motr was in engine fire!!!
02-25-2010, 07:16 PM
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motr was in engine fire!!! i recently bought a l76 from a 08 silverado w 1500 miles.. bad thing is it was in a fire and there are sum areas that have sum black from the fire.. was wondering best way to remove it.. w out pulling motor apart..looking for solvents, acids, home remedies.. anything to remove carbon from aluminum
02-26-2010, 12:37 PM
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02-26-2010, 08:23 PM
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wasnt really that bad.. only thing that got damaged was the crankshaft pulley, and the plastics up top.. motor just has a slight "charring" on the motor.. pressure was did not work..
heres a link of the motor http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/jameso1985/l76/
heres a link of the motor http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/jameso1985/l76/
Last edited by jameso1985; 02-26-2010 at 08:33 PM.
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02-26-2010, 11:23 PM
#8
I've been doing it for a little bit..
Most Aircraft fires burn at like 2500*..there is a video floating around of an Air Force C-141 that caught fire and was a molten pile of aluminum in under a minute. It caught in the right place and spread extremely fast, it was a total loss before the FD showed up.
Most Aircraft fires burn at like 2500*..there is a video floating around of an Air Force C-141 that caught fire and was a molten pile of aluminum in under a minute. It caught in the right place and spread extremely fast, it was a total loss before the FD showed up.
02-27-2010, 04:40 PM
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Aluminium is a strongly reactive metal that forms a high-energy chemical bond with oxygen. Compared to most other metals, it is difficult to extract from ore, such as bauxite, due to the energy required to reduce aluminium oxide (Al2O3). For example, direct reduction with carbon, as is used to produce iron, is not chemically possible, since aluminium is a stronger reducing agent than carbon. However there is an indirect carbothermic reduction possible by using carbon and Al2O3 which forms an intermediate Al4C3 and this can further yield aluminium metal at a temperature of 1900–2000°C. This process is still under development. This process costs less energy and yields less CO2 than the Hall-Héroult process.[19] Aluminium oxide has a melting point of about 2,000 °C (3,632 °F). Therefore, it must be extracted by electrolysis. In this process, the aluminium oxide is dissolved in molten cryolite and then reduced to the pure metal. The operational temperature of the reduction cells is around 950 to 980 °C (1,796 °F). Cryolite is found as a mineral in Greenland, but in industrial use it has been replaced by a synthetic substance. Cryolite is a chemical compound of aluminium, sodium, and calcium fluorides: (Na3AlF6). The aluminium oxide (a white powder) is obtained by refining bauxite in the Bayer process of Karl Bayer. (Previously, the Deville process was the predominant refining technology.)
Next?
I wouldn't want to see a pissing contest here, but I'll stick by what I said about firemen wanting to hose everything down. Cold water and aluminum castings do not go together; was what my point was. Yes, some of the plastic gets melted, but, I wouldn't rule out buying an engine that had come from a burnt car.
'Nuff said.
02-27-2010, 05:07 PM
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wasnt really that bad.. only thing that got damaged was the crankshaft pulley, and the plastics up top.. motor just has a slight "charring" on the motor.. pressure was did not work..
heres a link of the motor http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/jameso1985/l76/
heres a link of the motor http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/jameso1985/l76/
Saw your pictures, doesn't look that bad. Good score!
02-27-2010, 10:37 PM
#12
i had an LS1 that was in a fire, it got hot enough to melt the valve covers, also, i drained about 3 gallons of water out of the pan. after i got it tore apart, hot tanked and everything it looked brand new. on the bright side, i checked everything as far as warpage specs, and everything checked out good. even tho it was doused with cold water. i imagine everything isint as strong as it once was....but we will see. the heads off that car are going on my engine.
02-28-2010, 07:16 PM
#13
Can we compare apples with apples here. Your talking sheet aluminum, not casted aluminum. Try this out for size:
Aluminium is a strongly reactive metal that forms a high-energy chemical bond with oxygen. Compared to most other metals, it is difficult to extract from ore, such as bauxite, due to the energy required to reduce aluminium oxide (Al2O3). For example, direct reduction with carbon, as is used to produce iron, is not chemically possible, since aluminium is a stronger reducing agent than carbon. However there is an indirect carbothermic reduction possible by using carbon and Al2O3 which forms an intermediate Al4C3 and this can further yield aluminium metal at a temperature of 1900–2000°C. This process is still under development. This process costs less energy and yields less CO2 than the Hall-Héroult process.[19] Aluminium oxide has a melting point of about 2,000 °C (3,632 °F). Therefore, it must be extracted by electrolysis. In this process, the aluminium oxide is dissolved in molten cryolite and then reduced to the pure metal. The operational temperature of the reduction cells is around 950 to 980 °C (1,796 °F). Cryolite is found as a mineral in Greenland, but in industrial use it has been replaced by a synthetic substance. Cryolite is a chemical compound of aluminium, sodium, and calcium fluorides: (Na3AlF6). The aluminium oxide (a white powder) is obtained by refining bauxite in the Bayer process of Karl Bayer. (Previously, the Deville process was the predominant refining technology.)
Next?
I wouldn't want to see a pissing contest here, but I'll stick by what I said about firemen wanting to hose everything down. Cold water and aluminum castings do not go together; was what my point was. Yes, some of the plastic gets melted, but, I wouldn't rule out buying an engine that had come from a burnt car.
'Nuff said.
Aluminium is a strongly reactive metal that forms a high-energy chemical bond with oxygen. Compared to most other metals, it is difficult to extract from ore, such as bauxite, due to the energy required to reduce aluminium oxide (Al2O3). For example, direct reduction with carbon, as is used to produce iron, is not chemically possible, since aluminium is a stronger reducing agent than carbon. However there is an indirect carbothermic reduction possible by using carbon and Al2O3 which forms an intermediate Al4C3 and this can further yield aluminium metal at a temperature of 1900–2000°C. This process is still under development. This process costs less energy and yields less CO2 than the Hall-Héroult process.[19] Aluminium oxide has a melting point of about 2,000 °C (3,632 °F). Therefore, it must be extracted by electrolysis. In this process, the aluminium oxide is dissolved in molten cryolite and then reduced to the pure metal. The operational temperature of the reduction cells is around 950 to 980 °C (1,796 °F). Cryolite is found as a mineral in Greenland, but in industrial use it has been replaced by a synthetic substance. Cryolite is a chemical compound of aluminium, sodium, and calcium fluorides: (Na3AlF6). The aluminium oxide (a white powder) is obtained by refining bauxite in the Bayer process of Karl Bayer. (Previously, the Deville process was the predominant refining technology.)
Next?
I wouldn't want to see a pissing contest here, but I'll stick by what I said about firemen wanting to hose everything down. Cold water and aluminum castings do not go together; was what my point was. Yes, some of the plastic gets melted, but, I wouldn't rule out buying an engine that had come from a burnt car.
'Nuff said.
you copy/paste a random wikipedia excerpt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumini...and_refinement and yet you ignore the sidebar where it tells you the melting point of aluminum is 1220.58 F
02-28-2010, 08:51 PM
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yeah.. my valve covers look good.. nothing really melted.. the only thing was the oil cap tube on the valve covers.. all sensors were fine.. which leads me to believe the fire never reached anywhere near 1200 or whatever degree melts aluminum if the plastic sensors werent even burnt.. but thanx for the tips.. i cleaned the motor yesterday and and it looks GREAT.. heads came out looking brand new.. just need to do an acid clean on the block and ill b set.. thanx for the info guys.. now no more ***** swinging contests.. fire fuc^s stuff up.. especially motors.. BUT in order for a motor to reach that degree.. i would safely assume that it would need to be on fire for a very long time in order for it to reach 1200 degrees.. and IF that happened i dont think i would have purchased a fully charred motor... but all in all thanx guys
02-28-2010, 11:43 PM
#15
all the heavy smoke can cause etching/pitting of the block. i'd just watch for that when you're cleaning it. depending on the location, i imagine that would just be cosmetic damage considering your heads now look brand new.
i bought a fire salvaged tranny many years ago for another car. it had heavy smoke damage on the housing and even the tranny shop (who found it by calling around) thought it was fine. i guess the fire got hot enough to warp aluminum components inside and it didn't last very long before i brought it right back and had another one put in on warranty.
i bought a fire salvaged tranny many years ago for another car. it had heavy smoke damage on the housing and even the tranny shop (who found it by calling around) thought it was fine. i guess the fire got hot enough to warp aluminum components inside and it didn't last very long before i brought it right back and had another one put in on warranty.
03-01-2010, 04:03 AM
#16
Ya cause you just got 
It's good that you researched it, but atleast quote it properly.
You got busted out on it though and it made you look like a dumbass now..so that is the Kharma here.
I went off of my training..I see that the numbers I was taught are still accurate..lol
Yup..sheet Aluminum or cast..it all melts at the same. I popped a Thermite Grenade one time under the Hood of a Honda to demonstrate how fast you can melt the Engine and disable the Vehicle if you needed to with one..a majority of the Head and Block were in a puddle on the ground under it after about a minute.
My point was that there may be internal damage and the structural integrity will be less than it was..fires get hotter then people think, expecially with direct close proximity exposure to heat.
I'll quoted the post below to back my statement..
To the OP..just keep an eye on it, and get it checked for true and make sure everthing is still within tolerance.
Kinda the same thing with yours bww3588..hope it works out for ya..but keep an eye on it..just my opinion.
BobDole..good find sir..I'll drink to that..
It's good that you researched it, but atleast quote it properly.
You got busted out on it though and it made you look like a dumbass now..so that is the Kharma here.
I went off of my training..I see that the numbers I was taught are still accurate..lol
LOL.. i'm sure the op is pleased to be informed that cryolite is found as a mineral in greenland.
you copy/paste a random wikipedia excerpt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumini...and_refinement and yet you ignore the sidebar where it tells you the melting point of aluminum is 1220.58 F
you copy/paste a random wikipedia excerpt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumini...and_refinement and yet you ignore the sidebar where it tells you the melting point of aluminum is 1220.58 F
I'll quoted the post below to back my statement..
i bought a fire salvaged tranny many years ago for another car. it had heavy smoke damage on the housing and even the tranny shop (who found it by calling around) thought it was fine. i guess the fire got hot enough to warp aluminum components inside and it didn't last very long before i brought it right back and had another one put in on warranty.
Kinda the same thing with yours bww3588..hope it works out for ya..but keep an eye on it..just my opinion.
BobDole..good find sir..I'll drink to that..
03-01-2010, 04:17 AM
#17
What's wrong with us doing our job?
Trust me you aren't the only one that spews that crap though..I have heard it from other people..we bust our *** to save what's left of a house and stop the fire from spreading into the other house next door..and that person bitches cause their stuff got wet..they didn't bother to mention the smoke damage..which did MORE damage than the water. They are lucky to have what we saved.
The best one was this guy and his car that had caught on fire..we got on scene and had a car..fully involved, all glass melted. My crew started into the interior..got that fire knocked out, and then worked our way to the Engine Compartment which was still fully involved. We couldn't pop the Hood so I got a metal Pry-bar and poked a bunch of holes in the Radiator and smashed it all out so we could get water in there..and the guy who owned the car was bitching at me after cause I did that.
The car was a total loss..tires were melted by the time we got on scene..the objective we had was to put it out so the cars next to him didn't get damaged(protect exposures)..and he bitched cause I broke his Radiator.
I guess when you are mad cause your stuff gets burned up you have to find someone to take it out on..must be thats what the Fire Dept. is for..
Sorry for the off-topic..had to get that in there..felt it was necessary.
03-01-2010, 07:08 AM
#20
Merv if one of my engines catches fire, please dont spray it down. i wouldnt want you to warp the metal blades in the engine, id rather the whole aircraft burn down.......