problems with aeromotive 1000
08-21-2006, 12:11 PM
#1
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
problems with aeromotive 1000 i have a nasty performance tank in my 2000 ta. the fuel pump is mounted on the pass side of the tank. when it started grtting hot outside i began to have problems with the pump shutting off. all winter long the pump gave me no problems. is the temperature difference between the seasons enough to cause the pump to over heat? if so what should i do to resolve this?
08-21-2006, 01:33 PM
#2
It's the heat. The pump is re-circulating so much un-used fuel while your cruising that it over-heats and shuts off. The same thing would happen with my SX pump if I cruised to long.
Now I never let the tank get below a half and stop to put some "cool" gas in if I've been cruising for awhile.
It's so cold in the winter that the fuel never really gets hot enough to cause problems.
I picked up an aeromotive billet fuel pump controller to help with the issue. Just haven't installed it yet.
Now I never let the tank get below a half and stop to put some "cool" gas in if I've been cruising for awhile.
It's so cold in the winter that the fuel never really gets hot enough to cause problems.
I picked up an aeromotive billet fuel pump controller to help with the issue. Just haven't installed it yet.
08-21-2006, 08:40 PM
#3
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by edstrokedta
i have a nasty performance tank in my 2000 ta. the fuel pump is mounted on the pass side of the tank. when it started grtting hot outside i began to have problems with the pump shutting off. all winter long the pump gave me no problems. is the temperature difference between the seasons enough to cause the pump to over heat? if so what should i do to resolve this?
Can you give me more input or picture of how your lines and return is routed and what regulator you have?
FWIW, i ran that same pump in my street car (9 sec driver) and in the TX heat at 100-106 or so outside never once had any issues even on long trips. My pump was mounted slightly lower then the sump on a bracket hanging off the drivers side rail. The pump should be mounted slightly below the sump.
08-22-2006, 11:59 AM
#4
FormerVendor
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL
Posts: 5,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by V6 Bird
First of all the pump should be mounted behind the sump and be gravity fed. With it mounted on the side of the tank its working double duty. One to suck the fuel from the sump and then again pushing it towards the rails.
Can you give me more input or picture of how your lines and return is routed and what regulator you have?
FWIW, i ran that same pump in my street car (9 sec driver) and in the TX heat at 100-106 or so outside never once had any issues even on long trips. My pump was mounted slightly lower then the sump on a bracket hanging off the drivers side rail. The pump should be mounted slightly below the sump.
Can you give me more input or picture of how your lines and return is routed and what regulator you have?
FWIW, i ran that same pump in my street car (9 sec driver) and in the TX heat at 100-106 or so outside never once had any issues even on long trips. My pump was mounted slightly lower then the sump on a bracket hanging off the drivers side rail. The pump should be mounted slightly below the sump.
Nate
08-22-2006, 01:13 PM
#5
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so should i get the controler or relocate the pump? i just hate to spend money if i dont have to. i too thought that the pump location was adaquet for my application. thanks for the input guys.
08-22-2006, 03:21 PM
#7
FormerVendor
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL
Posts: 5,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The pump is fine in the location you have thats where we hang all pumps on our tanks. Either a pump controler or a different pump that will handle street driving.
Nate
Nate
Trending Topics
08-22-2006, 03:28 PM
#8
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Nasty N8
The pump is fine in the location you have thats where we hang all pumps on our tanks. Either a pump controler or a different pump that will handle street driving.
Nate
Nate
08-22-2006, 03:29 PM
#9
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by edstrokedta
so should i get the controler or relocate the pump? i just hate to spend money if i dont have to. i too thought that the pump location was adaquet for my application. thanks for the input guys.
08-24-2006, 12:15 PM
#11
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by edstrokedta
yeah its on the side and above the sump. i cant figure out how to put pics on the post to show you. anyone know how to post pics?
mhutto01@gmail.com
08-24-2006, 12:23 PM
#12
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Nasty N8
Wrong these pumps are rated to pull fuel up to 20feet above the fuel cell. They are just not all that great as street pumps. They rec. there controller for street use it cuts voltage to keep heat down.
Nate
Nate
Thats real funny you say that. When someone else I knew had it installed by a shop and mounted where the stock location of a fuel filter is and a line run like this it had SERIOUS ISSUES! They are not compatitble to be run like that no matter you say or Aeromtive Tech line 18 year old kid tells you..
I moved the pump to just below the sump of the tank and gravity fed it and BAM...no more issues. They are a VERY streetable pumps when setup and installed correctly and used without the controller. Out of the 5 or so pumps ive installed none have had an issue and none of them are using a controller.
08-24-2006, 06:41 PM
#14
TECH Resident
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its not the pump. Its heat related vapor lock caused by the high recirculation rate at cruise. The vapor lock is caused by the high inlet vacuum generated by their roller vane pump. Vacuum by definition lowers the pressure on the gas on the inlet side. This lower pressure causes the fuel to flash sooner. Check out VP Racing Fuel's website for specs on fuel vaporization temperatures. Lower inlet pressure can also be caused by a restriction such as a filter or insufficient plumbing or ventilation under load.
Aeromotive routinely runs durability tests on their pumps. The pump will run 24/7 on pump gasoline for weeks on end and recirculate no more than about 5 gallons of fuel at efi pressure. Fuel temperature stays 10-15 degrees above above room temperature without any kind of cooling. The pump sits about 24" above fuel level during the test.
There are no 18 year old kids on their tech line. There is a 40 something professional that has speced fuel systems for virtually every major magazine and heads up racer that runs their product.
The pumps have been proven to draw fuel 30 feet vertically.
Other brands of pumps may not experience the same phenomenon as they don't draw fuel as well and rely on a gravity feed. Magnafuel uses a spur gear, like a traditional oil pump. Weldon prefers a sliding vane/wear sleeve and high rpm. Mallory uses a gerotor mechanism that is prone to locking up from debris if filtration is inadequate. Most all have their place but none is more suited to all around street/performance use than Aeromotive. The A1000 is designed to run for at least 2500 hours provided it is installed correctly with the proper support equipment.
The pump speed controller lowers the recirclation rate during low demand by lowering volume roughly 40%. This reduces the heat that the fuel absorbs from the supporting fuel system hardware. This is most prevelant with return fuel system conversions on the LSx. The rails are the big culprit. Fuel absorbs heat from the rails and is returned to the tank. After a while the fuel gets hot enough it starts to boil in the inlet to the pump. Your engine won't run well on foam. The pump doesn't quit, it just stops drawing liquid fuel. When you shut off the car the fuel cools and stops boiling.
The same problem can happen at high altitude or a warm day with winter blend fuel.
Bottom line: keep the heat out of your fuel.
Aeromotive routinely runs durability tests on their pumps. The pump will run 24/7 on pump gasoline for weeks on end and recirculate no more than about 5 gallons of fuel at efi pressure. Fuel temperature stays 10-15 degrees above above room temperature without any kind of cooling. The pump sits about 24" above fuel level during the test.
There are no 18 year old kids on their tech line. There is a 40 something professional that has speced fuel systems for virtually every major magazine and heads up racer that runs their product.
The pumps have been proven to draw fuel 30 feet vertically.
Other brands of pumps may not experience the same phenomenon as they don't draw fuel as well and rely on a gravity feed. Magnafuel uses a spur gear, like a traditional oil pump. Weldon prefers a sliding vane/wear sleeve and high rpm. Mallory uses a gerotor mechanism that is prone to locking up from debris if filtration is inadequate. Most all have their place but none is more suited to all around street/performance use than Aeromotive. The A1000 is designed to run for at least 2500 hours provided it is installed correctly with the proper support equipment.
The pump speed controller lowers the recirclation rate during low demand by lowering volume roughly 40%. This reduces the heat that the fuel absorbs from the supporting fuel system hardware. This is most prevelant with return fuel system conversions on the LSx. The rails are the big culprit. Fuel absorbs heat from the rails and is returned to the tank. After a while the fuel gets hot enough it starts to boil in the inlet to the pump. Your engine won't run well on foam. The pump doesn't quit, it just stops drawing liquid fuel. When you shut off the car the fuel cools and stops boiling.
The same problem can happen at high altitude or a warm day with winter blend fuel.
Bottom line: keep the heat out of your fuel.
08-25-2006, 08:24 AM
#15
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by andereck
Its not the pump. Its heat related vapor lock caused by the high recirculation rate at cruise. The vapor lock is caused by the high inlet vacuum generated by their roller vane pump. Vacuum by definition lowers the pressure on the gas on the inlet side. This lower pressure causes the fuel to flash sooner. Check out VP Racing Fuel's website for specs on fuel vaporization temperatures. Lower inlet pressure can also be caused by a restriction such as a filter or insufficient plumbing or ventilation under load.
Aeromotive routinely runs durability tests on their pumps. The pump will run 24/7 on pump gasoline for weeks on end and recirculate no more than about 5 gallons of fuel at efi pressure. Fuel temperature stays 10-15 degrees above above room temperature without any kind of cooling. The pump sits about 24" above fuel level during the test.
There are no 18 year old kids on their tech line. There is a 40 something professional that has speced fuel systems for virtually every major magazine and heads up racer that runs their product.
The pumps have been proven to draw fuel 30 feet vertically.
Other brands of pumps may not experience the same phenomenon as they don't draw fuel as well and rely on a gravity feed. Magnafuel uses a spur gear, like a traditional oil pump. Weldon prefers a sliding vane/wear sleeve and high rpm. Mallory uses a gerotor mechanism that is prone to locking up from debris if filtration is inadequate. Most all have their place but none is more suited to all around street/performance use than Aeromotive. The A1000 is designed to run for at least 2500 hours provided it is installed correctly with the proper support equipment.
The pump speed controller lowers the recirclation rate during low demand by lowering volume roughly 40%. This reduces the heat that the fuel absorbs from the supporting fuel system hardware. This is most prevelant with return fuel system conversions on the LSx. The rails are the big culprit. Fuel absorbs heat from the rails and is returned to the tank. After a while the fuel gets hot enough it starts to boil in the inlet to the pump. Your engine won't run well on foam. The pump doesn't quit, it just stops drawing liquid fuel. When you shut off the car the fuel cools and stops boiling.
The same problem can happen at high altitude or a warm day with winter blend fuel.
Bottom line: keep the heat out of your fuel.
Aeromotive routinely runs durability tests on their pumps. The pump will run 24/7 on pump gasoline for weeks on end and recirculate no more than about 5 gallons of fuel at efi pressure. Fuel temperature stays 10-15 degrees above above room temperature without any kind of cooling. The pump sits about 24" above fuel level during the test.
There are no 18 year old kids on their tech line. There is a 40 something professional that has speced fuel systems for virtually every major magazine and heads up racer that runs their product.
The pumps have been proven to draw fuel 30 feet vertically.
Other brands of pumps may not experience the same phenomenon as they don't draw fuel as well and rely on a gravity feed. Magnafuel uses a spur gear, like a traditional oil pump. Weldon prefers a sliding vane/wear sleeve and high rpm. Mallory uses a gerotor mechanism that is prone to locking up from debris if filtration is inadequate. Most all have their place but none is more suited to all around street/performance use than Aeromotive. The A1000 is designed to run for at least 2500 hours provided it is installed correctly with the proper support equipment.
The pump speed controller lowers the recirclation rate during low demand by lowering volume roughly 40%. This reduces the heat that the fuel absorbs from the supporting fuel system hardware. This is most prevelant with return fuel system conversions on the LSx. The rails are the big culprit. Fuel absorbs heat from the rails and is returned to the tank. After a while the fuel gets hot enough it starts to boil in the inlet to the pump. Your engine won't run well on foam. The pump doesn't quit, it just stops drawing liquid fuel. When you shut off the car the fuel cools and stops boiling.
The same problem can happen at high altitude or a warm day with winter blend fuel.
Bottom line: keep the heat out of your fuel.
If it was truly able to to pull fuel from 30 ft above the level then how come it didnt work 5 ft away in front of the tank? Ill tell you, and you know this by the very last line in your post. HEAT!!!! Its working itself far too hard to pull the fuel and then try to push it through to the rails. Bottom line is you dont need the pump controller if the pump is mounted right behind and below the sump within 18" of it. Route lines away from heat sources and it will last a long time. I took my car on many long trips. 500+ miles with it routed like this and the return line pointed right at the sump. It was perfectly fine and saw no heating issues because I didnt have a pump controller.
Bottom line is like you stated. Keep heat away and it will be fine. A controller doesnt have to be used to keep heat away.
If you claim his car is truly experiencing high recirculation vapor lock, explain how my car setup like i stated it was didnt?
08-25-2006, 08:37 AM
#16
TECH Resident
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by V6 Bird
If it was truly able to to pull fuel from 30 ft above the level then how come it didnt work 5 ft away in front of the tank? Ill tell you, and you know this by the very last line in your post. HEAT!!!! Its working itself far too hard to pull the fuel and then try to push it through to the rails. Bottom line is you dont need the pump controller if the pump is mounted right behind and below the sump within 18" of it. Route lines away from heat sources and it will last a long time. I took my car on many long trips. 500+ miles with it routed like this and the return line pointed right at the sump. It was perfectly fine and saw no heating issues because I didnt have a pump controller.
Bottom line is like you stated. Keep heat away and it will be fine. A controller doesnt have to be used to keep heat away.
If you claim his car is truly experiencing high recirculation vapor lock, explain how my car setup like i stated it was didnt?
Bottom line is like you stated. Keep heat away and it will be fine. A controller doesnt have to be used to keep heat away.
If you claim his car is truly experiencing high recirculation vapor lock, explain how my car setup like i stated it was didnt?
08-25-2006, 09:45 AM
#18
9 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anderceck and Bird... both of you have good insight and input. Make me lean towards the A1000, and I will keep mounting location in mind. How do you guys reccomend sumping a 99-02 F-Body tank?
08-25-2006, 10:16 AM
#19
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by andereck
I'm not claiming anything. That's what happens. If the pump has to pull the fuel vapor lock can be a problem. If the pump is mounted so its gravity fed with a slight head pressure chances for vapor lock will greatly diminish.
Last edited by V6 Bird; 08-25-2006 at 10:24 AM.
08-25-2006, 10:18 AM
#20
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by longrange4u
Anderceck and Bird... both of you have good insight and input. Make me lean towards the A1000, and I will keep mounting location in mind. How do you guys reccomend sumping a 99-02 F-Body tank?
I guess you could install some -12an bulk heads to feed the pump but id rather see you do a metal tank with a real sump personally.
I used the stock filler neck and it was a bitch to get in my car. A little metal persuasion in a neat fashion and it fit up in there nicely.