How much timing for stock power?
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How much timing for stock power? OK this sounds completely stupid, but how much timing should I reduce to have the same RWHP as without blower? Right now I run 17* at 5PSI.
Here the reason: the local police wil bust my butt big time if they catch me with a supercharger. It's forbitten to increase the engine power unless you declare it, at this point they will check power, pollution, safety and so on - all things that would never pass a test.
They will put my car on a dyno and give me a fine in proportion to the "additional forbidden" power
This fine would be at least a couple of $1000...
I have installed an hidden switch that simulates an high IAT and I programmed the PCM to reduce 11* of timing at that temperature.
Final timing = 6*.
At WOT I (of course!) feel an huge difference with the switch on or off - the car litterally makes a jump whet the temperature goes back to normal.
Is it enoug? Should I reduce more timing? I'm looking at 290 RWHP or similar - just what a 98 LS1 stock is making.
Thanks!
Stefano
Here the reason: the local police wil bust my butt big time if they catch me with a supercharger. It's forbitten to increase the engine power unless you declare it, at this point they will check power, pollution, safety and so on - all things that would never pass a test.
They will put my car on a dyno and give me a fine in proportion to the "additional forbidden" power
This fine would be at least a couple of $1000...
I have installed an hidden switch that simulates an high IAT and I programmed the PCM to reduce 11* of timing at that temperature.
Final timing = 6*.
At WOT I (of course!) feel an huge difference with the switch on or off - the car litterally makes a jump whet the temperature goes back to normal.
Is it enoug? Should I reduce more timing? I'm looking at 290 RWHP or similar - just what a 98 LS1 stock is making.
Thanks!
Stefano
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Maybe you could rig some kind of BOV or Bypass valve to your switch. When you flick the switch, then The BOV opens or the bypass stays open. I think you would have to have a blow through MAF to do this (after the valve), and your timing switch would have to add 10 degrees or so to get to stock.
I think your real problem is that the they are going to know it is a blower by how it sounds...
-Geoff
I think your real problem is that the they are going to know it is a blower by how it sounds...
-Geoff
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They will know because they will open the hood 
Sometimes the police decide to make a general technical check and stops every 20th car or so. Not everywhere, just on a certain road.
They check tires, safety belts... and if the car looks or sounds funny they look under the hood (!!)
They are not (so) stupid and they will see if the car revs up until 3000 rpm.
If I open the bypass valve the MAF will trow an huge amount of fuel in the engine.
It would be nice to cut the blower belt... but usually they take the car right away!
They won't see the high IAT because you need a scanner and you have to know what to look for (high temp, low timing, modified program).
There will be a code after the engine will cool down because the PCM compares all the temperature sensors to check them. But as said the police should have a scanner and know what to look for (they don't).
What else to reduce power?
Do I really have to worry about the cats? I was thinking that retarding timing would just reduce power but still burn the fuel as usual.
I don't want to go to the dyno just to check how bad the car is running!
Sometimes the police decide to make a general technical check and stops every 20th car or so. Not everywhere, just on a certain road.
They check tires, safety belts... and if the car looks or sounds funny they look under the hood (!!)
They are not (so) stupid and they will see if the car revs up until 3000 rpm.
If I open the bypass valve the MAF will trow an huge amount of fuel in the engine.
It would be nice to cut the blower belt... but usually they take the car right away!
They won't see the high IAT because you need a scanner and you have to know what to look for (high temp, low timing, modified program).
There will be a code after the engine will cool down because the PCM compares all the temperature sensors to check them. But as said the police should have a scanner and know what to look for (they don't).
What else to reduce power?
Do I really have to worry about the cats? I was thinking that retarding timing would just reduce power but still burn the fuel as usual.
I don't want to go to the dyno just to check how bad the car is running!
Originally Posted by tici
If I open the bypass valve the MAF will trow an huge amount of fuel in the engine.
As long as you have boost going into the engine, you are going to get more power. There is nothing that will change that without hurting the engine.
-Geoff
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I would have to agree, something like a controlled vacume leak and the switch to make it run correctly would be your best bet, on the engine overtemp map you can tune the fuel as well and make corrections tothe fuel to compensate for the diffrent airflow with the leak. You could easily use a solenoid to open a valve to leak the air out.
-Bryan
-Bryan
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From: Zurich - Switzerland
I know: to relocate the MAF would be better, also because the standard Vortech setup is a real intake-air-heater, but I should redo the piping and this sucks.
How does the MAF work when under boost? Is it as precise as in the suction tract?
So you think reducing timing won't remove enough power?
Here how it looks like
How does the MAF work when under boost? Is it as precise as in the suction tract?
So you think reducing timing won't remove enough power?
Here how it looks like
I would think you could just pull the piping that goes into the TB. The MAF will have air still passing through it to get a reading it just wont be boosting into the motor. It may not run perfect, but It would be your best bet to get back to stock hp without spending any money.
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I think I wasn't clear, it sounds like that:
I drive.
I see a police officer that pulls me out.
He asks my documents during another office looks at the car.
Because the second office sees one of those cars only every second month he's curious and ask me to turn on the engine.
He listen at the Corsa and at the strange noise from the hood.
He tells me to open the hood - the other guy did already saw in his PC how many speeding tickets I already have (a lot).
Hood is open: the officer calls the other guys: everyone is making a big smile!
The officer tells me to follow him - worst case another guy drives the car to the next test center...
No time to take the SC apart!
No time to remove whatever!
Only chance: some kind of button or lever or whatever to reduce the power as soon as I see the cops.
We pay taxes and insurances according to the HP: if it's higher than declared it's a fraud against the state and the insurance company.
That's the point.
When I was a teenager I had a 50cc scooter that ran about 70mph (no BS!) and I used to carry some little stones in my pocket to crash the engine (no air filter) in case they catck me. That was a $500 engine, not a LS1... no stones in my pocket now.
I drive.
I see a police officer that pulls me out.
He asks my documents during another office looks at the car.
Because the second office sees one of those cars only every second month he's curious and ask me to turn on the engine.
He listen at the Corsa and at the strange noise from the hood.
He tells me to open the hood - the other guy did already saw in his PC how many speeding tickets I already have (a lot).
Hood is open: the officer calls the other guys: everyone is making a big smile!
The officer tells me to follow him - worst case another guy drives the car to the next test center...
No time to take the SC apart!
No time to remove whatever!
Only chance: some kind of button or lever or whatever to reduce the power as soon as I see the cops.
We pay taxes and insurances according to the HP: if it's higher than declared it's a fraud against the state and the insurance company.
That's the point.
When I was a teenager I had a 50cc scooter that ran about 70mph (no BS!) and I used to carry some little stones in my pocket to crash the engine (no air filter) in case they catck me. That was a $500 engine, not a LS1... no stones in my pocket now.
maybe you can make a button to foul out a plug, or pull the plug wire off the plug so you misfire.
Its not like they can prove you did it on purpose. would they be technical enough to know to check the plugs at all?
you could always rig something up to cut the belt for the S/C'er and just have it not work at all when they pull you over.
Much better then forking out x amount of dollars.
Its not like they can prove you did it on purpose. would they be technical enough to know to check the plugs at all?
you could always rig something up to cut the belt for the S/C'er and just have it not work at all when they pull you over.
Much better then forking out x amount of dollars.
So what you are saying is that they can make you dyno the car and then you can get busted.
Seems to me your iat/temp mod is pretty good, you could also fatten up the AF too. Maybe you need to test this on a dyno yourself and see what number works best.
I guess if you had my car, you'd have to carry a shotgun around and shoot the engine up if they pulled you over.
Seems to me your iat/temp mod is pretty good, you could also fatten up the AF too. Maybe you need to test this on a dyno yourself and see what number works best.
I guess if you had my car, you'd have to carry a shotgun around and shoot the engine up if they pulled you over.
Originally Posted by tici
OK this sounds completely stupid, but how much timing should I reduce to have the same RWHP as without blower? Right now I run 17* at 5PSI.
Here the reason: the local police wil bust my butt big time if they catch me with a supercharger. It's forbitten to increase the engine power unless you declare it, at this point they will check power, pollution, safety and so on - all things that would never pass a test.
They will put my car on a dyno and give me a fine in proportion to the "additional forbidden" power
This fine would be at least a couple of $1000...
I have installed an hidden switch that simulates an high IAT and I programmed the PCM to reduce 11* of timing at that temperature.
Final timing = 6*.
At WOT I (of course!) feel an huge difference with the switch on or off - the car litterally makes a jump whet the temperature goes back to normal.
Is it enoug? Should I reduce more timing? I'm looking at 290 RWHP or similar - just what a 98 LS1 stock is making.
Thanks!
Stefano
Here the reason: the local police wil bust my butt big time if they catch me with a supercharger. It's forbitten to increase the engine power unless you declare it, at this point they will check power, pollution, safety and so on - all things that would never pass a test.
They will put my car on a dyno and give me a fine in proportion to the "additional forbidden" power
This fine would be at least a couple of $1000...
I have installed an hidden switch that simulates an high IAT and I programmed the PCM to reduce 11* of timing at that temperature.
Final timing = 6*.
At WOT I (of course!) feel an huge difference with the switch on or off - the car litterally makes a jump whet the temperature goes back to normal.
Is it enoug? Should I reduce more timing? I'm looking at 290 RWHP or similar - just what a 98 LS1 stock is making.
Thanks!
Stefano
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
So what you are saying is that they can make you dyno the car and then you can get busted.
Seems to me your iat/temp mod is pretty good, you could also fatten up the AF too. Maybe you need to test this on a dyno yourself and see what number works best.
I guess if you had my car, you'd have to carry a shotgun around and shoot the engine up if they pulled you over.
Seems to me your iat/temp mod is pretty good, you could also fatten up the AF too. Maybe you need to test this on a dyno yourself and see what number works best.
I guess if you had my car, you'd have to carry a shotgun around and shoot the engine up if they pulled you over.
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Pro Stock John, shot the engine or the officer?
Yes, if they feel the car is really modded they may take it for testing and charge you.
If they see the blower and it doesn't make any power they may ask why... I can tell "it's an homemade tune and I do my best...".
If it's just too loud or if they see a strange filter they maybe charge you and that's it.
For more serious thing they can bust you.
For that it was better heads and cam (virtually invisible), but now I have the blower and I don't regret it.
Is it dangerous to run such low timing? like 5 or 0 degrees? It's at 6* right now and it feels stock to me.
I'll maybe have to go to the dyno or find some race track and check ET... any other idea?
Thanks - Stefano
Yes, if they feel the car is really modded they may take it for testing and charge you.
If they see the blower and it doesn't make any power they may ask why... I can tell "it's an homemade tune and I do my best...".
If it's just too loud or if they see a strange filter they maybe charge you and that's it.
For more serious thing they can bust you.
For that it was better heads and cam (virtually invisible), but now I have the blower and I don't regret it.
Is it dangerous to run such low timing? like 5 or 0 degrees? It's at 6* right now and it feels stock to me.
I'll maybe have to go to the dyno or find some race track and check ET... any other idea?
Thanks - Stefano
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From: Norn Iron
The BOV you currently have re-circulates. If you had a larger one, that you could open somehow, surely it would be fine re-circulating following the path your current one does ??
It wont create any boost, and the MAF still wont see any extra air passing by it ??
It wont create any boost, and the MAF still wont see any extra air passing by it ??
