KameleonTransAm

iTrader: (1)

Shhhh....let him do it, I thought it was pretty creative of him.

TonyGXP

Me and Matt, the Owner of Tune Time, picked his 2SS up today (Silver with dark gray stripes) and after riding in it for 40+ miles, and then driving it for a while I have to say this car doesn't come close to even reminding me of a 4th Gen... It feels like a muscle car and it's an awsome vehicle. I had a 3rd gen and except for the power of the LS1 in the 4th, couldn't stand the look of them (it's all a matter of taste). a matter of fact riding in it reminds me of being in a monte SS of the 80's (sounds, obviously not the power, what a joke) it's a muscle car, not a sports coupe.. (although it does handle well enough to be considered one, but you can feel the wieght in the transitioning. My TBSS handles great... going around a long radius curve, just don't ask it to switch back too quick, almost the same feeling with th rear end of the new Camaro.. Job well done, it's 10X the car the Challenger and the Mustang are.. trust me. I'm around them all the time the Camaro (I bleed GM blod obviously) is the nicest looking new car, stunning, out right now..

rayhawk

[QUOTE=427C5;11676662]Well, if performance is your main goal, then there is no better bang for the buck than the Corvette right now if a 2 seater is acceptable to you. The camaro is very hot right now, therefore the price is higher and there aren't really any deals on it. I am not trying to convince you to buy a Camaro, that is your choice. The camaro has a base price of $31k and the C6 has a base price of $49k. You are comparing a loaded camaro immediately after it comes out to a base model vette that they can't get rid of right now.

For most people, it is the whole package that sells them on a car. For me the corvette is useless because I need a backseat and can't afford another spare car. So a well optioned Camaro is well worth $36k to me, because I can drive it everyday and it is reasonably practical. If it is not worth that to you, I can certainly respect that, but it is worth that to a lot of people, obviously.

darrensls1

We'll see. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for a 12.4 stock time.

No, right now I am seeing mid 13's. Why? Because IRS + 20" street tires + stock tune = 2.2-2.4 60's with most drivers at most tracks.

Now there is the real key. Stock they are less then impressive but the modding potential is HUGE. I agree. Tires, exhaust, CAI and a good tune should see high 11's easy. A little weight reduction and look out.

Lets not get carried away. It's more like 400 lbs. Most LS1's were 3500-3600 lbs. The new Camaro is 3900-4000 lbs.

I would sure hope so. For $38K it better be a better built car

Not even close. The average time you will see at a track is well in the 13's for the new Camaro. They accelerate great and have great trap speeds but they can't launch for ****.

The difference is closer to half a second. The average LS1 will run 13.6 and the average 2010 Camaro will probably run 13.1. The best LS1 stock time as you pointed out is 12.8. So even if we see a 12.4 that's only .4 quicker.

From a roll on the street they will shine. With basic bolt ons, tuning and tires they will definately shine. But in stock trim, at the track and with average John Q Public driving they are merely a diamond in the rough.

So to speak

427C5

Congrats.
Agreed it's a good looking car. After all black, I think your combo is the best looking from the factory.

What do TBSS's really weigh at the track in both AWD and RWD trims?
Can you weigh and post your new Camaro SS as well to compare?
Thanks.

At least with the TBSS, you get 4 doors, a ton of room, and the option for AWD. I only wish it had the 4L60 or 4L80 from the factory and IRS.
The G8 is the only option I can stomach with the weight.


Agreed. Hats off the GM for stomping the Mustang and Challenger.
But, I only appreciate the new car with 4 doors (G8) because of it's weight and the Camaro's ZERO room inside.

[QUOTE=rayhawk;11678630]I agree. You just gave the ONLY reason to skip the Corvette.
But, why not the G8 instead?
Yes. The Camaro looks good. But, that back seat in the Camaro is a joke and it weighs the same as the G8.


My FULLY loaded 4th Gen CONVERTIBLE weighed 3,666 at the track. My hardops were much less. The new Camaro is a pig because it's built on a sedan chassis.

silplu83

iTrader: (5)

[QUOTE=BADD *** VHO;11677204]A new C6 starts at $49xxx.

427C5

You're quoting internet numbers.
I ALREADY PURCHASED my NEW C6 for $39.9.
Please don't try to argue fact.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

[/QUOTE]
the weight does suck... but all the cars it is "competing with weigh about the same... its right on par with what it should be... keep in mind, the LAST competitor they want is the camaro/vette...

it cracked me up...

im not saying everyone... im saying one.. thats all it takes, just like with cobras and fbodys... cobras weigh close to the same and make about the same power.. i dont see why .4s wouldnt be very possible..

pure driver... when cobras came out people were running mid-high 13s at best... like i have stated, give it a few months and people cutting 2.0+ 60s will be hitting sub 2.0 60s.. think about it, most people that bought this werent coming from IRS GTOs IRS zo6s IRS cobras.. they came from muscle cars with solid rears..

and who would keep one stock.. i could care less what they do bone stock honestly.. but its all there is to talk about right now...
most 4th gens, not fully loaded vert ws6s.. weigh around 3400-3450... your right on for the new camaro.. so like i said.. 500-600 lbs depeding on options.. most ls1s never see 3600, unless its a vert with high options..
keep in mind though.. you cant compare it to the price of an fbody now at 10k$... compare it to when the fbody came out... an average fbody ran you a sticker price of around 32-36k... some a tad less some a tad more... so in all honesty, your getting an AMAZING deal when you look at inflation numbers and what not... much better than the 4th gens when they came out..
no, the can launch very good.. the few that have been seen at the track have had DRVIERS that cant launch THEIR CAR... again, just like the cobras when they came out.. IRS is not that much of a bitch to launch..
i HIGHLY disagree that the average time will be 13.1... at worst i think the avg. will be aound 12.7-12.8... its going to put an 8/10s difference in the two..
again.. think about it man.. everyone said this about cobras when they first came out.. only a handful have seen the track.. some may have never driven an IRS car, etc etc etc.. just give it a few months...
exactly!

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

i know plenty of people that would pick a camaro over a vette... and plenty that would do the opposite...

its just preference..

why do people pick civics over 4th gens when they cost about the same!?!?!?!

BADD ASS VHO

You said the truth..buy what you like and fu#% what everyone thinks.The guy with the civic probably thinks we are the idiot's but in his preference he's right...I buy what i like... it's my money...you dont like my camaro then fu%# ur vette....even know im a die hard gm guy..Alright i love the new vette's..there baddass but i like the camaro a little more right now...my preference my choice

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

nicely put... harsh, but nice...

silplu83

iTrader: (5)

Your "fact" is skewed, comparing out the door prices is stupid and illogical. One dealer will be willing to deal more than another. The only constant is going by sticker pricing. Of course you are going to get a deal on a new C6, no one wants that car right now. The style is 5 years old and the Camaro is the hot ticket on the block.

Crimsonnaire

iTrader: (1)

Was this the LS3 or LS7 SS? I thought the SS was only gonna come with the LS7, but they're all listed as LS3 on eBay.

darrensls1

I thought Cobras were 3800 lbs. And i've heard the conservative tuning makes these cars even harder to launch then the Cobras. Every thread I have read about someone taking thier 2010 Camaro to the track has had two things in common. One is they were somewhere in the 13's and two is they had bad 60's.

It's not pure drivers. It's IRS, 20" street tires and stock tuning. That plus pulling 4000 lbs.

Being so new they are mostly stock. But we all know in 6 months everyone will have a CAI, exhaust and tuning

http://www.modernracer.com/pontiacfi...ransamws6.html

Trans Ams were around 3500 lbs with convertables just over 3600. Now if you had a stripper formula or Z28 then you were in the 3400-3450 range. But loaded TA's, WS6's and SS's would all be in the low 3500's.

No way. Z28's were low 20's. A fully optioned WS6 could have been had for $30K. Not to mention V6's were under 20K. Unless you sucked at haggling or were getting a special edition you should have been 30K or less for a new Fbody. People are paying 38K for a SS right now and others are paying $41K for a C6. For a few grand more the C6 is an obvious choice to me.

Street tires in general do not launch very well. 20" wheels with street tires makes it even worse. I Don't expect 1.8 60's anytime soon from a stock SS. Most drivers will be well above 2.0 because they are tough to launch without spinning or bogging.

Right now the average is around 13.5. I expect that to drop to low 13's as these cars break in. You got to remember that most people race in heat, have some elevation and spin with street tires. You seem to think there is a whole world of Evan Smiths out there and I assure you there is not. I know I don't see them at the track I go to.

Stop comparing the Cobra to the new Camaro. They are two totally different cars. The Camaro has a lot of potential. But it'll take tuning and tires for "most" drivers to get the most out of these cars. Right now I'm still seeing mid 13's from most of the threads where people have taken thier cars to the track.

CaseyEaterMach1

Everything I've seen seems to be pretty much on target with what I predicted these cars would run. I'd rate them to be about .5 faster that an LS1 4th gen. That pretty much makes sense considering the power to weight numbers 4th gen 3500lbs with 350hp 5th 3900Lbs 426hp. Once people get to know the new cars I'd say very low 13's will be the average with a decent amount of people pulling high 12’s. I however do not expect to see you average time dip into the mid 12’s it just isn’t going to happen with the power to weight ratio on 20 inch rims.

Problem is every car forum on the internet likes to bullshit average 1/4 mile times. I live in central NJ and have two sticky and low altitude tracks within 45 mins of me ATCO and E-Town. I see what cars run on average LS1 4th gens mid to high 13’s, Mach 1’s same thing, GTO’s high 13’s even with LS2 since most people can’t launch them, 03-04 Cobra’s low 13’s (I’m talking stocking for all the cars mentioned) However, if we asked an enthusiast sight we’d be told that that all these cars run low 13’s average and the cobra’s run mid 12’s. Truth is these cars are all very much capable of running a good .3-.5 faster than you see at the track but I’m talking averages here.

Just remember even the crappy mags are running 13 flat with the new Camaro while these same publications were running high 13’s with 4th gens. They’re faster and truthfully a better buy (in stock form) then any of the cars I mentioned if you consider what comes standard and the other prices are adjusted for inflation.

1320

iTrader: (6)

its sad.....but the reading this thread doesnt look good. The car is over weight. The g8 is better and less money. The vette is often less money and way better. People talk about inflation from the 4th gen to the 5th gen to justify teh cost....well the 04 ctsv was around 55k......the 09 blown ctsv....56k........

The new camaro was over 4000 according to wormboy with him in it. Thats heavy. Thats not a sports cars. Muscle car.....yea in what world? My bb ss396 chevelle was 3600. Most muscle cars were 3600 or less except the super poker olds and buicks. The 5th gen will fade quickly because nothing about it is very good. Its basically an h2.......just a package a good engine/trans comes in till it find s a better home somewhere else.

wicknewman

iTrader: (13)

Good points and well said.

For those thinking that we will see mid 12's out of stock 5th gens I would just say look at C6 LS3 stock times. I will not get in to average times, best times etc to start a flame war. A C6 is easily 500 pounds lighter (more than that but once again no one can argue 500 pounds). On average a 100 pounds for a tenth in the quarter and do the math.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

im trying to point out that people have his problem with just about EVERY car that comes out on the market... chargers, gtos, cobras, fbodys to an extent, etc etc etc.... the list goes on... like i said wait 6 months till you say it wont do something..
the cobra is doing the same thing.. just on a TAD bit smaller tire... im not comparing the cars... im giving another example of a car that "couldnt do a lot of things" when it came out.. now it can..
yes way... nobody ever knows the true price of these cars.. just cause they were cheap now, doesnt mean they were then.. i never saw a fully optioned ws6 for 30k... you cant put "haggling" in there, im talking sticker prices with no haggling.. the average for a full option ws6 would 34kish... little less little more depending on year.. do some research..
i dont expect it to be anytime soon either... they have years to get it right... all the other cars on the market did..
i dont race in the heat, insane altitude, or spin on street tires.. i know not eeryone is Smith.. and im taking that into consideration.. but come on, low 13s?

like said earlier, im not comparing.. im giving an example, just as i have with fbodys and so on..

the g8 is a better buy if thats what you want..
the vette, as said... is old news right now.. your comparing used prices and prices of things that have been sitting on lot for a year to things that people cant hardly get their hands on right now.
im not justifying the cost what so ever.. i think it is an AMAZING deal for what you get... much better than the fbody, so why would i justify it?
your comparing a 60k car with a 30k car..... (btw, i would take the camaro over it anyways)

what world? todays world.... look at the rest of the modern muscle.. they are right on par... and with the camaro being on top.. it may be heavier, but it has more power and is flat out faster handles better brakes better looks better, etc etc etc... its on top of the game right now.

silplu83

iTrader: (5)

Don't use this site as a source of 2010 Camaro info. Half the stuff in this thread is wrong plus this site is mostly full of guys who can't see anything wrong with the 4th gen or how much of an improvement the 5th gen is over it.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

well of course.... the 4th gen is gods gift to earth.. just like the lt1 was when it came out..

i wish people would open their eyes...

people said the same things about lt1s when they came out... then said how the ls1 didnt have a chance with an lt1... then nothing would ever compare to an ls1.... well guess what, it met its match... the camaro...

every single mag you pick up right now is CAMARO CAMARO CAMARO... beating this and beating that... v6 and v8 models.. and has a better testing price 90% of the time..
hell i even saw one where they were comparing it to a GT500 that runs a pitiful 12.7-12.8 or so...

the 4th gens suck *** compared to the 5th gen.. do they have their perks? yes... but as (lets just say) the sticker on a fbody was 30k and the sticker on a 5th gen is 35k... look at what you getting.. something faster, more mod friendly, more options, irs, way better braking, way better handling, better looks, the list goes on and on and on...