ladder bar conversion??
10-08-2007, 11:31 AM
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ladder bar conversion?? A buddy of mine just did the ladder bar coversion from g-force suspension. Its the kit that eliminates the need for a torque arm. He said it works awsome. But what I noticed when he accelerated hard was that instead of the rearend planting downwards the whole back of the car lifted up. Now if you ask me I dont see how that can improve traction. Anyway does anyone else have any experience with this setup.
10-08-2007, 11:36 AM
#2
It probably raises up cause the action of the ladder bars pushing down actually lifts the rear suspension up as it applies more force to the ground. In other words when he hits it & the power is put to the rear it pushes down to plant the power but pushes everything above the ladder bars up to help keep the nose on the ground.
I have never run a ladder bar system, but this would be my best guess.
I have never run a ladder bar system, but this would be my best guess.
10-08-2007, 12:58 PM
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It probably raises up cause the action of the ladder bars pushing down actually lifts the rear suspension up as it applies more force to the ground. In other words when he hits it & the power is put to the rear it pushes down to plant the power but pushes everything above the ladder bars up to help keep the nose on the ground.
I have never run a ladder bar system, but this would be my best guess.
I have never run a ladder bar system, but this would be my best guess.
Yeah thats sounds about right to me. I just want to know if anyone else has tried this setup.
10-08-2007, 10:02 PM
#4
That is how the torque arm works also. It puhes the rearend into the ground. From outside the car this motion looks like the body of the car is being lifted off of the rear tires.
10-08-2007, 10:57 PM
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It has nothing to do with the bars themselves, it is from the Instant Center where they are "set" at, a ladder bar car can be set to also "squat" or lower.
If the car lifts it is called anti squat. At a point of less than 100 it squats, at 100 it stays in the same spot and over 100 "lifts" the in rear anti squat.
It's like an imaginary line that runs up at an angle towards the front of the car, at a point below the line it squats and the more you raise this point over the imaginary line the more it tends to separate in the rear end.
It is "hitting the tire harder" and is needed more in autos than in manuals.
I like the stock suspension better, with an adjustable torque arm and lower control arm mounts with multiple holes you'll have more tuneability, a ladder bar will have one hole that works best, two that are ok and one or two that are useless. You can only change IC hight on a ladder bar not the length like you can on a stock torque arm setup or 4 link.
Just like a 4 link has a ton of intersections points, but 80% won't work right.
But that's my opinion and I am just going off memory on this stuff so I could be full of BS =)
If the car lifts it is called anti squat. At a point of less than 100 it squats, at 100 it stays in the same spot and over 100 "lifts" the in rear anti squat.
It's like an imaginary line that runs up at an angle towards the front of the car, at a point below the line it squats and the more you raise this point over the imaginary line the more it tends to separate in the rear end.
It is "hitting the tire harder" and is needed more in autos than in manuals.
I like the stock suspension better, with an adjustable torque arm and lower control arm mounts with multiple holes you'll have more tuneability, a ladder bar will have one hole that works best, two that are ok and one or two that are useless. You can only change IC hight on a ladder bar not the length like you can on a stock torque arm setup or 4 link.
Just like a 4 link has a ton of intersections points, but 80% won't work right.
But that's my opinion and I am just going off memory on this stuff so I could be full of BS =)
Last edited by chrismorales75; 10-08-2007 at 11:07 PM.
10-09-2007, 07:06 AM
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It has nothing to do with the bars themselves, it is from the Instant Center where they are "set" at, a ladder bar car can be set to also "squat" or lower.
If the car lifts it is called anti squat. At a point of less than 100 it squats, at 100 it stays in the same spot and over 100 "lifts" the in rear anti squat.
It's like an imaginary line that runs up at an angle towards the front of the car, at a point below the line it squats and the more you raise this point over the imaginary line the more it tends to separate in the rear end.
It is "hitting the tire harder" and is needed more in autos than in manuals.
I like the stock suspension better, with an adjustable torque arm and lower control arm mounts with multiple holes you'll have more tuneability, a ladder bar will have one hole that works best, two that are ok and one or two that are useless. You can only change IC hight on a ladder bar not the length like you can on a stock torque arm setup or 4 link.
Just like a 4 link has a ton of intersections points, but 80% won't work right.
But that's my opinion and I am just going off memory on this stuff so I could be full of BS =)
If the car lifts it is called anti squat. At a point of less than 100 it squats, at 100 it stays in the same spot and over 100 "lifts" the in rear anti squat.
It's like an imaginary line that runs up at an angle towards the front of the car, at a point below the line it squats and the more you raise this point over the imaginary line the more it tends to separate in the rear end.
It is "hitting the tire harder" and is needed more in autos than in manuals.
I like the stock suspension better, with an adjustable torque arm and lower control arm mounts with multiple holes you'll have more tuneability, a ladder bar will have one hole that works best, two that are ok and one or two that are useless. You can only change IC hight on a ladder bar not the length like you can on a stock torque arm setup or 4 link.
Just like a 4 link has a ton of intersections points, but 80% won't work right.
But that's my opinion and I am just going off memory on this stuff so I could be full of BS =)
Thanks for the info. Dont think Iam going that route but hey ya never know.
10-09-2007, 10:39 PM
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You don't have to I personally know some one running low 8's on stock type f-body suspension.
Good luck tuning the car with 119 mph you'll be a mid 11 sec car hopefully soon =) Ideally a car with your power should run a low 1.5's 60ft
In my opinion the only benefit of running a ladder bar type suspension on an f-body would be if you want to run duel exhaust, you'll have tons of pipe room and can fit both pipes in the trans tunnel so you could lower the hell out of your car.
Good luck tuning the car with 119 mph you'll be a mid 11 sec car hopefully soon =) Ideally a car with your power should run a low 1.5's 60ft
In my opinion the only benefit of running a ladder bar type suspension on an f-body would be if you want to run duel exhaust, you'll have tons of pipe room and can fit both pipes in the trans tunnel so you could lower the hell out of your car.
Last edited by chrismorales75; 10-09-2007 at 10:45 PM.
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10-10-2007, 07:04 AM
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You don't have to I personally know some one running low 8's on stock type f-body suspension.
Good luck tuning the car with 119 mph you'll be a mid 11 sec car hopefully soon =) Ideally a car with your power should run a low 1.5's 60ft
In my opinion the only benefit of running a ladder bar type suspension on an f-body would be if you want to run duel exhaust, you'll have tons of pipe room and can fit both pipes in the trans tunnel so you could lower the hell out of your car.
Good luck tuning the car with 119 mph you'll be a mid 11 sec car hopefully soon =) Ideally a car with your power should run a low 1.5's 60ft
In my opinion the only benefit of running a ladder bar type suspension on an f-body would be if you want to run duel exhaust, you'll have tons of pipe room and can fit both pipes in the trans tunnel so you could lower the hell out of your car.
Yeah thats kinda what I figured. If it aint broke dont fix it. Like you said there are plenty of cars running the stock style suspension setup and it works. My shitty 2.1 60's are cause I still have the stock 10bolt and havent really tried launching it yet at the track. But that will soon change this weekend, either make it or brake it.
04-16-2009, 10:20 PM
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Think of how it pushes on the rearend and where. Im in the middle of a statics class in college and when I think of a rearend I instantly think of the physics that is happening. On a stock f-body the wheels are holding the ends of the housing that push up and the torque arm is pushing down at the center, so its like when you hold a pencil on the ends and push at the center SNAP! Personally I think that is why so many 10 bolts go out so quick because of the bending(they are weak also). This in my mind translates into the gears and causes stress on the center section. I have been looking into building a four link setup for my car (have some nice rod ends laying around). This eliminates some of the bending in the housing and pushes more at the ends of the housing and more on the tires. Tell me if im wrong.These are just my thoughts.
Last edited by CMR_ls1s; 04-16-2009 at 10:29 PM.
