Remote oil tank for remote mount turbo?
10-02-2005, 04:03 AM
#1
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Remote oil tank for remote mount turbo? Would there be any problem, instead of running the STS off the engines oil supply, to use a 1 gal cell (vented of course), with an oil cooler (maybe rail mounted) and use this in the rear. I would think it would help out having a dedicated oil supply, and cooler for the turbo that way, but want to make sure there isnt any hang ups. TIA
Charlie
Charlie
10-02-2005, 07:01 AM
#3
Funny someone brings that up.. I often wonder why a setup like that isn't employed all the time with turbo setups.. there's gotta be some kind of electric pump that could be used.. and the ability to "after oil" the turbo for cooling purposes to me just seems like a damn good idea.
10-02-2005, 12:11 PM
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Harlan, yeah I forgot to add pump, but basically I was wanting to add a resovoir and cooler to my buddies STS, which alread has a nice pump setup. There is a nasty mess of wires, and oil line fore and aft for this setup, that if some of it could be minimized would add to the appeal of the setup. But for me, the remote oiling and cooler would be for the turbo and engines sake.
So I guess there really wouldnt be any issues with it.
So I guess there really wouldnt be any issues with it.
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10-02-2005, 02:10 PM
#9
i'm talking about the pressure pump, not the scavenge side. If you're tank is higher than the turbo, which it will be with a rear mount, you'll need 2 pumps.
Finding a oil compatible, high temp, high pressure, continuous duty pump that can supply between 5 and 10 gpm at 60+ psi is gonna be an expensive task.
Finding a oil compatible, high temp, high pressure, continuous duty pump that can supply between 5 and 10 gpm at 60+ psi is gonna be an expensive task.
10-02-2005, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by y2khawk
i'm talking about the pressure pump, not the scavenge side. If you're tank is higher than the turbo, which it will be with a rear mount, you'll need 2 pumps.
Finding a oil compatible, high temp, high pressure, continuous duty pump that can supply between 5 and 10 gpm at 60+ psi is gonna be an expensive task.
Finding a oil compatible, high temp, high pressure, continuous duty pump that can supply between 5 and 10 gpm at 60+ psi is gonna be an expensive task.
My voice of reason! I should have remembered it takes the pressure going to the turbo to require the scavenge to get it out. Guess no cookies for me tonight! Damn it. Back to drawing board.
10-02-2005, 08:24 PM
#12
Why does the pressure have to be so high? I'd think that if there was a line going from teh turbo to the tank for suction.. and the fill line to the turbo was in a sumped style tank that would be enough. Not sure though.. I really have no idea how thiswould work or not work.. just trying to get an understanding here....
10-02-2005, 09:28 PM
#13
The journal bearing in a turbo is just like a rod or main bearing, except for ball bearing but they still need lube too.
The bearing is actually a thin film of oil, so the shaft floats on the oil within the journal.
you CAN'T suck the oil through and expect sufficient oil supply. It takes VERY little time for a turbo to chew the bearing out when you don't have sufficient oil supply.
If you want a seperate system, you MUST have a high pressure pump to feed to the turbo. No if's and's or but's about it.
Carry on
Oh yeah, did i mention the shaft speeds can reach 90,000+ RPM if you're really working a turbo. Oil is very important
The bearing is actually a thin film of oil, so the shaft floats on the oil within the journal.
you CAN'T suck the oil through and expect sufficient oil supply. It takes VERY little time for a turbo to chew the bearing out when you don't have sufficient oil supply.
If you want a seperate system, you MUST have a high pressure pump to feed to the turbo. No if's and's or but's about it.
Carry on
Oh yeah, did i mention the shaft speeds can reach 90,000+ RPM if you're really working a turbo. Oil is very important
10-03-2005, 01:03 AM
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It depends on the room you have and how you intend on dealing with low points! If your pump suction inlet is at lowest point then you do not need scavenger pump. Also you do not need 5 GPM to keep turbo bearings happy.
If it where me (but I’m a supercharger guy), I would add turbo discharge restriction. This will create backpressure in bearings (a good thing) and allow turbos to act like they where hooked up to engine oil feed. Also if you have an isolated self contained oil system you can choose a more turbo friendly oil viscosity. It’s not that hard, but designing a system that is robust can be a challenge and expensive.
Mike
If it where me (but I’m a supercharger guy), I would add turbo discharge restriction. This will create backpressure in bearings (a good thing) and allow turbos to act like they where hooked up to engine oil feed. Also if you have an isolated self contained oil system you can choose a more turbo friendly oil viscosity. It’s not that hard, but designing a system that is robust can be a challenge and expensive.
Mike
10-03-2005, 01:39 AM
#15
Originally Posted by Skunkworks
I would add turbo discharge restriction. This will create backpressure in bearings (a good thing) and allow turbos to act like they where hooked up to engine oil feed.
The oil comes out everywhere but the drain.
There's a reason turbos are FED with high pressure oil and the drains are made as free flowing and straight down as possible.
Just make sure you have plenty of oil supply, and let the CHRA/bearing limit the flow. Otherwise, don't cry when the bearings, shaft, wheels and housings are all trash.
10-03-2005, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by y2khawk
Ever see a turbo with a poor drain or drain line that's too small??
The oil comes out everywhere but the drain.
There's a reason turbos are FED with high pressure oil and the drains are made as free flowing and straight down as possible.
Just make sure you have plenty of oil supply, and let the CHRA/bearing limit the flow. Otherwise, don't cry when the bearings, shaft, wheels and housings are all trash.
The oil comes out everywhere but the drain.
There's a reason turbos are FED with high pressure oil and the drains are made as free flowing and straight down as possible.
Just make sure you have plenty of oil supply, and let the CHRA/bearing limit the flow. Otherwise, don't cry when the bearings, shaft, wheels and housings are all trash.
I think older turbo bearing cartridges may make this pronounced, but if so I still think a isolated oil system can be made to work well.
Mike
10-03-2005, 04:37 AM
#17
Making more sense now... thanks.
Originally Posted by y2khawk
The journal bearing in a turbo is just like a rod or main bearing, except for ball bearing but they still need lube too.
The bearing is actually a thin film of oil, so the shaft floats on the oil within the journal.
you CAN'T suck the oil through and expect sufficient oil supply. It takes VERY little time for a turbo to chew the bearing out when you don't have sufficient oil supply.
If you want a seperate system, you MUST have a high pressure pump to feed to the turbo. No if's and's or but's about it.
Carry on
Oh yeah, did i mention the shaft speeds can reach 90,000+ RPM if you're really working a turbo. Oil is very important
The bearing is actually a thin film of oil, so the shaft floats on the oil within the journal.
you CAN'T suck the oil through and expect sufficient oil supply. It takes VERY little time for a turbo to chew the bearing out when you don't have sufficient oil supply.
If you want a seperate system, you MUST have a high pressure pump to feed to the turbo. No if's and's or but's about it.
Carry on
Oh yeah, did i mention the shaft speeds can reach 90,000+ RPM if you're really working a turbo. Oil is very important
10-03-2005, 08:13 AM
#18
I might have a set up by december i have been toying with the ideal there is a gap between the gas tank and axel i have been looking at that spot for a oil sump using a rectangel instead of a square 3 quart set up a oil cooler will fit. a small inline one my other hange up is a pump i have look at several ways to mount it but after reading this about scavaging and oil pick up dam im lost but i have time and technology on my side i cat spell for **** but i can fab up some ****!!!
10-17-2005, 10:14 PM
#19
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Ive done it and it's worked for 8,000 miles the turbo only needs 5-10 psi at idle and 25-30 psi while spooling. 8000 miles and no shaft play. I've made a D.C. motor PWM (pulse witdth modulated) speed controller with boost reference. that controls a gear dive oil pump. the motor draws 4.5 amps with cold oil and 3.25 amps warm, under boost at high psi it draws a little over seven. The system i use only holds 3/4 of a quart, and has an thermostat controlled oil cooler. email me for pics.
Pump $200.00
cooler $180.00
custom oil res $150.00
speed control $75.00
mics $100.00
total $705.00 ouch never realized how much I spent!!!!!
Pump $200.00
cooler $180.00
custom oil res $150.00
speed control $75.00
mics $100.00
total $705.00 ouch never realized how much I spent!!!!!
