2010 SS at the track
06-01-2009, 04:39 PM
#61
I still think that we will see mid 12s from stock cars. Take all these low 13 second cars and let them run in the north east this fall and they will be high 12 second cars. When my Cobra was three days old I went 12.6@113 on the third pass. That car made 273 RWHP and was 3700 with me in it. The Camaro makes about the same power and is about 200 pounds more.
I say that in the fall we will see 12.6 @ 113 from a dead stock car.
I say that in the fall we will see 12.6 @ 113 from a dead stock car.
06-01-2009, 05:50 PM
#62
TECH Senior Member
its sad.....but the reading this thread doesnt look good. The car is over weight. The g8 is better and less money. The vette is often less money and way better. People talk about inflation from the 4th gen to the 5th gen to justify teh cost....well the 04 ctsv was around 55k......the 09 blown ctsv....56k........
The 04 CTS-V was $51,000 base, while the 09 CTS-V is $61,000 base.
The new camaro was over 4000 according to wormboy with him in it. Thats heavy. Thats not a sports cars.
06-01-2009, 06:30 PM
#63
11 Second Club
yes way... nobody ever knows the true price of these cars.. just cause they were cheap now, doesnt mean they were then.. i never saw a fully optioned ws6 for 30k... you cant put "haggling" in there, im talking sticker prices with no haggling.. the average for a full option ws6 would 34kish... little less little more depending on year.. do some research.
So don't tell me what I know
12.9-13.1 will be repectable times for this car given all the handicaps you have to deal with. 12.6-12.8 will be great times showing what good weather and a great driver can do. "IF" anyone hits a 12.4 it'll show what an Evan Smith clone can do with good DA.
Meantime I'll still be watching all the ones at my local track run low, mid and even high 13's. To me that's the difference between internet times and real world times. I know people have run 12.8-13.1 in stock LS1's. But I always see them run 13.4-13.8 in the real world. Unfortunately Evan Smith hasn't visited NYIRP when I was present
Last edited by darrensls1; 06-01-2009 at 06:36 PM.
06-01-2009, 06:55 PM
#64
How about you wait until one actually runs a 12.4 stock before you say it can run a 12.4 stock. Just an idea.
When the Cobra came out it was with a blower, didn't weigh 4000 lbs and didn't have 20" tires. People expected great things from that car and ultimately were not disappointed. Apples to Oranges IMO.
I did the best research there is. Back around 2000 or 2001 I was in a Pontiac dealership looking at the WS6 in the showroom. It had a sticker price of 31K and they were willing to negotiate. I also had a chevy dealership try to sell me a new Z28 for about 23K. I passed on that however and finally bought the Formula in my sig. I'm not saying some people didn't get ripped off and pay 34K. I'm saying the smart ones knew they didn't have too.
So don't tell me what I know
I race in whatever I have to in order to race. Now if it's ninety and humid I'm not going to the track. But if it's 80 I can either race and have fun or wait for September and be bored all summer.
12.9-13.1 will be repectable times for this car given all the handicaps you have to deal with. 12.6-12.8 will be great times showing what good weather and a great driver can do. "IF" anyone hits a 12.4 it'll show what an Evan Smith clone can do with good DA.
Meantime I'll still be watching all the ones at my local track run low, mid and even high 13's. To me that's the difference between internet times and real world times. I know people have run 12.8-13.1 in stock LS1's. But I always see them run 13.4-13.8 in the real world. Unfortunately Evan Smith hasn't visited NYIRP when I was present
When the Cobra came out it was with a blower, didn't weigh 4000 lbs and didn't have 20" tires. People expected great things from that car and ultimately were not disappointed. Apples to Oranges IMO.
I did the best research there is. Back around 2000 or 2001 I was in a Pontiac dealership looking at the WS6 in the showroom. It had a sticker price of 31K and they were willing to negotiate. I also had a chevy dealership try to sell me a new Z28 for about 23K. I passed on that however and finally bought the Formula in my sig. I'm not saying some people didn't get ripped off and pay 34K. I'm saying the smart ones knew they didn't have too.
So don't tell me what I know
I race in whatever I have to in order to race. Now if it's ninety and humid I'm not going to the track. But if it's 80 I can either race and have fun or wait for September and be bored all summer.
12.9-13.1 will be repectable times for this car given all the handicaps you have to deal with. 12.6-12.8 will be great times showing what good weather and a great driver can do. "IF" anyone hits a 12.4 it'll show what an Evan Smith clone can do with good DA.
Meantime I'll still be watching all the ones at my local track run low, mid and even high 13's. To me that's the difference between internet times and real world times. I know people have run 12.8-13.1 in stock LS1's. But I always see them run 13.4-13.8 in the real world. Unfortunately Evan Smith hasn't visited NYIRP when I was present
06-01-2009, 10:25 PM
#65
Congrats.
Agreed it's a good looking car. After all black, I think your combo is the best looking from the factory.
What do TBSS's really weigh at the track in both AWD and RWD trims?
Can you weigh and post your new Camaro SS as well to compare?
Thanks.
At least with the TBSS, you get 4 doors, a ton of room, and the option for AWD. I only wish it had the 4L60 or 4L80 from the factory and IRS.
The G8 is the only option I can stomach with the weight.
Agreed it's a good looking car. After all black, I think your combo is the best looking from the factory.
What do TBSS's really weigh at the track in both AWD and RWD trims?
Can you weigh and post your new Camaro SS as well to compare?
Thanks.
At least with the TBSS, you get 4 doors, a ton of room, and the option for AWD. I only wish it had the 4L60 or 4L80 from the factory and IRS.
The G8 is the only option I can stomach with the weight.
TBSS's weigh between 4760 (mine 2WD sunroof, pwr seats, loaded, the stripper ones are about 150lbs less) depending on the weight reduction, up to just over 5-5100lbs with driver's (180lbs & AWD Loaded TBSS)
Only complaint about the truck is it gets real bouncy cruising at speed on anything other than a wash board hwy. G8 can cruise at 120 and even on shitty road feel smooth, the TBSS is like a buggy on a cobblestone street lol.
06-01-2009, 11:38 PM
#66
How about you wait until one actually runs a 12.4 stock before you say it can run a 12.4 stock. Just an idea.
When the Cobra came out it was with a blower, didn't weigh 4000 lbs and didn't have 20" tires. People expected great things from that car and ultimately were not disappointed. Apples to Oranges IMO.
I did the best research there is. Back around 2000 or 2001 I was in a Pontiac dealership looking at the WS6 in the showroom. It had a sticker price of 31K and they were willing to negotiate. I also had a chevy dealership try to sell me a new Z28 for about 23K. I passed on that however and finally bought the Formula in my sig. I'm not saying some people didn't get ripped off and pay 34K. I'm saying the smart ones knew they didn't have too.
So don't tell me what I know
I race in whatever I have to in order to race. Now if it's ninety and humid I'm not going to the track. But if it's 80 I can either race and have fun or wait for September and be bored all summer.
12.9-13.1 will be repectable times for this car given all the handicaps you have to deal with. 12.6-12.8 will be great times showing what good weather and a great driver can do. "IF" anyone hits a 12.4 it'll show what an Evan Smith clone can do with good DA.
Meantime I'll still be watching all the ones at my local track run low, mid and even high 13's. To me that's the difference between internet times and real world times. I know people have run 12.8-13.1 in stock LS1's. But I always see them run 13.4-13.8 in the real world. Unfortunately Evan Smith hasn't visited NYIRP when I was present
When the Cobra came out it was with a blower, didn't weigh 4000 lbs and didn't have 20" tires. People expected great things from that car and ultimately were not disappointed. Apples to Oranges IMO.
I did the best research there is. Back around 2000 or 2001 I was in a Pontiac dealership looking at the WS6 in the showroom. It had a sticker price of 31K and they were willing to negotiate. I also had a chevy dealership try to sell me a new Z28 for about 23K. I passed on that however and finally bought the Formula in my sig. I'm not saying some people didn't get ripped off and pay 34K. I'm saying the smart ones knew they didn't have too.
So don't tell me what I know
I race in whatever I have to in order to race. Now if it's ninety and humid I'm not going to the track. But if it's 80 I can either race and have fun or wait for September and be bored all summer.
12.9-13.1 will be repectable times for this car given all the handicaps you have to deal with. 12.6-12.8 will be great times showing what good weather and a great driver can do. "IF" anyone hits a 12.4 it'll show what an Evan Smith clone can do with good DA.
Meantime I'll still be watching all the ones at my local track run low, mid and even high 13's. To me that's the difference between internet times and real world times. I know people have run 12.8-13.1 in stock LS1's. But I always see them run 13.4-13.8 in the real world. Unfortunately Evan Smith hasn't visited NYIRP when I was present
he summed up my response perfectly..
06-02-2009, 05:59 AM
#67
11 Second Club
That's your rebuttal? Did you run out of arguments for my logic?
We don't agree on 12.4 being easily obtainable, we don't agree on $34K Fbodies being normal, we don't agree on high 12 seconds being the "average" time for 2010 Camaros and we don't agree that the Cobra and the Camaro are basically the same.
We don't agree on much do we
I'm concerned with how much harder it is for any driver to get a good 60' and ET. The car is too heavy, too expensive and too hard to launch. I doubt 12's will ever be common place. Not because the car doesn't have the power (clearly it does) but because it's soo difficult to put that power to the ground.
That doesn't make it a bad car. It's a great street car. But it does make it a bad choice for drag racing at a track.
We don't agree on 12.4 being easily obtainable, we don't agree on $34K Fbodies being normal, we don't agree on high 12 seconds being the "average" time for 2010 Camaros and we don't agree that the Cobra and the Camaro are basically the same.
We don't agree on much do we
That doesn't make it a bad car. It's a great street car. But it does make it a bad choice for drag racing at a track.
Last edited by darrensls1; 06-02-2009 at 06:10 AM.
06-02-2009, 07:33 AM
#68
How about for those who want to stick with their 4th gen F-body but want the power of the 5th gen camaro and either don't want or can't afford to pay the full $38k for one to just spend a fraction of that amount upgrading their 4th gen to able to whip a stock 5gen camaro AND C6.
I know nothing about drag calculations, but I suspect even a stock LS2 thrown into a 4th gen F-body would make it up to par with the new Camaro.
I know nothing about drag calculations, but I suspect even a stock LS2 thrown into a 4th gen F-body would make it up to par with the new Camaro.
06-02-2009, 08:02 AM
#69
2010 Camaro SS at the track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxLlJi3tq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJrR8QI9iaQ
Still can't get over the styling of the 5th gen. I'd get it for a daily driver, but if I wanted a racer, I'd just go with the Vette for a little more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxLlJi3tq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJrR8QI9iaQ
Still can't get over the styling of the 5th gen. I'd get it for a daily driver, but if I wanted a racer, I'd just go with the Vette for a little more.
06-02-2009, 04:14 PM
#71
That's your rebuttal? Did you run out of arguments for my logic?
We don't agree on 12.4 being easily obtainable, we don't agree on $34K Fbodies being normal, we don't agree on high 12 seconds being the "average" time for 2010 Camaros and we don't agree that the Cobra and the Camaro are basically the same.
We don't agree on much do we
I'm concerned with how much harder it is for any driver to get a good 60' and ET. The car is too heavy, too expensive and too hard to launch. I doubt 12's will ever be common place. Not because the car doesn't have the power (clearly it does) but because it's soo difficult to put that power to the ground.
That doesn't make it a bad car. It's a great street car. But it does make it a bad choice for drag racing at a track.
We don't agree on 12.4 being easily obtainable, we don't agree on $34K Fbodies being normal, we don't agree on high 12 seconds being the "average" time for 2010 Camaros and we don't agree that the Cobra and the Camaro are basically the same.
We don't agree on much do we
I'm concerned with how much harder it is for any driver to get a good 60' and ET. The car is too heavy, too expensive and too hard to launch. I doubt 12's will ever be common place. Not because the car doesn't have the power (clearly it does) but because it's soo difficult to put that power to the ground.
That doesn't make it a bad car. It's a great street car. But it does make it a bad choice for drag racing at a track.
never once did i say 12.4 was easily attainable.. i said ONE 10 camaro will hit it... just like ONE cobra hit it, just like ONE fbody hit 12.8.. bit difference there.. i believe i remember you saying something like 31-32k? thats within 2k dollars... i said almost everything..
i have repeated myself over and over that the camaro and cobra have nothing in common on platforms.. their weight power cost and what was said about them when they very first hit the market was the same.. again big difference..
if you would pay attention this would be much easier and i wouldnt have to repeat myself 5-6 times...
too expensive? have you looked at the price of the other cars in its class? its one of the cheapest/fastest/best handling ones you can buy.. how is that over priced?
it has hits 112mph trap speeds.. it has the power and can hook it.. its the drivers that cant manage to do it right NOW... give it a few months so they can learn the/their car..
How about for those who want to stick with their 4th gen F-body but want the power of the 5th gen camaro and either don't want or can't afford to pay the full $38k for one to just spend a fraction of that amount upgrading their 4th gen to able to whip a stock 5gen camaro AND C6.
I know nothing about drag calculations, but I suspect even a stock LS2 thrown into a 4th gen F-body would make it up to par with the new Camaro.
I know nothing about drag calculations, but I suspect even a stock LS2 thrown into a 4th gen F-body would make it up to par with the new Camaro.
2010 Camaro SS at the track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxLlJi3tq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJrR8QI9iaQ
Still can't get over the styling of the 5th gen. I'd get it for a daily driver, but if I wanted a racer, I'd just go with the Vette for a little more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxLlJi3tq8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJrR8QI9iaQ
Still can't get over the styling of the 5th gen. I'd get it for a daily driver, but if I wanted a racer, I'd just go with the Vette for a little more.
06-02-2009, 04:48 PM
#72
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I saw my first 5th gen on the street. The front looks good. The rear...I'm not liking it. For 37k though, i would shop for a used GT500 or a 135i/335i.
They will get faster as time progresses though.
06-02-2009, 06:26 PM
#73
I ripped a 12.9@109 in my 02 Hawk.(345HP Package).So basically a t/a with lid and catback.
I saw my first 5th gen on the street. The front looks good. The rear...I'm not liking it. For 37k though, i would shop for a used GT500 or a 135i/335i.
They will get faster as time progresses though.
I saw my first 5th gen on the street. The front looks good. The rear...I'm not liking it. For 37k though, i would shop for a used GT500 or a 135i/335i.
They will get faster as time progresses though.
blah on the gt500... about the same speed only ones a mustang...
that you are right on!
06-03-2009, 01:29 AM
#76
you have fun throwing a cam in to beat a c6.... or bolt ons to beat a camaro.. im going to buy a c5z.... the fbodys are old news... dated.... even if it is as fast/faster.. who gives a ****? they are pieces of crap... and until someone rides in a *NICE* *FAST* car, they have no idea what its like..
My suggestion was directed towards those strictly looking for a faster 4th gen F-body to be able to compete with a 5th gen camaro at the track. Obviously, this hypothesis declares their preference for what they have regardless how outdated some may feel.
Besides, even if they are as bad as you say, they're evidently still fancy enough to have their driver's seat grace the buttocks of a car expert such as yourself. lol
Last edited by Crimsonnaire; 06-03-2009 at 01:39 AM.
06-03-2009, 07:35 AM
#77
11 Second Club
Camaro is not a Cobra even though they do both start with C
That was a miracle pass that would be hard pressed to ever be duplicated IMO. I'm sure the New Camaro will go quicker but I'm not sold on 12.4 like you are.
i have repeated myself over and over that the camaro and cobra have nothing in common on platforms.. their weight power cost and what was said about them when they very first hit the market was the same.. again big difference..
if you would pay attention this would be much easier and i wouldnt have to repeat myself 5-6 times...
if you would pay attention this would be much easier and i wouldnt have to repeat myself 5-6 times...
you have fun throwing a cam in to beat a c6.... or bolt ons to beat a camaro.. im going to buy a c5z.... the fbodys are old news... dated.... even if it is as fast/faster.. who gives a ****? they are pieces of crap... and until someone rides in a *NICE* *FAST* car, they have no idea what its like..
06-03-2009, 08:22 AM
#78
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06-03-2009, 08:34 AM
#79
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Not to mention it still has a solid rear. If you like drag racing, GT500>new SS.
06-03-2009, 02:37 PM
#80
TECH Senior Member
I wasn't aware that high 12s @111 was slower than low 13s @ 108... And 400hp is almost equal to 430hp?