The Black Mamba

What is needed to convert the LS Series engines to run on E85?

*I was thinking of pairing this with a 408.

transam45

iTrader: (2)

e85 ? ethonal ?

The Black Mamba

Yes. On average, it is $0.30 cheaper per gallon than premium(91) around here. I've also heard it is right at 100octane, so I was thinking maybe I could run bigger numbers on the street with it over premium, and it would actually be better for the engine.

1994Z28Lt1

iTrader: (1)

well in order to do that you would need to make sure your fuel tank and fuel lines and the entire system was compatible with E85 because it is quite a bit more corrosive that regular gasoline, you would also need much larger fuel injectors and a larger fuel pump because the demands for e85 is a lot higher you need a lot more of it. the ideal ratio is around 9:1 instead of 14.7:1 for pure gasoline.

another thing you would have to think about is how readily available is it around you because you would need to be tuned for it, which also causes a problem if you were to put regular gas back in it. The new vehicles have an optical sensor in the fuel line that can sense the percentage of E85 in the system which adjusts the target air/fuel ratio. so you would either need to go with a set up like that or you would need a PCM with the ability to change from an E85 and a gasoline tune. this would also mean you would probably need a wideband oxygen sensor setup

405dave

30 cents a gallon "sounds" good but you should know alcohol has 1/3 less energy per gallon than gas. Meaning if your moped gets 100mpg on gas it will only get 70mpg on alcohol. So do the math on the 30 cents and don't forget to add the conversion cost.

20SS07

Yea you will get worse fuel economy on E85. E85 is a joke in my opinion. It may be cheaper at the pump as you say ( I wouldn't know there aren't any E85 stations near me) but you're gonna make up the difference in what you're paying extra for milk and corn and all that stuff since the production of E85 is cutting into that now and raising those prices. It's not any better for the environment in the long run and IMO isn't much worth any gains you would get.

zebradz28

e85 is around 105-107 octane, you have to use 30% more compared to regular gas, also factor in how much cheaper than regular gas, if .30 cheaper it may be worth it it may not it all depends on how much regular gas is because you could end up spending more with e85 than regular gas

The Black Mamba

Okay, here's the deal. I am putting this in a car I am building up from scratch. It will be having either a 408 or 418 in it, with a brand new fuel system(including tank). The engine hasn't been built yet, but I am probably going to be ordering the shortblock parts within the next month or so. This isn't going to be a street car at all. It will be a cruiser that gets taken out on hot nights for some good cruisin action and to the drag strip occassionally.

Would E85 be the best way to go for it? I'm not too concerned about gas mileage. I have an accord for that...

green28

iTrader: (8)

I say go for it if the start up cost for the conversion isn't too much. The fact that it will be a performance car and not an everyday driver and the higher octane gains from the E85 outway the loss in fuel mileage compared to premium gas.

ICEMAN 31

You do know that the more we use it the more expensive it will get right, a gallon of it will eventually cost a ton more than gas.

ghardester

**** for brains would be my guess.

white02ws6

iTrader: (7)

for a toy it really makes sense. as was stated earlier it is about 106 octane...have you priced c12 lately? i know its around 10 a gallon...so thats a more fair comparison. even 100 octane unleaded is around 4 a gallon. so you can run higher compression and not worry about using 93. if it is available in your area i say go for it. since its a fresh build you are going to be spending the money anyway and you cant beat race gas you can get at the pump. if it was a daily driver i wouldn't but you are in the best situation to do it. if you decide you don't like it and you CR isn't 12-1 then you can always retune and run pump gas again. (cant use e85 in a normal fuel system, but you can use normal gas in a system set up for e85)

IFRYRCE

iTrader: (3)

Buy HPtuners, keep two tunes saved. Switch when necessary. Repeat.

But while we're on the subject, I've tuned an 07 Yukon and an 07 TBSS recently, and both had options in HPtuners to turn FlexFuel on and off, and Displacement-on-Demand on and off. All the necessary tables were there to run on gas, ethanol, or any combination in-between.

Anybody know about this? Are the vehicles missing the sensors/provisions for those, or does GM just not turn them on so that they can charge for it as an option.
And it'll get cheaper as more use it, not more expensive. New methods (cellulose) of producing ethanol lead to higher efficiency. You get more energy out of the process than you put into making it (unlike Hydrogen from water). Basically, the only reason it's as expensive as normal gas now is because it's 'exclusive,' so to speak. I mean, you can make ethanol from SWITCHGRASS, for chrissake. If you really think it'll get more expensive as more people use it, take a look at Brazil and come back.

fil131

iTrader: (2)

I dont know if anyone is still watching this thread, but I've read that there is no conversion needed for our cars, just tuning and bigger injectors, and maybe a higher flowing fuel pump.

The newer cars that do not have metal tanks I think.

I may be wrong but this is what I have read.

nesikachad

Sorry, but your incorrect on the corrosion thing.

METHANOL is corrosive as hell.

Ethanol is not bad at all.

Now, what ALL alky fuels have in common is that they are water magnets. This means don't run around with 1/4 tanks of fuel all the time. The condensation during cold season can cause some hate and discontent.

I'm also pondering this change in my blown/nitroused/meth'd LS1 GTO.


Talking with a tune shop they said its basically a bump to bigger injectors, a more aggressive fuel pump, and changing over all the fuel and ignition curves.

E85 is a bad *** fuel for pissed off street cars. The octane is through the roof for pennies on the dollar compared to premium racing gasoline.

The guts in your motor will run cleaner, emissions are lower, and the fuel economy is right there with gas too.

Especially if you are rebuilding the engine because you can run the CR up a good full point without worry of ping and rattle.

I live in SD which is blessed with having one of the highest concentrations of E85 stations in the country.

Cost is probably around a thousand bucks by the time you are all done.

The fuel mixtures will change significantly.

Gas is around 12:1

E85 is at about 9:1

These are rough numbers so don't flame me too bad.

Good luck man. You'll love it!

fil131

iTrader: (2)

I also want to stress that people need to stop comparing E85 to regular pump gas.

If you are going to compare prices compare E85 to Trick fuels 101 or 110. E85 runs a couple of bucks and the trick fuel will be $6+ to $7.50+

Yes if you are going to run a daily driver and not tune your car for most performance per octane then E85 may not be for you, unless you just want to help the consumtion of petro. But even daily drivers who have their cars tuned for the most outta every octane will be able to run race fuel octane at a fraction of the price.

The Black Mamba

Woot, didn't know anybody bumped up this thread. So, just changing lines, injectors, and fuel pump is basically all that is needed to run e85?

johnny Boost

I'm putting together a LM7 high compression engine. I haven't gotten the PCM yet and was wondering would it be worth it or needed to get the L59 Flex Fuel PCM? Would/do I need any sort of sensors to tell the computer I've got E85 in the mix?