where the wheel sits ) meets the side. I've had some crack there. Otherwise, they'd be good to go, as well as the trays. Oil pump, I'd pull the cover and inspect it internally for scoring, if all looks good, put it back together and run it.
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From: Louisiana
Went to see the motor today, crank is in and he was gapping the rings. He convinced me to get a new oil pump(mellings 355) and lifters jb2079. Said with everything in the motor brand new whats the sense in going ahead and having the sense of security in knowing everything is new and ready to go.
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From: Louisiana
What kind of wastegates are you guys running? I'm thinking about getting a new one since I’ve pretty much replaced everything from the original CX Racing kit, and the wastegate is one of the last parts left. I’m looking at the VS Racing 60mm wastegate — it has two top ports and two bottom ports, which would work well for me. I could run the turbo reference to one of the bottom ports, cap the other, and use the two top ports for the MAC valves and dome pressure sensor. I’m planning to stick with my 20 psi setup. If I put a 10 psi spring in the wastegate and set my onboard air system to 20 psi dome pressure, that should hold me right at 20 psi of boost, correct?
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,890
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
So, I've been learning how to tune with dome pressure... it's not cut and dry. I'm using a VS Racing 44MM wastegate on my setup. They recommended I switch to a 50MM, but after reconfiguring how I was routing the exhaust out, I no longer have boost creep issues. I'm running a 5 PSI spring, and with 12 PSI dome, I do see roughly 17 PSI of boost, but I'm also tuning using boost vs. dome control which complicates things. Keep in mind, this is my first turbo setup and my first time tuning. When I tried to turn up dome pressure, I went up by 3 lbs. but I didn't make any more boost. I was already on the ragged edge of running out of injector, so I didn't try to go up any higher. Basically, what I'm telling you is it's not linear. Some combos might use a 5 lb. spring and 10 PSI dome gives them 20 PSI boost. Another one might need 20 PSI dome to make 10 PSI of boost. What I will say is, my turbo DEFINITELY lights off faster with dome control. I was barely able to build 10PSI in 1st gear because I have 4.30 gears in my axle, but with dome control, I can hit 16 in 1st gear. It ramps up nicely and levels out fairly well in every gear. Has a slight dip in the center ( like less than .5 PSI ) but overall it's solid. I still have a ways to go with tuning it, but I'm really glad I switched to CO2 over just running off a spring.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 627
From: Louisiana
So, I've been learning how to tune with dome pressure... it's not cut and dry. I'm using a VS Racing 44MM wastegate on my setup. They recommended I switch to a 50MM, but after reconfiguring how I was routing the exhaust out, I no longer have boost creep issues. I'm running a 5 PSI spring, and with 12 PSI dome, I do see roughly 17 PSI of boost, but I'm also tuning using boost vs. dome control which complicates things. Keep in mind, this is my first turbo setup and my first time tuning. When I tried to turn up dome pressure, I went up by 3 lbs. but I didn't make any more boost. I was already on the ragged edge of running out of injector, so I didn't try to go up any higher. Basically, what I'm telling you is it's not linear. Some combos might use a 5 lb. spring and 10 PSI dome gives them 20 PSI boost. Another one might need 20 PSI dome to make 10 PSI of boost. What I will say is, my turbo DEFINITELY lights off faster with dome control. I was barely able to build 10PSI in 1st gear because I have 4.30 gears in my axle, but with dome control, I can hit 16 in 1st gear. It ramps up nicely and levels out fairly well in every gear. Has a slight dip in the center ( like less than .5 PSI ) but overall it's solid. I still have a ways to go with tuning it, but I'm really glad I switched to CO2 over just running off a spring.
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Verdad Gallardo Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,890
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From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
I was messing around with boost control the last couple of days and I quickly figured out that it's almost pointless to try to tune high boost on the street. I've never dynoed my car, so I have no idea how much power it makes, but at 17-18PSI it blows the tires off in every gear, lol. It's fun, but that's gonna get expensive quick with the cost of M/Ts. I went out on the freeway and shifted down into 4th at 70 MPH, punched it, and it drove into a burnout at 80 MPH. That was a humbling experience. I went back and turned it down to a more reasonable 13.5 PSI. I'm going to order a Strange chromoly pinion yoke today so I can finally get my 3.54 gears installed and have the ability to mount a reluctor wheel for driveshaft speed. 4.30s are just too much.
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Joined: Oct 2022
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From: Louisiana
I was messing around with boost control the last couple of days and I quickly figured out that it's almost pointless to try to tune high boost on the street. I've never dynoed my car, so I have no idea how much power it makes, but at 17-18PSI it blows the tires off in every gear, lol. It's fun, but that's gonna get expensive quick with the cost of M/Ts. I went out on the freeway and shifted down into 4th at 70 MPH, punched it, and it drove into a burnout at 80 MPH. That was a humbling experience. I went back and turned it down to a more reasonable 13.5 PSI. I'm going to order a Strange chromoly pinion yoke today so I can finally get my 3.54 gears installed and have the ability to mount a reluctor wheel for driveshaft speed. 4.30s are just too much.
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Joined: Oct 2022
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From: Louisiana
So the guy putting my shortblock together sent me these numbers. Man this the kind of stuff i need to learn because I dont even know what this means
Crank bearing diameter Tolerance
#1- 2.0990------ 2.1015 ------- .0025
#2- 2.0990 -------2.1015------- .0026
#3- 2.0986------- 2.1015-------.0024
#4- 2.0988------- 2.1017 -------.0029
#5- 2.0989-------- 2.1015------- .0024
#6- 2.0989 --------2.1015 -------.0024
#7- 2.0988--------- 2.1018------- .0024
#8- 2.0989--------- 2.1017--------.0028
Crank bearing diameter Tolerance
#1- 2.0990------ 2.1015 ------- .0025
#2- 2.0990 -------2.1015------- .0026
#3- 2.0986------- 2.1015-------.0024
#4- 2.0988------- 2.1017 -------.0029
#5- 2.0989-------- 2.1015------- .0024
#6- 2.0989 --------2.1015 -------.0024
#7- 2.0988--------- 2.1018------- .0024
#8- 2.0989--------- 2.1017--------.0028
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,890
Likes: 1,137
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
That's the bearing clearance for your rods, which I would say is a little excessive. Steve Morris set my clearances at .0022-.0023 on the rods and .0026-.0027 on the mains, with the thrust at .0030. My crank measured out closer to 2.100", though. You may want to try a different set of rod bearings to see if you can tighten them up slightly, especially #4 and #8.
Those are fine.
The Clevite CB663HN rod bearing is a pretty common, performance, standard size LS bearing that I've pushed to >1000 flywheel on 3 engines with no issues. I like Clevite/Mahl because they actually publish their tolerance requirements. Their specified min/max is 0.001 to 0.003 (https://lspartsdirect.com/clevite-ma...g-ls1ls2ls3ls6). Also, if you pull the Mahle technical guidance (https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/me...l77-1-205r.pdf) you'll see they will park you in the 0.0025 to 0.0035 range as a starter.
Also, if it helps, the last 2 builds I setup were at ~2.5. I just pulled the bearings on one of those engines and they looked perfectly fine.
When you start getting within fractions of a thousands type of tolerances it starts to come down to how accurate your machine shops tools are and were they all measured on the same day with the same shop temperature, does the bearing have a coating, etc, etc... People on the forums get pretty excited about main and rod bearing clearances, but if you have built a handful of motors you will see that mains and rods will run fine all the way from 0.0008 up to 0.0035 - you just want to be on the bigger side with bigger power setups.
The Clevite CB663HN rod bearing is a pretty common, performance, standard size LS bearing that I've pushed to >1000 flywheel on 3 engines with no issues. I like Clevite/Mahl because they actually publish their tolerance requirements. Their specified min/max is 0.001 to 0.003 (https://lspartsdirect.com/clevite-ma...g-ls1ls2ls3ls6). Also, if you pull the Mahle technical guidance (https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/me...l77-1-205r.pdf) you'll see they will park you in the 0.0025 to 0.0035 range as a starter.
Also, if it helps, the last 2 builds I setup were at ~2.5. I just pulled the bearings on one of those engines and they looked perfectly fine.
When you start getting within fractions of a thousands type of tolerances it starts to come down to how accurate your machine shops tools are and were they all measured on the same day with the same shop temperature, does the bearing have a coating, etc, etc... People on the forums get pretty excited about main and rod bearing clearances, but if you have built a handful of motors you will see that mains and rods will run fine all the way from 0.0008 up to 0.0035 - you just want to be on the bigger side with bigger power setups.
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Joined: Oct 2022
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From: Louisiana
Those are fine.
The Clevite CB663HN rod bearing is a pretty common, performance, standard size LS bearing that I've pushed to >1000 flywheel on 3 engines with no issues. I like Clevite/Mahl because they actually publish their tolerance requirements. Their specified min/max is 0.001 to 0.003 (https://lspartsdirect.com/clevite-ma...g-ls1ls2ls3ls6). Also, if you pull the Mahle technical guidance (https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/me...l77-1-205r.pdf) you'll see they will park you in the 0.0025 to 0.0035 range as a starter.
Also, if it helps, the last 2 builds I setup were at ~2.5. I just pulled the bearings on one of those engines and they looked perfectly fine.
When you start getting within fractions of a thousands type of tolerances it starts to come down to how accurate your machine shops tools are and were they all measured on the same day with the same shop temperature, does the bearing have a coating, etc, etc... People on the forums get pretty excited about main and rod bearing clearances, but if you have built a handful of motors you will see that mains and rods will run fine all the way from 0.0008 up to 0.0035 - you just want to be on the bigger side with bigger power setups.
The Clevite CB663HN rod bearing is a pretty common, performance, standard size LS bearing that I've pushed to >1000 flywheel on 3 engines with no issues. I like Clevite/Mahl because they actually publish their tolerance requirements. Their specified min/max is 0.001 to 0.003 (https://lspartsdirect.com/clevite-ma...g-ls1ls2ls3ls6). Also, if you pull the Mahle technical guidance (https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/me...l77-1-205r.pdf) you'll see they will park you in the 0.0025 to 0.0035 range as a starter.
Also, if it helps, the last 2 builds I setup were at ~2.5. I just pulled the bearings on one of those engines and they looked perfectly fine.
When you start getting within fractions of a thousands type of tolerances it starts to come down to how accurate your machine shops tools are and were they all measured on the same day with the same shop temperature, does the bearing have a coating, etc, etc... People on the forums get pretty excited about main and rod bearing clearances, but if you have built a handful of motors you will see that mains and rods will run fine all the way from 0.0008 up to 0.0035 - you just want to be on the bigger side with bigger power setups.
Some folks insist on running the mains a little loose. I prefer the running mine a little tighter to encourage oil flow to the rods. However, ask 5 engine builders what the right clearance is and you'll get 11 opinions.
0.003 to 0.0035 is fine. Over 0.003 I think a high volume oil pump with restrictor push-rods is appropriate - otherwise, I find the idle oil pressure annoying.
0.003 to 0.0035 is fine. Over 0.003 I think a high volume oil pump with restrictor push-rods is appropriate - otherwise, I find the idle oil pressure annoying.
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From: Louisiana
Some folks insist on running the mains a little loose. I prefer the running mine a little tighter to encourage oil flow to the rods. However, ask 5 engine builders what the right clearance is and you'll get 11 opinions.
0.003 to 0.0035 is fine. Over 0.003 I think a high volume oil pump with restrictor push-rods is appropriate - otherwise, I find the idle oil pressure annoying.
0.003 to 0.0035 is fine. Over 0.003 I think a high volume oil pump with restrictor push-rods is appropriate - otherwise, I find the idle oil pressure annoying.
I stop at the Melling 10296 for flow. Usually the 355 (its the AFM/DOD pump) is for when you have other stuff going on - external cooler, 2 big turbos, etc... The 296 is 18% more than 295, while the 355 is 33% more flow than the 295.
If I was doing your setup, I would use the 10296 with the stock pressure spring w/ a Manton 3-piece 0.060 restrictor pushrod to limit drainback/pooling in the head issues. That way you get the same-ish flow as stock and a little bit better pressure at idle with the larger main clearances. You could do a 355, but unless you are running a bunch of external stuff that needs oil, I think it is overkill and you will just be on the relief spring the entire time spending some extra HP to move oil you aren't using.
If I was doing your setup, I would use the 10296 with the stock pressure spring w/ a Manton 3-piece 0.060 restrictor pushrod to limit drainback/pooling in the head issues. That way you get the same-ish flow as stock and a little bit better pressure at idle with the larger main clearances. You could do a 355, but unless you are running a bunch of external stuff that needs oil, I think it is overkill and you will just be on the relief spring the entire time spending some extra HP to move oil you aren't using.
Thread Starter
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 627
From: Louisiana
I stop at the Melling 10296 for flow. Usually the 355 (its the AFM/DOD pump) is for when you have other stuff going on - external cooler, 2 big turbos, etc... The 296 is 18% more than 295, while the 355 is 33% more flow than the 295.
If I was doing your setup, I would use the 10296 with the stock pressure spring w/ a Manton 3-piece 0.060 restrictor pushrod to limit drainback/pooling in the head issues. That way you get the same-ish flow as stock and a little bit better pressure at idle with the larger main clearances. You could do a 355, but unless you are running a bunch of external stuff that needs oil, I think it is overkill and you will just be on the relief spring the entire time spending some extra HP to move oil you aren't using.
If I was doing your setup, I would use the 10296 with the stock pressure spring w/ a Manton 3-piece 0.060 restrictor pushrod to limit drainback/pooling in the head issues. That way you get the same-ish flow as stock and a little bit better pressure at idle with the larger main clearances. You could do a 355, but unless you are running a bunch of external stuff that needs oil, I think it is overkill and you will just be on the relief spring the entire time spending some extra HP to move oil you aren't using.
