Axle Spline Count Strength?
#1
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How much HP/Torque can the various axle sizes take on Slicks at the track with perfect traction in an Stock Weight F-Body?
I contacted Mark Williams and they say that they have no data for the 31 Spline Axles they manufacture. I was stunned to find out that they cannot quantify any data on their axles that they are selling! I have been going back and forth with them for 3 days now on the matter! Stunned to say the least!
So what are your real life experiences with axle Strength for the various axle sizes?
28 Spline
31 Spline
33 Spline
35 Spline
40 Spline
How much can they withstand with a Axle Type (10 Bolt, 9" etc.),Type of Diff (Spool, Locker etc), Perfect Traction and 3500 pound F-Body, State Your Gear Ratio, Stall if Auto, Trans Braked etc?
Joe
I contacted Mark Williams and they say that they have no data for the 31 Spline Axles they manufacture. I was stunned to find out that they cannot quantify any data on their axles that they are selling! I have been going back and forth with them for 3 days now on the matter! Stunned to say the least!
So what are your real life experiences with axle Strength for the various axle sizes?
28 Spline
31 Spline
33 Spline
35 Spline
40 Spline
How much can they withstand with a Axle Type (10 Bolt, 9" etc.),Type of Diff (Spool, Locker etc), Perfect Traction and 3500 pound F-Body, State Your Gear Ratio, Stall if Auto, Trans Braked etc?
Joe
Last edited by StraightTimeStirrups; 09-19-2012 at 11:01 AM.
#2
Kleeborp the Moderator™
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See all those things at the end of your post? Those are called variables, and there are too many listed for Mark Williams to give you good data. That's why they aren't giving you any numbers - they could tell you their axles are good for 1000 HP, but in what? A 2,500 lb race car with an automatic transmission? A 4,000 lb tank with a manual and a stiff clutch side stepping at 8,000 RPMs? They likely don't have anyone in their shop running your exact setup, so I don't blame them one bit for not quantifying things for you.
I think a better question to ask them is if they will stand behind them if they break at your power level with your setup? What rear end are you even running, the stock 10-bolt?
I think a better question to ask them is if they will stand behind them if they break at your power level with your setup? What rear end are you even running, the stock 10-bolt?
#3
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As a matter of fact, I even did ask them that and gave them HP/Torque Ranges in 50HP/Torque increments to see if they could tell me at what point I should go from say a 31 to 33 or 35 Spline Count axle and got the same answer, "We have no data for 31 Spline Axles!"
I gave them my set up exactly down to everything except Dyno HP/Torque! That is why I am asking the questions here because I cant get an answer from them and we have a group here that has run as many varied set ups in these cars as one can imagine!
What is shocking to me is that a company that has been in business over 40 years cant give even a ballpark estimate on axles strength for our cars! I am sure they have a ton of real world experience dealing with cars in the 3000-4000 Pound weight range!
Joe
#4
Kleeborp the Moderator™
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And you still didn't answer my very basic question: what rear end? If you are running a stock 10-bolt, I don't think you'll find anything over 28 spline. 9-inch rears typically start at 31 spline, but I think some of the newer diffs are 35 spline. 12-bolts typically come with 33 spline, and the S60s seem to favor 35 spline.
#5
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There's a huge difference with my question: if a company is willing to stand behind their product, then your power level and combo won't matter.
I dont want to run an axle that will break nor do I want to run one that is Over Kill either
And you still didn't answer my very basic question: what rear end? If you are running a stock 10-bolt, I don't think you'll find anything over 28 spline. 9-inch rears typically start at 31 spline, but I think some of the newer diffs are 35 spline. 12-bolts typically come with 33 spline, and the S60s seem to favor 35 spline.
The reason I didnt answer your question for "MY" set up is I am trying to make this a generic thread and build up a data base of what people have run and had personal experience with. I thought I was asking a fairly basic question of Axle Strength and apparently Mark Williams hasnt tested their 31 Spline Axles! By the way, they sent me the data for their 35 and 40 Spline!
I dont want to run an axle that will break nor do I want to run one that is Over Kill either
And you still didn't answer my very basic question: what rear end? If you are running a stock 10-bolt, I don't think you'll find anything over 28 spline. 9-inch rears typically start at 31 spline, but I think some of the newer diffs are 35 spline. 12-bolts typically come with 33 spline, and the S60s seem to favor 35 spline.
The reason I didnt answer your question for "MY" set up is I am trying to make this a generic thread and build up a data base of what people have run and had personal experience with. I thought I was asking a fairly basic question of Axle Strength and apparently Mark Williams hasnt tested their 31 Spline Axles! By the way, they sent me the data for their 35 and 40 Spline!
#6
Kleeborp the Moderator™
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You'll have better luck searching around in the drag racing tech section:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-tech-34/
And the reason I keep asking about the rear end type is because you will be limited by whatever you have (or put) in your car. Por ejemplo, you won't find a 40-spline axle that will fit in a stock 7.5"/7.625" 10-bolt...at least not that I'm aware of. I've also not seen f-body 12-bolts offered with anything less than a 33-spline...that was my only option when I ordered mine years ago.
IMO, you'll be more limited by your differential choice than axle spline count...figure out what diff you want to run, figure out what spline counts they offer for your application, and go from there.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/drag-racing-tech-34/
And the reason I keep asking about the rear end type is because you will be limited by whatever you have (or put) in your car. Por ejemplo, you won't find a 40-spline axle that will fit in a stock 7.5"/7.625" 10-bolt...at least not that I'm aware of. I've also not seen f-body 12-bolts offered with anything less than a 33-spline...that was my only option when I ordered mine years ago.
IMO, you'll be more limited by your differential choice than axle spline count...figure out what diff you want to run, figure out what spline counts they offer for your application, and go from there.
#7
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Yo Comprende! I did a search and in 6 pages of threads no one addressed the question I posed when one should step up to a different spline count based on HP/Torque Requirements for our cars.
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#10
Kleeborp the Moderator™
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From the searching I've done in this section, it looked like quite a few people have twisted their Moser axles, and it also looked like Moser didn't offer a warranty of any sort on anything below a 33-spline axle. If you went with the higher spline counts, it looked like they had a 10-year warranty, hence why I asked about what Mark Williams was willing to stand behind. If they don't offer a warranty of any sort on their 31 spline axles (which wouldn't be surprising since they didn't have data), then your best best is to go with something that does have a warranty.
As long as you aren't unnecessarily limiting your diff selection, there's no reason in my mind to not go somewhere in the 33-35 spline range just for good measure. Lots of diff options available for the different rears out there, and it looks like it took one dude (Fireball) about 1700 HP to twist a 35 spline unit in his 3,500-ish lb car.
As long as you aren't unnecessarily limiting your diff selection, there's no reason in my mind to not go somewhere in the 33-35 spline range just for good measure. Lots of diff options available for the different rears out there, and it looks like it took one dude (Fireball) about 1700 HP to twist a 35 spline unit in his 3,500-ish lb car.
#11
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I am not so much concerned for my power levels but thought this might be a great help for others with more HP/Torque in the future.
Joe
#12
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ok. I have a MWC Fab9 that is shortened 1" on each end. It has Strange 33 spline axles, Richmond 4:10 gears, Strange Light weight spool, Strange aluminum center section and Chromoly yoke. I'm looking at taking out the spool and buying a wavetrac now for better street manners
#13
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I twisted a few Moser shafts on my 8.8
Timeline...
28 spline thin shafts, never twisted
28 spline large diameter shafts with bigger bearings. twisted
31 spline shafts ( basically same as above ) twisted.
So there are many more variables. I think the long thin shaft had more flex hence the smaller 28 spline never twisted. At least they didnt twist at the splines. The shafts with a stronger main bar, they all twisted at the splines.
Switch to Mark Williams Masterline 31 spline shafts, no twisting. The quality of these is far superior to the cheap Mosers
Timeline...
28 spline thin shafts, never twisted
28 spline large diameter shafts with bigger bearings. twisted
31 spline shafts ( basically same as above ) twisted.
So there are many more variables. I think the long thin shaft had more flex hence the smaller 28 spline never twisted. At least they didnt twist at the splines. The shafts with a stronger main bar, they all twisted at the splines.
Switch to Mark Williams Masterline 31 spline shafts, no twisting. The quality of these is far superior to the cheap Mosers