350 whp from sts!?! thats all!?!?
09-06-2007, 10:59 AM
#62
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So, you're trying run 7-8 psi with no intercooler or anything to cool the intake charge? Maybe try to turn the boost down to 5 psiand run more timing. That won't cost anything, and it might help.
As for the boost falling off, what kind of boost controller is in there? I have a greddey profec that has a gain control. Since my fuel can't keep up, I set it to peak the boost using the gain function and then fall back down to 5 psi. Maybe one of these settings are causing your boost to fall off?
As for the boost falling off, what kind of boost controller is in there? I have a greddey profec that has a gain control. Since my fuel can't keep up, I set it to peak the boost using the gain function and then fall back down to 5 psi. Maybe one of these settings are causing your boost to fall off?
09-06-2007, 11:24 AM
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I'm runnin stock 3.23 gears. this is so frustrating there are so many varieables! I don't think anything is wrong with my kit or my motor other than the high intake temps.... I'd b willin to bet every penny I own that its the tune. because this is the first time the tuner has done a turbo car.
09-06-2007, 12:07 PM
#65
Originally Posted by mycar2fast
I'm runnin stock 3.23 gears. this is so frustrating there are so many varieables! I don't think anything is wrong with my kit or my motor other than the high intake temps.... I'd b willin to bet every penny I own that its the tune. because this is the first time the tuner has done a turbo car.
get a new tuner and go with a SD tune... ditch the junk maf...
and you need to buy some 42# injectors and forget about using other crap. Tho i don't think that is the problem (I have read about people pushing stock injectors pretty far...
09-06-2007, 12:32 PM
#66
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My 42 #er's were above 85% duty cycle with the 60 trim turbo and a stock motor. If you change the injectors, just go with 60's.
And I agree with dragframe, a SD tune is way better for a turbo application. I also think, as mentioned before, the crazy high IAT's are causing the pcm to pull so much timing, their is no way you're going to make good power. That's why I suggested turning it back down to 5 psi, and tune accordingly.
And I agree with dragframe, a SD tune is way better for a turbo application. I also think, as mentioned before, the crazy high IAT's are causing the pcm to pull so much timing, their is no way you're going to make good power. That's why I suggested turning it back down to 5 psi, and tune accordingly.
09-06-2007, 01:30 PM
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I am not worried about injectors, they will easily outflow what a stock pump will put out, I tested it on the dyno. The injectors went static, and there was a decent PSI drop on the fuel rail.
09-06-2007, 03:32 PM
#68
I have a new pair of ATI ProCharger 4.5" twin intercoolers, complete with all the tubing, for sale. This might help you out if your inlet air temps are too high. Bob
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=948
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=948
09-06-2007, 06:19 PM
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alright thanks ALOT for all the advice guys im gonna try everything and see what happens.... i just dont understand, dont most sts guys make like low to mid 400's without intercooler or meth??? and i know ive mentioned this before, but when im on the dyno i make like 348whp and 385lbs of tourque at like 4400 rpms then all the sudden they both do a nose dive!! my tuner says "its like its hitting a wall and wont push anymore air" WTF?? why would this b? other than the chance that my tuner sucks ***! because my iat's??? HELP!!!!
09-06-2007, 08:06 PM
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First thing, you don't need that much boost to hit mid 400's. As I mentioned earlier, you should be running 5 psi since you have nothing to cool IAT's. And, yes, depending on the tune, high IAT's can definitely cause serious drops in power. A stock 02 tune will pull up to 6 degrees if timing around 150 degree IAT's.
You likely have a few small things that when combined really are hurting you. It really seems like you skimped a bit on the fuel system, which is really not a good idea. Trust me, I did the same thing (see sig), but I have a lot of stuff to keep track of the car and make sure it isn't going lean. If you want, pm me and I can try to help.
You likely have a few small things that when combined really are hurting you. It really seems like you skimped a bit on the fuel system, which is really not a good idea. Trust me, I did the same thing (see sig), but I have a lot of stuff to keep track of the car and make sure it isn't going lean. If you want, pm me and I can try to help.
09-06-2007, 10:07 PM
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The fuel system is sound, I know that even if we had stock injectors, we would see this problem. The L67 injectors easily flow 50 WHP per injector in a 3800, so 400whp out of a more efficient motor/transmission should be NO problem. Remember that 5psi on a heads/cam car is alot more airflow than what 7psi is on a stock motor.
09-07-2007, 12:56 AM
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I wish people wouldn't even worry about tuning for power or power AT ALL for that matter until their vehicles are COMPLETELY mechanically sound.
Hey guys I'm missing two spark plugs on my 454" Warhawk motor with heads flow 420cfm. I'm only making 300hp?!?! WTF?
Sounds a bit silly doesn't it? What a car makes while it's Broken (if your car is leaking something,anything it is broken) means nothing. Fix it PROPERLY and THEN worry about power.
This isn't intended for anyone in particular I just want people to think about this. It frightens me how many people think they can accurately assess what a car should make for power based on how it is running when broken.
Please direct any misguided individuals to the appropriate repair/troubleshooting section when they post or offer advice on how to repair the problem (as has been done here) BEFORE recommending new parts and such to increase power....
To the OP: Good luck with the car I hope it makes the power you are looking for once it has been repaired.
Hey guys I'm missing two spark plugs on my 454" Warhawk motor with heads flow 420cfm. I'm only making 300hp?!?! WTF?
Sounds a bit silly doesn't it? What a car makes while it's Broken (if your car is leaking something,anything it is broken) means nothing. Fix it PROPERLY and THEN worry about power.
This isn't intended for anyone in particular I just want people to think about this. It frightens me how many people think they can accurately assess what a car should make for power based on how it is running when broken.
Please direct any misguided individuals to the appropriate repair/troubleshooting section when they post or offer advice on how to repair the problem (as has been done here) BEFORE recommending new parts and such to increase power....
To the OP: Good luck with the car I hope it makes the power you are looking for once it has been repaired.
09-07-2007, 11:38 AM
#74
Took me 8psi to make 395 RWHP on an intercooled STS 6spd car on a mustang dyno. Those are corrected numbers as well, uncorrected were something like 350 rwhp. My personal car only made 470 uncorrected and ran 10.54 @130mph with a 3850lb raceweight, but I do have a th400 trans.
Dynos do not measure HP very well at all, they really should change the units to garflabs since they make a lot more sense. Saying the car made 350 garflabs means a lot more than saying it made 350 hp. Dyno's are VERY good for tuning and finding problems with a car though. The mustang dyno I use to tune cars has always been 100% consistant.
If the IATs are really high the ECU pulls timing to prevent detonation. Depending on the year of the car it can pull upto 5 dgrees of timing out.
Dynos do not measure HP very well at all, they really should change the units to garflabs since they make a lot more sense. Saying the car made 350 garflabs means a lot more than saying it made 350 hp. Dyno's are VERY good for tuning and finding problems with a car though. The mustang dyno I use to tune cars has always been 100% consistant.
If the IATs are really high the ECU pulls timing to prevent detonation. Depending on the year of the car it can pull upto 5 dgrees of timing out.
09-07-2007, 12:15 PM
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I don't care what number my dyno gives me , but I know for a fact I shouldn't b running 13.37 at 110! that's just stupid..... wtf is wrong with this ??? thinkin tune ! lol
09-08-2007, 02:13 AM
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this is a quote from the tuner, which I fully agree with in every way..
As for Blakes tune, it is 11.5 AFR right now with 17 or 18 deg of timing. I have seen cars make way more power than he is NA and with blowers. There is something wrong with that particular turbo setup. Track times....are up to the driver, tires, chassis setup etc. :-). Yeah, map is going static, maf is flat lining because the air flow is flat lining. Something is cutting off the airflow. There is a very high possibility he is pulling in exhaust back into the intake. Try making up some test tubes to get the waste gate exhaust and turbo outlet exhaust away from that air cleaner. See if that makes a difference up top. He should be close to maxing out his injectors and he is not. There is a definite airflow problem. I cannot tune around mechanical issues...as you well know.
09-08-2007, 09:34 AM
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That sounds like a good amount of timing, and the afr is good. This has me stumped. Is he using HP Tuners? If so, can you get a copy of the latest scan?
09-08-2007, 11:55 AM
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Ill try to ask him for it. I have alot of experience tuning boosted 3800 and some knowledge of what to look for in 4cyl stuff... so Ill report back if there is anything of interest in the scan if I can get it.
BTW that last post was by me, I was logged in under his name accidentally.
BTW that last post was by me, I was logged in under his name accidentally.
09-08-2007, 01:52 PM
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the whole sucking exhaust fumes in the intake is bullshit, everybody! with sts setup is ran the same way my car is , and there not having this problem! i dont know what else there is, the only thing i can think of now would be internal motor issue, bad coil or injectors? getting my new housing and intercooler next week, i know these wont solve my problems as far as horspower goes, unless my intake temps are killin me that bad.... but i want them and they can only help so.....
09-08-2007, 04:08 PM
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On a dynojet my car made 398 rwhp and 456 rwtq on 5 p.s.i. through a 9". I just went and had my car put back in MAF and at WOT in 3rd gear she is showing 180+ IAT's and is pulling ALOT of timing out. It is tuned with 17* timing and she get's down to 9* timing. Im about to put an intercooler on her and hoping she gets close to 450-460 rwhp on 5 p.s.i. I don't want to put her on the dyno just to see what the hp is now but I know it probably plain out sucks. But, as far as your problem goes put an intercooler on it and that should help you out alot and find a new tuner. Where do you live at? My tuner is well known and does a damn good job.
Jimmy
Jimmy